A new players questions

[chohan85]

Hello all and greetings from Pakistan.

ok now i do play a lot of WW2 based games and i am not one of those COH types players.. my fav game has always been the men of war series so you can get an idea that i am not a complete arcade players. even played close combat quite a bit few years back.

anyways i was looking around and stumbled upon this game but i got a few questions before i move towards purchasing it, i hope you people can help me with it.

i have gone through the gameplay videos and got a lot of interest in the game..

1. user made missions: yes i know their is a mod sections but mostly i see unit modeling over their. so my question is is their a central place from where i can download user made missions?

2. Multiplayer: does the game have it? how active is it (in case their is one)

Now this is the most important one

3. Pirce: ummmm if i am not wrong the game will cost me $75 (base CMBN+UI 2.0+market garden expansion). is it really so? the reason i am asking is that the game is quite old (couple of years i think) so why still the high prices? also is their an alternative to purchasing from the website? ie. purchasing it from some other website at a cheaper rate.

4. Game developmenet: what are the future stuf for it?

thanks in advance guys

[Doug Williams]

Hello and welcome.

(1) I'll let someone else answer, because I don't download very many user made scenarios.

(2) Yes, the game has two kinds of multiplayer, PBEM (file exchanges) and TCP/IP. PBEM is something of a misnomer, because hardly anyone that I know of uses e-mail attachments for the file exchanges any longer. Most everyone these days use a shared Dropbox folder, and many players use a free app called CM Helper which is very helpful when you are playing multiple PBEMs.

As to how active the multiplayer scene is, I would say very active. The majority of my games are multiplayer and I seldom play against the AI any longer. Best thing to do is join a club so you can find reliable opponents, play in tourneys, etc.

Sorry, but I still haven't tried TCP/IP (live) CM yet, mostly because my free time doesn't come in large enough "chunks" to devote to long games.

(3) Actually, if you want everything released so far for CMBN, it will cost $95 and the best deal is the "Big Bundle", which includes CMBN, both the Commonwealth and Market Garden Modules, and the 2.0 upgrade. Yep, that's a big chunk to invest, so be sure to play the free demo first.

Keep in mind that BFC is an independent developer and they cater to a niche market. Also keep in mind that even though CMBN is a couple of years old, they are keeping it "fresh" and up to date with new modules and engine upgrades. The 3.0 upgrade is due out any time now, and yes, it will cost an additional $10.

If you buy and enjoy the CM games, you may find, like many of us, that the amount of entertainment "bang for your buck" that you get from these games will be very high. Most computer games that I purchase I play once or twice then delete. I have played CMBN almost every day since the day it was released. It never gets old, because there is always something new to do, some new scenario to play, some new quick battle to try with a new or old opponent, or some new tourney is starting.

(4) There is new content planned for CMBN and CMFI. CMRT (east front) was recently released and I'm sure there will be new content released for it. There is also a new modern era CM that should be released "soon".

[chohan85]

great thanks for clearing it up..

well men of war and a couple of ther games are for neich as well...so i dont mind getting them..i was only worried cause i dont want to find out that the games development has stopped and it has a massive price drop all of a sudden thats why i asked

also thanks for clearing up the MP part..

[womble]

Hello all and greetings from Pakistan.

Hello to you too. I think you may be the first to surface from that part of the world, here on these forums! So doubly welcome!

ok now i do play a lot of WW2 based games and i am not one of those COH types players.. my fav game has always been the men of war series so you can get an idea that i am not a complete arcade players. even played close combat quite a bit few years back.

A lot of the regulars here have played and enjoyed Close Combat.

1. user made missions: yes i know their is a mod sections but mostly i see unit modeling over their. so my question is is their a central place from where i can download user made missions?

There's the BFC "Repository", which is the most "central" place. There are others, too, which might be easier to use and/or have a different selection of scenarios.

