Vehicles Turning issues

[GAZ NZ]

Hey Battlefront

Ive been noticing vehicles are not moving as I'm directing them to with the movement plots.

I had in my current game for example a plot to move a vehicle forward on slight angle slightly right then straighten up

The HT has plenty of space

he decides to go forward as i plotted and then turns 180 right and move into a hedgerow - get stuck and then do a 360 turn

Its actually making the game unplayable with armour and vehicles

This happened pre the recent patch and I thought was a one off but ive seen happen to many times since with vehicles just doing bizzare movements.

Is this a known problem?

The precise movement of armour can be really important

and as a result my support HT instead of lining up a shot on his light armour is being shot at as he is exposed sideways as it sits and trys to do a 360 turn in a hedge row which it was never near originally but decided to go towards.

Its just absurd. Its like you plot movements then the crew drink all the snapps in Germany and do what they want.

With the lack of armour in my game this could potentially lose the game for me.

[Duriel Krugaire]

Use more points when turning, like every 5 ft may help.

But the driving is just crazy, especially if there is more than one vehicle involved. They should have the AI determine an order if the vehicles are within 30 feet of each other, then just take their turn.

[Vanir Ausf B]

What type of terrain was the vehicle in, or more importantly, what type was he ordered to cross? I don't know for sure, but it seems to me there has been a change in that vehicles will not cross light forest terrain, and possible similar types, unless you put the movement point in action spot containing that terrain. If the movement points are in open terrain action spots that have the rough terrain between them the vehicle will try to drive around, even if this means traveling a much farther distance.

If this isn't the issue then I have no idea. I have had no problem with vehicles turning.

[GAZ NZ]

It was grass and road

forest to the left and hedge to the far right

he was away from both

I try to keep them as far away form terrain as possible

I noticed this playing RT as well

its not consistent - ie doing this every time you do moves but will happen and usually when you don't want it to.

I noticed in RT some small trees my tank would normally crush down moving into it

my pziv veered wide of some and went through others and went wider then i asked it to

your trying to keep tanks in cover but they go further out when they move

The problem is Tanks should always be used in assault moving forward but in this game moving them can be problematic and they can stuff up if they clip terrain.

Sometimes i feel the game forces us to use them defensively

Its just been recently and I'm wondering has something be changed in the last few patches?

[Vanir Ausf B]

You're going to have to upload a save game. I've never seen anything like what you describe and I play every day (although recently it's been CMBS rather than CMBN)

[GAZ NZ]

I have none saved at the end of a plot

ill consider saving to show in the future

[JoMac]

My guess is that he is giving very short way-points ( which appears under the vehicle ) and not noticable to the player.

This will in affect make the Vehicle appear to be slowely turning in circules.

Try using slightly bigger way-points that are noticable out from under the Vehicle, say 5 meters minimum. This may require you to look Top-Down on the Battlefield to better see it.

I tend to make short way-points anywhere from 5-10 meters apart.

Joe

[Duriel Krugaire]

Vehicle movements are terrible.

[womble]

Vehicle movements are terrible.

Sure they are. Completely unhandlable. Yeah.

Note for the hard of thinking: the above comment is composed 100% of sarcasm.

What's your agenda, Krugaire? You just want to troll? Or are you actively attempting to bash the game? Or are you just ignorant? Because you're going the wrong way about getting some help with that last.

[GAZ NZ]

And on the same game im playing and ive saved it a sniper team plotted to go backward and sideways are still moving forward. Seems to be locked in that movement.

Ill send it to BF for comment as its a PBM with passwords.

Has happened on RT as well.

Yeah could be vehicle plots needing space but ive never had trouble with that before.

I do not recall issues with that and CMBO lol

[Duriel Krugaire]

Typical movement problems with vehicles.

I have 3 tanks, I order them to go forward, through a hedgerow gate & up the alley.

clear day, out of contact, just arrived as support

they spend 1 turn fighting over who is going through the gate first, one makes it.

next turn the last 2 fight, none make it.

next turn one makes it headed the wrong direction, take the rest of the turn turning around and blocking the gate.

next turn the last one goes through, then across the alley and through the adj gate & is headed up the wrong side of the other hedgerow.

I don't think I am bashing, just reporting my observations. Where did I ever bash the game?

Your saying this has never happened to you?

[JoMac]

I could understand your frustration, but spacing out 'Pause' Orders to each vehicle will elivate many of those problems.

[Duriel Krugaire]

I did pause them 15 seconds apart, the first gate was 400 yds away. They were spaced out until they got to the gate.

[A Canadian Cat]

Since it seems like you are not trying to troll...

Please do not take offense to people being offended by your initial comment. Think about it: you, initially gave no indication what was going on, how could anyone help you without knowing what the problem is?

OK, enough of that, on to something hopefully helpful.

The issue is that vehicles, when they bunch up, do a "you, go, no I'll go, no you go..." dance that is really annoying. The key and most important thing is to make sure they never get into that situation. Most of the time in the open areas they do an OK job of pausing for moment and letting the lead vehicle get going again. But too many vehicles or an obstacle like a gate can trigger a mess.

