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Looking for information on Russian tactical symbols


IanL

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Wow, thanks everyone. I knew there would be knowledge out there.

@billy_sp I am glad to see you are actually working on your mod. It is my favorite mod out there I find it really adds to the atmosphere of the game.

Given that you have lots going on how would you feel about collaborating? We could split the Soviet work and share via drop box. If you think that would be helpful send me a PM and we can connect via email.

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Hi, just uploaded a new icons version to the repository. It contains German and Allied tactical symbols updated to 2.12. I've been using it myself for quite a while but haven't got round to posting it. Also have Luftwaffe Blue and British Brown versions if anyone's interested. Will try to work on Soviet symbols soon, as my CMSF version is very very low-res, but cannot guarantee anything, real life intrudes at this time of year. Any new sources for soviet symbols welcome! Have previously used some of the above pages and APOS. Cheers

Shouldn't they have appeared by now?

Will there be an automated message from the repository in the forum?

I am eager to use them.

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I spent lunch reviewing the various docs people sent me, translated and linked to. Very interesting. I find it interesting how different the armies tackled the same problem. And at the same time there are similarities as well.

The German system has a very rich layering capability where you can combine multiple symbols together to add meaning. Well, all the systems can do that at least to some extent. The German system just seems to take it to the next level.

The most interesting thing about the Soviet system is now operationally focused it is. Their system is not just showing the organization and then you put them on the map with arrows to show how things move, it has the stance built right into the system.

With their system you can show the movements of large units right on the arrows because the basic infantry symbol is a line, when it is moving it has an arrow. If the infantry in moving in column then the line is long and you can decorate it with the supporting elements and symbols for the size. They have variations for infantry moving on offense, moving on offense - line abreast and moving on offense in a column (described previously), defense (no arrow). Very cool.

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OK I am done - I was lucky enough to be asked to help out with play testing so I had an early icon name list to work with and plan. I had to devote my actual time to play testing - one does not want to get fired after all:D but I did do some icon work here and there when I could not have played.

After a late night to put the final touches on my icons mod is up. This is inspired by the original work of @billy_sp whose first icon mod I really liked. I totally started from scratch tough and actually made the icons just a shade bigger but they still have that semi transparent look to them.

I have uploaded it to the repository and I'll post on the CMRT mods forum once it is available. I want to publicly thank the people who helped out in this thread I would not have succeeded without your help - Thank you.

As of now you can get it here.

The Soviet icons:

SovietTacticalSymbolsKey.jpg

The soviets actually had a symbol for ammo bearers which is pretty cool. Really all I had to do was decide how to depict the symbols in the icons since there are a number of ways I could have gone. I hope you like them.

SovietTacticalSymbolsPreview.jpg

The German icons:

GermanTacticalSymbolsKey.jpg

The German ammo bearers are a bit of a stretch. I used the symbol for supply units which are really rear area only but I figured using that would be better than something I made up.

GermanTacticalSymbolsPreview.jpg

There is a bug related to some German vehicles and I have logged it. Chances are you guys might not even notice so I will not even tell you about it.

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They look good and I congratulate you on finding the symbols. I will definitely give them a try.

What program did you use to create the icons? I would not mind also just trying this out myself as a self-mod and this may be just small enough to be manageable (and I have no artistic skill so vehicles and faces are never an option)

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They look good and I congratulate you on finding the symbols. I will definitely give them a try.

Well I did not find them, I struck out. The people that posed on the forum with info saved the day so much of the thanks goes to them. Good I hope you like them when you play.

What program did you use to create the icons? I would not mind also just trying this out myself as a self-mod and this may be just small enough to be manageable (and I have no artistic skill so vehicles and faces are never an option)

I used Greefish icon editor, it can handle the 32 bmp files and has a reasonable way of editing the transparency. Good editor for icons.

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I have been using your mod but found it a little confusing. IN the Soviet system a circle denotes a man or 'team' in BF parlance while a half circle denotes a section/squad or platoon.

So ammunition carriers use the squad symbol but this team is only 3 men so should be denoted by a circle with an 'n' in the middle.

Likewise the HQ units are denoted by a circle with a cross on top - a platoon commander ie the man himself - a better symbol might be the HQ traingular flag symbol which denotes all HQ up to Battalion.

The SMG squad has a blob under the half circle but in fact it is a letter the Russian letter looking like a 'q'.

The symbol for flamethrower is not OT but rather an arrow with a base with a circle through the middle of the arrow shaft.

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Quick question: I've installed this and while playing as Sovs it shows the Sov icons for my side, but the standard, original symbols for the Germans--is that correct, or should it use your German icons as well?

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I see both sets of icons in their 'modded' form.