2. Multiplayer: does the game have it? how active is it (in case their is one)

As Doug Williams says, there are two modes. A new development in the Red Thunder family (which will be incorporated into BN when the v3 upgrade is made available for that family - more about "families" later) is the "TCP/IP WeGo" which is a half way house between Real Time and WeGo: you're both on line at the same time, directly connected, and each give your orders simultaneously in the order phase at the beginning of each minute. I should stress that they're all strictly one vs one modes as designed. There are ways to work in teams on one side or another, in WeGo, but that's not the original design intention and you have to adopt your own methodologies to enable cooperation on one or both sides. You shouldn't find any problem getting opponents.

3. Pirce: ummmm if i am not wrong the game will cost me $75 (base CMBN+UI 2.0+market garden expansion). is it really so? the reason i am asking is that the game is quite old (couple of years i think) so why still the high prices? also is their an alternative to purchasing from the website? ie. purchasing it from some other website at a cheaper rate.

It does seem like a lot at first sight. However, you get a lot. This is not some 30-60 hour game; you will be able to sink thousands of hours into it, given the opportunity. While Battle for Normandy was released more than 3 years ago, the engine was updated 18 months ago, and is in the process of being updated again to version 3. As significant upgrades, BFC charge a nominal fee for these ($10 for the v2 upgrade). There was some talk of the "base BN" game being ratcheted up to v2 once v3 is out, but I don't know what came of that.

4. Game developmenet: what are the future stuf for it?

First, just to be sure you know what I mean, a quick digression into how BFC structures its products.

Their line is divided up into "Families". Each "Family" of games has a base game, and may have additional releases of Modules (which can extend the timeline the family covers and add unit types and terrain and scenarios and Tables of Organisation and Equipment, and usually have a campaign or two using the additional assets) and potetntially "Packs" which tend to only have units and the necessary TO&E to incorporate them into the game where they "ought" to be. We've not had a Pack yet, so how it differs from a Module is not fully defined.

The "engine" for each Family receives patches to fix "broken things", and these are free of charge. As major new developments are created, the stated intent of BFC is to release chargeable upgrades for existing game families. Their whole coding structure was set up with that incremental improvability in mind.

So, we have, for WW2:

The Normandy Family - Base game is CMBN (covers the Normandy theatre with Americans and a selection of German unit types until August. It's had CW (same time scale and location; adds "Commonwealth" troops and various German formations) and MG (extends time line to the end of September and adds some more German formations; includes the Allied formations needed for Market Garden, but if you want all the Allied stuff, you need CW as well), and numerous patches, and the upgrade for v2. We anticipate at least a pack for it; I've lost track of how certain it is that the rest of the war in the west (to VE day) will be a separate family (CM Battle for the Bulge or something like) - it might just be another module for BN... We also expect the imminent arrival of the v3 upgrade.

Then there's the Italy family (base game CMFI), which has some patches and one module so far: Gustav Line. We're expecting another module to take that to the end of the war, and I'm sure there's some potential for a pack. Again, there's the upgrade to the latest version of the engine expected, which will make CMFI v2.x

Most recently, there's the Bagration family, base game CMRT. There will be modules to take that to the end of the war and probably packs, because there was a broad variety of nations and equipment used on the Ostfront.

So each existing family has some additional content to come. The next new family is probably going to be the "modern war in the Ukraine" one that we've had a sneak-peek at the alpha of on Twitch by ChrisND. We're expecting new families to step backwards a year at a time towards Barbarossa, but those aren't anywhere near.

This might seem a daunting prospect, particularly when you think that each completed family is going to set you back maybe $100, but actually, unless you really play the heck out of the thing, you don't need anything more than one family. That should be plenty to keep you out of trouble for years to come, and will be kept up to date (via paid upgrade, but nowhere near as expensive as buying a new game like most studios would require).

[Doug Williams]

i dont mind getting them..i was only worried cause i dont want to find out that the games development has stopped and it has a massive price drop all of a sudden thats why i asked.