If you get into that situation here is what you can do. In your example, after the first turn when the first tank has gone through here is what you can do in the future for the two that are doing the dance:

1. Cancel all their move orders - yep all of them
   
2. Pick the vehicles that seems to have the lead and give it move orders through the gate
   
3. Give a reverse order for the other one to get it out of the way
   
4. Add a pause on the first one to allow the second one to reverse out of the way
   
5. Now you can put a long 30s pause on the end of the second tank's reverse order and plot its move forward through the gate again.
   

That should result in one tank getting out of the way and waiting. The wait should be long enough to let the first tank get mostly through the game. If you feel like my suggested pauses are not long enough - add more. If you feel like my suggested pauses are too short - reduce them at your peril

The best way to avoid trouble is to not get into trouble in the first place or at least intervene before it gets bad. Check this short video I made for convoy management

Bridges can be like gates - causing a bottle neck and slow downs. So once I have orders for a convoy every turn I will have a quick look and watch out for any bunching and add some pauses to prevent the jam dance. The same will go for your three tanks. One tank might slow down briefly over sightly different terrain allowing the others to catchup. Or occasionally the path finding system will do something slightly sub optimal and your tank might slow down a bit - again allowing the others to catch up.

If you setup good spacing and monitor each turn you can avoid ever seeing the jam dance again. I have not seen it since that first time I tried to get two companies of Shermans to drive through two gaps in the bocage just with simple go into that field orders. Now that was one crazy jammed up mess.

[Duriel Krugaire]

I am just getting back into CM.

I experimented a little.

Originally I had the tanks running fast over a wide open field and angled them through the gate into the alley (actually a bocade, two rows, 'alley' is shorter term). I was hoping they would hit the gate wide open & blast through. They were way spread out on fast but closed an bunched quickly, ended up a mess. They don't blast through!

Solution, similar to yours.

Bring the tanks up at fast, put a move marker right before & right after the obstacle to align the tank up, then left turn hard way up the alley. The first turn, first tank makes it through, bunching the following tanks up into the 'me first' duel. after the turn, I just paused one of the tanks about 30 seconds (the one farthest from the gate). It worked.

[A Canadian Cat]

Yep that will do it. Problem solved. First you have to learn that this is an issue you need to play attention to, after that you can mitigate it very well.

[Warts 'n' all]

If you really want to experience one hell of a traffic jam try playing the battle "Ubique" as the British. It is hard enough trying to move your vehicles let alone keeping an eye out for the Germans.

And I certainly agree it really does pay if you monitor your vehicles each and every turn.

[Skwabie]

On the rare chance this does happen.

Add an extra waypoint. Or add more for good measure.

And to avoid traffic jams, use 15 seconds pause intervals before their movements. If vehicle is mobility limited (like Half tracks) or on rough terrain extend pause to 20secs.

Just some basics I reckon.

[womble]

Nice diagrams, Skwabie.

A refinement to the second "solution to the problem" one, might be to make the extra waypoint a Slow move, especially for things with big turning circles like trucks and halfies.

Maybe one day we'll be able to add waypoints to movement paths in between existing ones (so we won't have to drag all the following WP back one bound if we want to make a change in the middle..)

A refinement to the last that I find helpful is to have each vehicle in the queue Slow move to the position of the first one when they do eventually get going.

[Warts 'n' all]

Very helpful diagrams.

I try to use "Pause" commands when handling "Convoys" of vehicles, and try to keep in mind the different speeds that vehicles travel at. And bear in mind that turning circles will vary from vehicle type to vehicle type.

I think that "Ubique" is something of a "one-off" as a traffic jam inducing battle, at least, I hope it is.

[c3k]

Skwabie has it.

Additionally, at a chokepoint like a bocage gap, a waypoint at each side of the chokepoint helps.

[Skwabie]

Thanks gents. I think the guideline is AI is dumb on vehicle pathing and player control is always preferred... Really wish CM one day has co-op so we can share more on these subjects with a purpose.

[A Canadian Cat]

Agreed awesome diagrams. I made a slight refinement to show how I take corners. See the orange and mustard colours added.

Also 15s between vehicles is pretty long. I try to use 5s pauses - when there is already 20m-30m of separation 10s if they are too close together. I guess I push it a bit because I don't want the lead vehicle to arrive in a dangerous area all by itself. I want help to be closer.

[Skwabie]

^nice one ian.leslie. I like reading these player tactics, more please if anyone's got it.

[womble]

On curving roads (or, at least, as curving as roads in CM get), I (think I) get mileage out of plotting movement paths on "racing lines", approaching corners on the "outside" of the turn, putting a waypoint on the "inside" of the bend at the apex and then the exiting waypoint on the outside again. It reduces the radius of turn needed, and can mean speed is maintained. Care needs to be taken not to get too close to the edge of paved roads, of course, but I don't get many "straying" vehicles.

It's worth, I think, being clear that vehicles and infantry have diametrically opposite pathing behaviours. Vehicles will mostly go in straight lines along the path you draw, with some deviation to attempt to make turns practicable, and radical deviation if an impassable obstacle (another vehicle, impassable terrain) is detected within a few metres. Whereas infantry will take the "path of least resistance", unless you force them to stay in rough terrain with short movement bounds (or the rough terrain is large enough that they'll take longer, going the "easy way").