DasNoogie Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 does anyone else have a problem with the way spotting works in this game. I had a squad of soldiers not spot a tank until they were only 5 meters away from it. not to mention my tanks getting killed by AT guns and no one being able to spot them? I don't know if I am just really use to cmbb, but a lack of spotting seems to take the fun out of the game for me. am I doing something wrong? are there orders I should be giving to my men? when I give moment orders, should I have multiple pauses in there moment path. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I've never seen soldiers fail to spot a nearby tank unless they were cowering. What was happening? What difficulty were you using? Getting off a few shots before being spotted is exactly what AT guns are designed to do. (Most players complain that they are spotted too easily.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNoogie Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 they were moving forward, when the spotted, the tank suddenly moved and that is when they spotted them. I was playing low difficultly. well that is want AT seemed to do in cmbb, here they seem invulnerable, but I am new to this engine and am probably not engaging them properly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNoogie Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 sorry, that should say, when they stopped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 does anyone else have a problem with the way spotting works in this game. I had a squad of soldiers not spot a tank until they were only 5 meters away from it. Not enough information yet to render an opinion on one. What kind of terrain were the tank and soldiers in? What kind of movement were the soldiers executing? not to mention my tanks getting killed by AT guns and no one being able to spot them? That is probably as it should be. Most ATGs were designed to be hard to spot, and intelligent crews would site them where they had good concealment. when I give moment orders, should I have multiple pauses in there moment path. Yeah, that is a good idea. Almost invariably I split my squads into teams. Then I move them in shortish bounds of 16-32m with a 10-15 second pause after each bound. I also stagger the beginning of movement between the teams so that as one team moves, at least one other is providing overwatch. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNoogie Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 the tank was in a wooded area and my soldiers ran across an open field, just to the left of the tank, and ended up on its flank, 5 meters away. soon after they stopped, the tank started to move and that is when they saw it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batteran Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 the tank was in a wooded area and my soldiers ran across an open field, just to the left of the tank, and ended up on its flank, 5 meters away. soon after they stopped, the tank started to move and that is when they saw it. Maybe... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 The camouflage of the main gun barrel is the best I've ever seen. They need to do something about the MG on the turret top though as it is a dead giveaway. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRider3/3 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 does anyone else have a problem with the way spotting works in this game. I had a squad of soldiers not spot a tank until they were only 5 meters away from it. not to mention my tanks getting killed by AT guns and no one being able to spot them? I don't know if I am just really use to cmbb, but a lack of spotting seems to take the fun out of the game for me. am I doing something wrong? are there orders I should be giving to my men? when I give moment orders, should I have multiple pauses in there moment path. AT guns are very hard to spot especially if your tank is buttoned up. I am not sure how they configured for the game with muzzle flashes for different AT guns, but I am sure some are more difficult to spot then others.... I actually am more concerned with AT guns then tanks... If I have the spare Artillery. I try and pepper suspected AT gun emplacements... if I can kill a few of the crew, which may make them slower, less effective.. also possibility of buttoning up hidden tanks. I try and view my axis of advance.. and think what I would do defensively against an attacker.. where would I set up?.. Bottlenecks, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 the tank was in a wooded area and my soldiers ran across an open field, just to the left of the tank, and ended up on its flank, 5 meters away. soon after they stopped, the tank started to move and that is when they saw it. It could be that the view into the woods is not very good and therefore they did not see the tank until they started penetrating the woods too. What @Michael Emrys suggested about having some of the squad / platoon stationary while other teams move is a good one and could help here too. Stationary soldiers spot better than running ones. To help your guys do the best they can at spotting give them time not moving and realize that they will not do a prefect job even then. A few instances and issues have been found with spotting and there are limitations. Most of the time though people are upset because *their* expectations have not been met not because there is a problem. Just last week someone ran into the side of my son's school bus (he is a passenger not driver). The car driver was stopped at a stop sign and drove into the side of the school bus. The driver did not clip the back they ran into the rear wheel. No one was hurt or anything. But it begs the question how do you not see a buss driving past you and how do you miss it right in front of you as you move forward into the road? Not that this is a good example of what infantry would do but just saying people do not always see things that in hind sight we think they should have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 The fact that the tank hadn't been plastering them with HE and MG fire as they crossed the field argues that it was deep enough into the woods to make spotting it out of the question until the troops were closer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix_45 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 DasNoogie, Spotting in the CMx2 engine cannot be calculated as is was in the x1 engine. The days of knowing exactly how far into the woods I need to put my men so they are not spotted but they can spot are over. It is much more of a "feel" kind of thing. Look at your environment from the soldiers point of view and go from there. Leave your men stationary for a few moves and they will spot things better. Are they VET or GREEN? All these things are taken into consideration and once you get it all figured out from good old trial and error......spotting will frustrate you some other way. War is hell and spotting in CMBN/RT adds to that hell. LOL Makes the game more fun when there is an element of surprise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Maybe... The difference between one armys tank crews and another. One army devotes time and energy to crew drills and gunnery. The next one over perfects moss and bark collection battle drills. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 There are few important differences between spotting in CMx1 and CMx2 that might be causing you some headaches if you are new to the CMX2 games. Primary differences: Individual Spotting: In CMx1 games spotting was done by the whole team. So if a single squad saw a tank then every single unit on your team would have knowledge of that tank's position. This isn't true in CMx2. Every unit has its own personal view of the battlefield that isn't instantly shared with every other unit. So a squad of guys might see a tank, but the rest of the platoon won't know about it. That squad can disseminate their sighting information to nearby units over time, but it is no longer instant. This can make weapons like AT guns much more dangerous. If a platoon of tanks stumble upon an AT gun it is very possible for only a single tank in that platoon to see the gun. No one else will know about it, and if the tank that sees the gun is destroyed before the crew can tell anyone else then you have the remaining platoon left with no knowledge of what is happening. No Terrain Tiles: In CMx1 terrain was done in 20M tiles. This tile is heavy woods, and the tile right next to it is light. You can see 10M into a heavily wooded tile regardless of which one you are talking about. They all of the same attributes and you could have a list of tiles and their effects upon units and LOS. In CMx2 this is not true. In this woods tile there might be a small sapling that makes it different than the tile of woods next to it. That tile has 3 big trees while this next one has a collection of small bushes and a single large tree. So what your men can or cannot see is a lot hazier. A difference of a single tree can mean the difference between spotting or not. Recommendations: split squads into smaller teams and make sure you recon a lot more than you would in CMx1. Give your men a few minutes to scope out terrain and have multiple teams doing it. Send a forward team into positions that are wooded so if something nasty is hiding there you don't lose a lot of men and material. It is important to understand that a densely wooded area could easily hide a platoon of men or more and you would have no idea until you walked almost literally on top of their position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 It could be that the view into the woods is not very good and therefore they did not see the tank until they started penetrating the woods too. What @Michael Emrys suggested about having some of the squad / platoon stationary while other teams move is a good one and could help here too. Stationary soldiers spot better than running ones. To help your guys do the best they can at spotting give them time not moving and realize that they will not do a prefect job even then. A few instances and issues have been found with spotting and there are limitations. Most of the time though people are upset because *their* expectations have not been met not because there is a problem. Just last week someone ran into the side of my son's school bus (he is a passenger not driver). The car driver was stopped at a stop sign and drove into the side of the school bus. The driver did not clip the back they ran into the rear wheel. No one was hurt or anything. But it begs the question how do you not see a buss driving past you and how do you miss it right in front of you as you move forward into the road? Not that this is a good example of what infantry would do but just saying people do not always see things that in hind sight we think they should have. CM doesn't simulate texting - at least not in the WW 2 series. Maybe we'll se that more in the modern ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xornor Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Spotting spoils this otherwise great game. I hate that a) you can not see what happens on the battlefield without clicking and checking every single unit through and how unrealistic spotting is. In my latest game (demo) I had a AT team hidden in the woods near the wide open area. Two tanks approached them. The first one passed the team approximately 10-20 meters away and the team was not able to see it! The second tank came almost same route and for some unknown reason, those veteran soldiers were now able to detect the huge thank which was almost driving over them. In an another game I had a AT team in the house and at least 3 tanks passed it - as you probably guess, the team did not see anything. Probably they were just so drunk? It is not fun that you can not create any valid plans because soldiers are blind and deaf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix_45 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 It is not fun that you can not create any valid plans because soldiers are blind and deaf. Really? Is spotting perfect? No...... But it's not that bad that it makes the game unplayable.....but it does make it unpredictable at times, that makes it challenging and challenging can be fun. :) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarre Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 and i think you doed somthing wrong then if they didint spot. personaly newer have any problem whit spotting, on my mind its mutch beter now than it was in cmx1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Spotting spoils this otherwise great game. I hate that a) you can not see what happens on the battlefield without clicking and checking every single unit through... How in tarnation could they possibly represent the detail they're depicting in a way that you can easily digest at a glance? Note, I'm ignoring the hyperbole, and assuming that you mean "watching from a decent sampling of viewpoints concentrated on the interesting areas of a given minute". It is not fun that you can not create any valid plans because soldiers are blind and deaf. Hey, maybe it's just that you haven't sussed out how the game works yet. Are you sure there were windows? Are you sure your troops weren't unnecessarily "Hide"ing? Was their noise and threat of shrapnel that was making them cower? Did you have "Show Smoke" on? Yeah, we dismiss your anecdotes. That's because they don't seem to happen to us, and you've not provided anywhere near enough information to know that it's not 100% down to your misapprehensions/inflated expectations. And we are playing the same game. Oh, and flaming an aspect of the game that works plausibly 99.999% of the time is really not a great way of getting positive attention. It's entirely possible to make valid plans (that still won't survive first contact with the enemy), so your last sentence is less "hyperbole" and more "suspect". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmox Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Spotting is a strange beast indeed experience has taught me to stay put(where possible) with said unit until C2 kicks in and the unit in question gets the sound contact marker visable with the unit selected.i only play on elite or iron so i dont know if theres any difference on other skill levels. i found the unit will spot and engage the target in a more satisfactory manner this way. happy hunting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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