Not much chance of that. The Combat Mission series is BFC's cash cow and, thanks to us, I very much doubt they are going to abandon it any time soon. I predict, by the power of my Magic 8 Ball, that Combat Mission will be around for many more years.

[womble]

[scurrilous rumour = start]

Unless they've hit heinous problems getting FI and BN upgraded to v3, and have decided to call it a day rather than beat the code into submission.

[scurrilous rumour = end]

This post is brought to you only to scandalise and amuse... There's no basis but our deepest darkest fears for the outrageous calumny, which is not even tinged with any serious intent.

[DaddyO]

[scurrilous rumour = start]

Unless they've hit heinous problems getting FI and BN upgraded to v3, and have decided to call it a day rather than beat the code into submission.

[scurrilous rumour = end]

This post is brought to you only to scandalise and amuse... There's no basis but our deepest darkest fears for the outrageous calumny, which is not even tinged with any serious intent.

Scurrilous is as scurrilous does.

[sfhand]

Welcome!

A little reality check... be prepared to buy everything once you get bitten by the bug! With that in mind, I recommend starting with the free demo(s) (check out the demos for CMFI and CMRT as well as the CMSF demos). Play the Hell out of them in an attempt to familiarize yourself with the features and limitations of the game engine (you can also see the evolution of the game engine from title to title). Stop by the various forums here and read some AAR's and other musings about gameplay. Since the cash outlay is comparatively steep (I've been buying non-CM titles only when on sale) take advantage of the demos and the experiences of others. It shouldn't take too long to realize the CM experience is without equal.

[chohan85]

thanks a lot guys..yes i have gone through the demo and alot of more videos which has started to gain my attention much. so this is what i am thinking to do right now

Buy just the base game for $35. what will i be missing by just having the base game?

then save up more and buy the version 2.0+market garden in a month or two (hoping that the next version comes out and the price of 2.0 comes down more, hehe)

[c3k]

Base Game only (CM:BN, "Beyond Normandy") is very good.

CMBN base received a significant upgrade with version 2 of the engine. Personally, I'd think skipping the v2 upgrade would not be the best way of going purchasing the game. However, only you know what your true budget is. Read the list of changes for the v2 upgrade: ("Upgrade" adds new features. "Patch" fixes problems.)

V2 new features:

=Moveable Waypoints

=Ability to assign special uniform types for select units types on a unit by unit basis.

=Target Armor Arc Command

=Expanded Floating Icon Categories

="Fog of War" Floating Icons

=2D Editor Map Overlay

=Auto-Assemble Road/Wall/Hedge Tool

=Camera Jump to Groups

=Target Briefly Command

=New Rendering Shaders

=Bump and Normal Mapping

=Improved Framerates

=Pausable Realtime TCP/IP Mode

=...and more!

The v2.0 Upgrade is not a standalone game. You need to own the base game, Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy, patched to v1.11 in order to play. The 2.0 Upgrade is not a patch. It adds exciting new features to your game. It's available for download, mail order or both starting at just $10 (plus Shipping & Handling if applicable).

Upgrading to V2 allows you to apply the V2.01 patch:

New 2.01 Feature List

* Corrected issues with deploying MGs in buildings.

* Soldiers fire weapons faster at short ranges, especially Garand rifles.

* Small arms fire causes more suppression than before.

* General improvements to MG performance behavior. See note below this list for more information.

* Sandbags, wire, foxholes, hedgehogs, and trenches are correctly treated as "lower down" for spotting purposes.

* Pistol accuracy slightly reduced.

* BAR range increased to 800m.

* Shaders optimized for nVidia and ATI.

* Moving a mortar even a short distance causes greater loss of target acquisition.

* Bunker-mounted MGs are more accurate than before.

* SS leaders have correct poncho camouflage pattern.

* Corrected an accuracy problem with on-map indirect fire.

* Crews bailed out of destroyed vehicles have more jittery morale.

* Corrected a vehicle navigation problem on bridges.

