75mm HE

[fabiovir]

Hallo everyone, but i'm very enjoying MG but have some trouble about some missions.

is the sherman 75 mm gun too weak? because in the fighing i have very trouble to knock out some paks that are hiding behind prepared positions, and after 3-4 round scored in the middle of the position they are still operative. They are some time silent but after few minutes they open up again with very deadly effect!!!!

Frustation because i run out of ammunitions without any effect. Fire and movement dont work.

I cant suppress them and my infantry is like sitting duck....my thypoons fly around strafe and drop the bombs and hits (the crateres of the explosion are bordering sand bags) the targets but the pak are still there firing without problems....please BF look out about this because Monty is too far....

[Karabekian]

Anti tank guns were not that easy to disable with tanks historically. Unless you have something heavier or manage a direct hit.

[Oddball_E8]

Anti tank guns were not that easy to disable with tanks historically. Unless you have something heavier or manage a direct hit.

I have found that using mainly machineguns against them works better than using the cannon. Set target light on it and see if it helps.

[ZPB II]

In the Road To Nijmegen Guards missions I had a sandbagged 88mm Flak that took an absurd amount of punishment (dozens and then dozens of 75mm HE, several artillery & Typhoon strikes and too many MG belts to count) to take out, but all the 75mm Paks and other Flaks were taken out rather easily.

I've been doing some testing against different sandbagged guns and they are routinely taken out.

Trying to replicate conditions for the near-invincible gun is hard.

[Michael Emrys]

Trying to replicate conditions for the near-invincible gun is hard.

It may have just been a statistical fluke then, a series of unlucky die rolls.

Michael

[Seedorf81]

Hallo everyone, but i'm very enjoying MG but have some trouble about some missions.

is the sherman 75 mm gun too weak? because in the fighing i have very trouble to knock out some paks that are hiding behind prepared positions, and after 3-4 round scored in the middle of the position they are still operative. They are some time silent but after few minutes they open up again with very deadly effect!!!!

Frustation because i run out of ammunitions without any effect. Fire and movement dont work.

I cant suppress them and my infantry is like sitting duck....my thypoons fly around strafe and drop the bombs and hits (the crateres of the explosion are bordering sand bags) the targets but the pak are still there firing without problems....please BF look out about this because Monty is too far....

In my experience mortars are the easiest way to knock out an AT gun.

Well, my AT guns never last long versus AI arty..

[JasonC]

"Anti tank guns were not that easy to disable with tanks historically"

Horsefeathers. If the tanks have only 2 pdrs without any HE and are as numerous as the tanks themselves, maybe (PAK front stuff, early war). But 75mm main armament tanks clocked ATGs all day.

The only thing the PAK had going for it in that matchup was stealth, hoping they got off first shots. At extreme range (only) they might be hard to pick up even after firing, but not at the ranges one typically sees on CM maps. And once the gun was located, it was just a few rounds max to find the range. Any near miss would then permanently suppress the gun crew - permanently because once down, later rounds were perfectly safe and would finish the gun.

This sounds like inadequate suppression effect from the near miss HE. Perhaps the nerfing for action spots is protecting the actual point target way too much. Infantry isn't as clumped in real life as in CM, and they had to dial down HE effects to prevent uber full squad KOs with one round. But gun crews actually are point targets (a few ammo operation guys maybe 5-10 meters away, at best).

[Vanir Ausf B]

after 3-4 round scored in the middle of the position they are still operative.

That would be very unusual. My experience has been that HE of any type is very lethal to any nearby infantry that isn't in good cover or at least prone.

[MikeyD]

Flat trajectory rounds often mean if you miss by a little you miss by a lot. The slightest deviation and the round falls tens of meters short or long, or in my case it usually clears the crest and goes flying off into infinity. I recall reading a long time ago statistics on the average number of tank rounds fired per destroyed target, overall within a battalion I believe. The number was absurdly high. On a good day a tank could pump out rounds by the dozen with hardly anything to show for it. Only taking 4-5 rounds would mean they're having a good day.

There's also the matter of how the game designates kills. Tank can kill the entire gun crew but one badly wounded guy cowering and the gun would still be considered 'operational'. I've seen tanks take out a gun of mine and keep firing, apparently not aware that their job is done. Is there a 'death clock' on destroyed guns before the other side recognizes a 'kill'? There is on tanks.

[Michael Emrys]

On a good day a tank could pump out rounds by the dozen with hardly anything to show for it. Only taking 4-5 rounds would mean they're having a good day.

Anecdotes describing typical tank firing behavior run something like this: "First round short by 20 meters. Second round over; strike not observed. Third round hits target and ricochets as do fourth and fifth rounds. Sixth round appears to penetrate but no damage observed. Seventh round pay dirt! Huge explosion and fire." Meanwhile, the opposing tank may be firing back with more or less similar results possible.

Michael

[Ultradave]

For some reason my experience is that I lose my AT guns to the first one or two rounds from a Sherman. Maybe my bad luck.

[A co]

In various instances I've seen considerable variation in the amount of HE fire it takes to destroy an AT gun in the game, and I think that makes the play more interesting. (Can't speak about realism). For example, you might succeed in wrecking a gun with one or two quick shots, or you might have to devote several assets and several turns to remove the threat. Keeps things more suspenseful and unpredictable.

[Apocal]

This sounds like inadequate suppression effect from the near miss HE. Perhaps the nerfing for action spots is protecting the actual point target way too much. Infantry isn't as clumped in real life as in CM, and they had to dial down HE effects to prevent uber full squad KOs with one round. But gun crews actually are point targets (a few ammo operation guys maybe 5-10 meters away, at best).

In my experience (with the game, obviously) the suppression effects are fine, 75mm HE within one action spot will max out suppression, generally speaking. Within two action spots the bar is generally near max, with any following shots maxing it out. I've only seen results as extreme as described when the gun was protected by a fairly steep gradient in front resulting in many shells landing within 5m as the bird flies, but in-game two action spots away - and protected from the shrapnel by the terrain. And then, if the gun is "skylined" the majority of the longs go well over, landing two, three, five action spots behind. Its uncommon and "dozens and dozens, Typhoons, etc." is certainly an outlier even among that, but it happens.

Also (probably) related is the point you raised in the prior thread about MGs: suppression recovery is too fast.

EDIT: @OP, would it be possible to provide a screenshot?