Lt Belenko Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It's great that Tank Riders are in the code for CMRT. From my Panzer Blitz/Leader days, I do remember that tank riders were NOT permitted for the Allies in Panzer Leader. I was wondering about 3.0 upgrade for the western front, are tank riders in the plan? For both Axis and Allies? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Well the code base will be the same, so it will be technically possible. There are good and historical reasons to disallow it for the Allies (and some good reasons to allow it given the larger maps now practicable); I would guess it will be turned off, if that's possible, for the Allies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It may be simply that the WAllies had more transport. IIRC riding on tanks was primarily a stopgap solution to not having sufficient transport to carry infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It may be simply that the WAllies had more transport. IIRC riding on tanks was primarily a stopgap solution to not having sufficient transport to carry infantry. That's certainly how I've gathered the Allies used tank riding, with similar criteria to other troop transports for dismounting, i.e. well out of the way of anticipated enemy activity. On large maps, there may well be plenty of opportunity for dogfaces and pogoes to hitch rides on AFVs and be well away from enemy fire, but I can see BFC nixing it because us gamey bastidges would have the PBI ride into fisticuffs range, which, AFAIK, or at least for practical purposes, never happened by design in the ETO. I think it's arguable that the Soviets made a virtue out of "having" to use tanks to allow infantry to keep up with the armour: equipping the designated riders for the role and developing ways of actually using them under fire (costly ways, perhaps, but a cost that could and perhaps had to be borne). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I'm a bit worried the tank riders won't be clever enough to jump off once they come under fire. The preview said they didn't... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I'm a bit worried the tank riders won't be clever enough to jump off once they come under fire. The preview said they didn't... Then you're in good company with the Allied commanders, which is why tank riding didn't happen anywhere they could come under fire. I expect the TacAI routines to decide when to bail and when to hang on until the objective has been reached took some hacking out and testing. I also expect they're balanced to "OstFront" casualty expectations... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 I'm a bit worried the tank riders won't be clever enough to jump off once they come under fire. The preview said they didn't... My Russian tank rders were fell off (WIA/KIA) like Yul Brenner's hair with alopecia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I expect if you're a Soviet soldier holding onto a grab bar on a T34 as it races at top speed over broken ground you cling for dear life to the side of the tank. Throwing yourself off the tank and under the wheels of the T34 that's following behind isn't an option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Tank riders and their use is a tough one. You absolutely have to have the opponent suppressed or those guys are corpses waiting to happen. It is particularly tough for the AI. They are great for getting your tanks into position with supporting infantry fast, but you absolutely do not want them anywhere near unsuppressed infantry. You'd be better off with halftracks in that instance. I expect players will discover real fast there are very definite limitations to their use even if that lesson is taught by a trail of bodies streaming off the back. Using them well like everything else in CM is a matter of good timing and combined arms tactics. I am not too concerned their use will unbalance things on the Western Front. Having them available helps limit some of the map congestion of too many trucks etc around. However the trucks do provide a nice mobile ammo reserve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Tank riders and their use is a tough one. You absolutely have to have the opponent suppressed or those guys are corpses waiting to happen. It is particularly tough for the AI. They are great for getting your tanks into position with supporting infantry fast, but you absolutely do not want them anywhere near unsuppressed infantry. You'd be better off with halftracks in that instance. Indeed, the tank riders' behavior is coded for staying on as long as possible even when taking casualties. It needs to be that way so the Soviet tactics of suppressing the enemy line as the tanks rush up and unload the SMG infantry at close range. That does mean that if you are just driving around your tank riders will hang on longer than you would want. So, be aware: if you are driving your infantry up to a staging area make sure that the way is safe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 It may be simply that the WAllies had more transport. IIRC riding on tanks was primarily a stopgap solution to not having sufficient transport to carry infantry. Well yes and no. I think substantial portions of the British infantry had organic transport, but that was not the case in normal US infantry divisions. On the other hand, US divisions were so lavishly supplied with motor transport that nearly everybody could hitch a ride for short distances, even if it meant riding on the fender of a jeep. For longer trips, they had short term access to army level transport or ComZ transport. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChappyCanuck Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 As a student and teacher of Canadian military history, tank riding was quite common in the Canadian army in WW2, whether it was Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, or the Netherlands. There are dozens of examples of Canadian infantry companies and/or battalions/regiments riding tanks to battle, into battle, and during pursuit ops. Other than some Bren gun carriers/universal carriers (used mainly by the reconnaissance platoon) and trucks for supplies, Canadian infantry regiments for the most part lacked a vehicle/APC to carry them into battle. So in order to keep up with and support the tanks, it was quite common for the infantry to climb aboard them. And for the most part, it worked. Those interested should read Mark Zuehlke's books, detailing the campaigns of the Canadians in WW2. I think he is up to a dozen or so books now, and has emerged as our top historian in the field. All that being said, I highly welcome the ability to ride tanks...finally! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I'd like this feature to be added because that's one of the first things I remember from CMBO demo, where I had toons on stugs and shermans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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