* Target line for area fire is slightly thicker to differentiate it.

* Shooting at bunkers from very short range works better.

* Daimler SOD given a mounted Bren LMG.

* Fixed a bug causing immobilized MG teams after dismounting from MG bunkers.

* Purple "pop smoke" target line goes away when it should.

* Better small-arms aiming at unarmored vehicles.

* Minor TO&E fixes.

* Fixed a bug that occasionally caused weapons crews to move back to an old position when deploying their weapon.

* Fixed a bug that caused some Macs to crash while loading scenarios

Getting the V2 upgrade (and patching it) is the obvious solution, to me. (Remember, the CMBN v1.00 has to be patched to v1.11 before applying V2. See the instructions.)

Ken

[womble]

Like computers, buy the best you can, at the point you decide you're going to buy. I'd say that the upgrade to v2 is very much worth the $10, but the base game without it will keep you going for ages. The impression I got last time Steve talked about it, was that v2 will only get "cheaper" when they roll it into the base game, and that still hasn't been confirmed. So, if you buy now, you'd still need to upgrade to 2 and then to 3. You can get a discount on v2 if you wait until you buy MG; because that Module requires v2, the upgrade-plus-module is available for only $5 more than the Module alone, so you save $5 that way.

Still, I think, if you can stretch to it, the "Big Bundle" is the best price point for getting the lot unless you wait until v3 comes out to buy anything (even then, it's not guaranteed it'll get any cheaper, and, while you will have longer to save up, you'll be missing out on all the goodies )

[JoMac]

chohan85,

When you get a chance then just save-up, and at the minimum purchase the Base Game + CW + 2.0 upgrade all at once using the Bundle Option...I did this, then purchased 'Market Garden' seperate several months later. You can get away without 'Market Garden' for now since it's not considered Normandy, but rather the next major Operation to follow.

The Base Game alone only gives you the U.S. vs Germs ( and still missing many Para & SS Units, & some equipment), and no Commonwealth. You will also get the older 1.0 Game Engine that is already obsolete and rarely used by anyone ( especially if you want to find opponents ).

Most likely the 2.0 Upgrade will stay at around $10, and the 3.0 would be the same.

As Womble mentioned, you can also save-up, then purchase All-You-Can-Eat.

Joe

[Doug Williams]

OP, since you seem interested in the multiplayer aspect, I feel I should point out that only purchasing the base game will severely limit your multiplayer options. I don't know for certain, but believe that you would not be able to play any multiplayer games with anyone who has upgraded to 2.0.

Even if you do buy the base game and the 2.0 upgrade, you may still run into some PBEM issues, especially if you like to play Quick Battles and your opponent purchases units from the Commonwealth or the Market Garden module, it can cause the game to hang, which is rather frustrating. This is the biggest weakness I have found with the modular approach that BFC is using with the CM series.

Now your opponent could always do a second install of CMBN, base game only, but I find that to be a PITA.

Long story short, if you liked the demo, and liked what you saw on the videos, I recommend you just save up and buy the big bundle. You'll still be paying less for the whole package than most people on this forum, who bought each piece on the day it was released, or preordered.

[chohan85]

Hmm ok. So most of you suggest that i shold save up for the big bundle. I was thinking the base game and then v2.0 but as you pointed out it might cause game hangs on multiplayer. And yes multiplayer is the main goal once i get the basics right. The learning curves seems diffucult but thats what i like abiut tgese type of games, they are great simulations imo. And for sone reason i am not interested in CW, not a fan if them so i will be sticking to market garden.

[womble]

Hmm ok. So most of you suggest that i shold save up for the big bundle. I was thinking the base game and then v2.0 but as you pointed out it might cause game hangs on multiplayer. And yes multiplayer is the main goal once i get the basics right. The learning curves seems diffucult but thats what i like abiut tgese type of games, they are great simulations imo. And for sone reason i am not interested in CW, not a fan if them so i will be sticking to market garden.