Strange...the German icons are in my User Data folder, but so far I don't see them, although I'm just starting the game and so thus far only have contact markers.

I play on elite, and I think in elite all inf-type units are only shown as a generic inf-marker (ie, not as HQ, AT, etc.). Could this have something to do with it? I should know more within a few turns once I've spotted some enemy troops.

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I play on elite, and I think in elite all inf-type units are only shown as a generic inf-marker (ie, not as HQ, AT, etc.). Could this have something to do with it? I should know more within a few turns once I've spotted some enemy troops.

Correct it does us the infantry icon - but it is working fine for me on Elite. Are you seeing my modded FOW icons? They are not in the key but they are the same grey blue colour with a thin black order.

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Quick question: I've installed this and while playing as Sovs it shows the Sov icons for my side, but the standard, original symbols for the Germans--is that correct, or should it use your German icons as well?

No that is not correct. You should see the German icons for the Germans. I have trouble picturing how the Soviet icons would be working but the Germans not.

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I have been using your mod but found it a little confusing.

Good, sorry for any confusion - let me explain where I am coming from.

I got the info from the Handbook on USSR Millitary Forces. Here is my interpretation in answer to your questions:

IN the Soviet system a circle denotes a man or 'team' in BF parlance while a half circle denotes a section/squad or platoon.

On page XII-8

Actually in the Soviet system infantry on the move are denoted by an arrow. Whey they are on the march they have a long column and any other supporting units are added to the line so a column of infantry and tanks would have a long line with an arrow with the diamond shapes for the tank units along the line. Ditto for other units.

From the same page Infantry that are stationary are symbolized by a stick. However their disposition is denoted by the semi circle or a horizontal squiggly line. The the squiggly line denotes a line formation while semi circle denotes other formations.

These are all technically platoon level symbols. I chose to use them for the squads and I chose the semi circle so I could get some yellow in there to make it easier to see.

Mean while the circle seems to be as you said for a team... more below.

So ammunition carriers use the squad symbol but this team is only 3 men so should be denoted by a circle with an 'n' in the middle.

True but I was going for something that matched the squads. I read the circle as being an individual but looking again I see that your interpretation would be more accurate.

Likewise the HQ units are denoted by a circle with a cross on top - a platoon commander ie the man himself - a better symbol might be the HQ traingular flag symbol which denotes all HQ up to Battalion.

Correct that is the platoon symbol. I would love to have separate icons for the different levels. But the most common commander is the platoon commander. I do not see a triangular flag symbol in the source material. I see various stylized and stripped flags that represent a wide range of levels of command but nothing generic. Can you point me to a source?

The SMG squad has a blob under the half circle but in fact it is a letter the Russian letter looking like a 'q'.

From that same table in page XII-8 the SWG platoon is denoted by the infantry symbol but with a dot. Are you saying the dot I see is actually a 'q' that has been rendered poorly by the scan?

The symbol for flamethrower is not OT but rather an arrow with a base with a circle through the middle of the arrow shaft.

I admit I made that up from hole cloth - I could not find a symbol for a flame thrower any where. I had to have something so I translated flame using google translate and took the first few letter.

I would much rather have the right symbol. Can you tell me where you found it? I would even take the modern Russian symbol or cold war Soviet symbol for a flame thrower over my made up thing. That is what I had to do with the US icons - I could not find a WWII symbol so I use the modern NATO symbol for it.

Thanks for taking the time to try these our and send your feedback.

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Here's what I'm seeing:

https://p3plcpnl0259.prod.phx3.secureserver.net:2083/cpsess6983544931/frontend/godaddy/filemanager/showfile.html?file=tacicons.bmp&fileop=&dir=%2Fhome%2Fvervecom14%2Fpublic_html%2Fgames&dirop=&charset=&file_charset=&baseurl=&basedir=

Although recently I saw another infantry unit with a modified icon, so I'm a bit confused about what is going on...

also, can anyone tell me how to post an image rather than a link on this forum? I don't see the various formatting buttons I'm familiar with from most fora.

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The picture link asks for a login.

To embed an image, get the url directly to the image and use the IMG tag which you can automatically insert using the yellow button with the mountains and the sun on it.

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hmmm, I had the basic text editor on, so didn't have any buttons...now fixed.

Here is the first pic, in which the unedited german FOW appears:

tacicons.bmp

Here is a second one, in which your modified icon appears for an ID'd German target (red circle), and the unmodified icon appears for a FOW target (blue circle). Note that in the game, there are another two FOW targets near the other icons, but for some reason they don't show up in the screenshot:

tacicons2.bmp

EDIT: Figured out the picture thing, see above...

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