The CW module does include a number of German formations that I don't think are found in MG, and vice versa. It's not just Brit/Canuck etc. And if you're keen on remaining compatible with opponents, having CW makes that significantly easier. I certainly have no idea which CW units for example are present in MG and which are in CW, so if I was your Allied opponent playing Brit forces in a September QB, it's a toss-up whether the force selection would work if your install didn't include the MG units.

[Doug Williams]

Yes like womble pointed out, if your goal is H2H (head to head or human vs human) play, you want to remain as compatible as possible with other H2H players, and we generally keep up to date on modules, upgrades, and patches.

Now, there is nothing wrong with just buying the base game, whatever modules interest you, and playing campaigns, scenarios and quick battles against the AI. The AI is sufficiently advanced to give a good challenge to even experienced players, especially when it is on defense in quick battles, or in well designed scenarios playing either side. I still occasionally lose to the AI.

To me, though, there is nothing like playing against another person, crushing him, and hearing the lamentations of his women. Conversely, getting crushed by a human opponent opens you up to all sorts of humiliations that are never experienced when you lose against the AI, because, after all, you can always just pretend it never happened. ;-)

[Pelican Pal]

Hello all and greetings from Pakistan.

ok now i do play a lot of WW2 based games and i am not one of those COH types players.. my fav game has always been the men of war series so you can get an idea that i am not a complete arcade players. even played close combat quite a bit few years back.

anyways i was looking around and stumbled upon this game but i got a few questions before i move towards purchasing it, i hope you people can help me with it.

i have gone through the gameplay videos and got a lot of interest in the game..

1. user made missions: yes i know their is a mod sections but mostly i see unit modeling over their. so my question is is their a central place from where i can download user made missions?

2. Multiplayer: does the game have it? how active is it (in case their is one)

Now this is the most important one

3. Pirce: ummmm if i am not wrong the game will cost me $75 (base CMBN+UI 2.0+market garden expansion). is it really so? the reason i am asking is that the game is quite old (couple of years i think) so why still the high prices? also is their an alternative to purchasing from the website? ie. purchasing it from some other website at a cheaper rate.

4. Game developmenet: what are the future stuf for it?

thanks in advance guys

1. There are two primary locations for custom missions.

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314

^The repository. Which is Battlefronts hosted location.

http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/

Green as jade which is community hosted. They both have different stuff on them so be sure to check them both.

2. Others have answered your MP question allthough I was under the impression that it would not allow your opponent to select forces that you did not own. Apparently this is not true? Perhaps if you created the QB it would limit what your opponent could purchase?

^This is really for those experienced in MP to answer. If it really just lets people pick whatever forces regardless of module ownership it is an excessively poor system.

3. BFC seems to think that high prices are the way to market their games. I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future although I would love for that to happen.

Just be very particular about what you are going to buy. There is no reason to drop $90 if you aren't interested in what any individual module offers. Play a lot of demos and find what you like the best. Also while you may enjoy the game now you may not get enjoy it as much as others do so jumping all the way in may not be the best idea.

4. Currently they are working on expansion for the Normandy game, Italy game, Eastern Front game, and producing a modern combat game set in the near future Ukraine.

Once again I will say that these games are absurdly expensive if you buy any quantity of them so be very particular about where you send your money.

[A Canadian Cat]

I was under the impression that it would not allow your opponent to select forces that you did not own. Apparently this is not true? Perhaps if you created the QB it would limit what your opponent could purchase?

Sadly no it will let you purchase what ever and then your opponent (who does not own that content) will not be able to load the turn.

^This is really for those experienced in MP to answer. If it really just lets people pick whatever forces regardless of module ownership it is an excessively poor system.

I'm not sure about excessively poor. Disappointing yes. Thankfully they are releasing a family of games with at most two modules so the combinations are too crazy. If they had just one game and 6, 7, 8 modules then it would be to insane for players to figure out.

[Pelican Pal]

Paying the premium price that CM games are (especially with multiple modules) I would expect BFC to do a better job at avoiding community fragmentation.

This is literally the same system that Call of Duty uses every year to get hundreds of dollars out of players.

[womble]

Paying the premium price that CM games are (especially with multiple modules) I would expect BFC to do a better job at avoiding community fragmentation.

I agree. You should be able to play with what you own, whatever the other player owns. This is a problem which was identified in CMSF, and "should" have been an obvious issue from the outset, allowing x2 to be designed with an architecture which could support cross-loading models etc within a specific game. At the very least the QB system should auto-trim the selection lists to present only TO&E that's commonly available to both players.

[c3k]

^^^

That kind of functionality would be great. It would, however, obviously require the two game systems to communicate with one another PRIOR to the QB being started. (Not that that's an insurmountable issue, just the obvious first step.)

Ken

[sburke]

Now this is the most important one

3. Pirce: ummmm if i am not wrong the game will cost me $75 (base CMBN+UI 2.0+market garden expansion). is it really so? the reason i am asking is that the game is quite old (couple of years i think) so why still the high prices? also is their an alternative to purchasing from the website? ie. purchasing it from some other website at a cheaper rate.

4. Game developmenet: what are the future stuf for it?

thanks in advance guys

These are actually linked questions and come up frequently on these boards. This is not addressed specifically to you chohan85 (and welcome aboard) but is a general response to the community as I haven't seen it quite expressed on this thread.

We are a niche community with a niche game. Personally I think CM is a niche to itself. This isn't to denigrate other games in the genre, but face it no other game plays quite like this in the WW 2 ground tactical simulation genre. That being said we are going to get what we pay for. These constant requests or suggestions that BF needs to find a way to reduce price deny that reality. If we aren't willing to pay for this then it simply is not going to happen. The BF team is small. They don't have a lot of overhead and last I knew Steve wasn't able to buy near the amount of military memorabilia, vehicles etc he'd like and Charles still doesn't have an Olympic pool size fish bowl to float around in surrounded by scantily clad female ... brains. (though I hear that there is grumbling from Chris's agent about his new found twitchtv stardom and salary caps just kidding)

Let's face it guys, until I win the lottery and decide to fund BF then we are stuck having to pay the costs that include having a game that is continually upgraded. (in case you are wondering, no I don't buy tickets for the "tax on the math impaired" so don't hold your breath on my winning). You don't like the price then don't buy the game because if BF has to lower it too much we won't have a game anyway.

As to the price of the game, I disagree it is high. You can't separate value from price. A car that costs $50 and only works for 10 minutes and has no features whatsoever is not cheap compared to a car that costs 20K and runs for 10 years with loads of features. It is just useless. I still play CMSF which is quite old now and lacking the features introduced with CMBN. CMBN and all following games come with a package deal that includes at a minimal cost (yes $10 is minimal, friggin get over it) keeping the game on the most current engine. CM is frankly an amazing value at the price- in reality it is ALREADY cheap.

[womble]

^^^

That kind of functionality would be great. It would, however, obviously require the two game systems to communicate with one another PRIOR to the QB being started. (Not that that's an insurmountable issue, just the obvious first step.)

Ken

'S been a while since I started a PBEM, bu isn't the first turn sent just a "here's a turn; I dun a password", which would notify the second player's machine which modules the first player has, and has chance to notify the first player's machine before the first player gets to a unit selection screen?

[Pelican Pal]

These are actually linked questions and come up frequently on these boards. This is not addressed specifically to you chohan85 (and welcome aboard) but is a general response to the community as I haven't seen it quite expressed on this thread.

We are a niche community with a niche game. Personally I think CM is a niche to itself. This isn't to denigrate other games in the genre, but face it no other game plays quite like this in the WW 2 ground tactical simulation genre. That being said we are going to get what we pay for. These constant requests or suggestions that BF needs to find a way to reduce price deny that reality. If we aren't willing to pay for this then it simply is not going to happen. The BF team is small. They don't have a lot of overhead and last I knew Steve wasn't able to buy near the amount of military memorabilia, vehicles etc he'd like and Charles still doesn't have an Olympic pool size fish bowl to float around in surrounded by scantily clad female ... brains. (though I hear that there is grumbling from Chris's agent about his new found twitchtv stardom and salary caps just kidding)

Let's face it guys, until I win the lottery and decide to fund BF then we are stuck having to pay the costs that include having a game that is continually upgraded. (in case you are wondering, no I don't buy tickets for the "tax on the math impaired" so don't hold your breath on my winning). You don't like the price then don't buy the game because if BF has to lower it too much we won't have a game anyway.

As to the price of the game, I disagree it is high. You can't separate value from price. A car that costs $50 and only works for 10 minutes and has no features whatsoever is not cheap compared to a car that costs 20K and runs for 10 years with loads of features. It is just useless. I still play CMSF which is quite old now and lacking the features introduced with CMBN. CMBN and all following games come with a package deal that includes at a minimal cost (yes $10 is minimal, friggin get over it) keeping the game on the most current engine. CM is frankly an amazing value at the price- in reality it is ALREADY cheap.

We all to some extent accept the price BFC is charging. It does mean I spend significantly less money than I might on CM.

And I will also say that I don't know BFCs current monetary situation. None of us can know that, and if they are doing fine and dandy charging what they currently charge then I see no reason for them to stop. They can charge whatever and I will give them money according to what I think it is worth.

However, I will say that the idea of CM being so niche that it must have high prices, that CM must have high prices due to free updates, that CM must charge for upgrades ($10 nowadays will get you games you can literally spend 100s of hours playing), and that CM is an amazing value are not truths.

These pricing policies are more in line with boardgames than digital and it has been proven that niche games can sell for non-premium prices, that they can provide free upgrades(even free content), that $10 can get you a game that will last 100s of hours and provide the above.

Now I understand the BFC doesn't want to rock the boat. They have a system that works for them, and why fix what isn't broken. However, nothing about CM makes the BFC system the only viable option.

[sburke]

We all to some extent accept the price BFC is charging. It does mean I spend significantly less money than I might on CM.

And I will also say that I don't know BFCs current monetary situation. None of us can know that, and if they are doing fine and dandy charging what they currently charge then I see no reason for them to stop. They can charge whatever and I will give them money according to what I think it is worth.

However, I will say that the idea of CM being so niche that it must have high prices, that CM must have high prices due to free updates, that CM must charge for upgrades ($10 nowadays will get you games you can literally spend 100s of hours playing), and that CM is an amazing value are not truths.

These pricing policies are more in line with boardgames than digital and it has been proven that niche games can sell for non-premium prices, that they can provide free upgrades(even free content), that $10 can get you a game that will last 100s of hours and provide the above.

Now I understand the BFC doesn't want to rock the boat. They have a system that works for them, and why fix what isn't broken. However, nothing about CM makes the BFC system the only viable option.

The only possible alternative is for BF to make less money. Unless someone thinks they are just rolling in dough and cavorting around like a bunch of adolescent dot com billionaires, then the suggestion is they should make do with less. This is their income, it has to cover their salary, health care and retirement beyond simply the costs to produce the game, maintain the website and all the rest of the costs to run a business. And yes it is a truth that CM is an amazing value. Ask anyone of us that have been playing this product for years while other games have long collected dust in a corner or been discarded and that includes games that cost more. You say $10 will get you that game that will provide all of the above and 100s of hours of entertainment. Name one and then let's venture out into a true comparison. What $10 game am I going to be playing day in and day out for the next 10 years. If you truly think you know of such a game, I suggest you save your money and go buy it instead.

Oh yeah, last question- is that/will that $10 game company still be here in 15 years? If you are really interested in understanding what the game cost buys you, you need to look at the whole picture.