Wodin Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Just reading the Italy forum about hand to hand and came up with his idea. Maybe when units\soldiers go into hand to hand combat we get a floating icon (similar o the surrender) but here show a bayonet above the units in hand to hand combat..add sound effects aswell maybe. This way no complicated animation needs to be done. We get to see which units are in HtH and no need then for shooing at zero range to simulate it. For me this would be enough and I'd be happy with it. Making animations for HtH would be very difficult to make it look reasonable, this way there is no need for it. In Graviteam Tactics they have the soldiers kicking each other..looks silly to be honest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedorf81 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Man, when reading this title I thought you were talking about some kinda gay, flower power, '60's "peace for everybody" thing. For a moment I had this strange image of tough GI's and battle hardened SS men, hopping along hand in hand. These nightshifts are really getting to me.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Sounds a bit too much like a gimmick to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Man, when reading this title I thought you were talking about some kinda gay, flower power, '60's "peace for everybody" thing. For a moment I had this strange image of tough GI's and battle hardened SS men, hopping along hand in hand. These nightshifts are really getting to me.. Let's all sing Kumbya. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 She said "I'm tired of the war I want the kind of work I had before A wedding dress or something white To get me through this dark and smoky night" "Joan of Ark" —Leonard Cohen Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Sounds a bit too much like a gimmick to me. Really? I imagine the reason HtH isn't in game is due to getting it took look even decent with regards to animations. Now MG is out and it has far more urban combat then HtH becomes abit more important as a feature. Instead of some silly animation (like Graviteam goose step kick). I suppose you could show the icon and have the soldiers a knife in hand facing each other, which wouldn't be to hard to animate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Wodin, I hope one day we will have close combat, but till then your suggestion will do nicely. Great idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 +1 to Wodins idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroCat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yeah I'd be cool with an abstract UI with SFX version of H2H combat. Of course actual animations would be great, I just don't think they are probably worth it, all things considered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Double post 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 After the U.S. Civil war it was determined that less than 1% of all casualties were caused by bayonets. And there was far more close quarter fighting in that conflict than in WW2. Just sayin'. But... there was some hand to hand that took place in Arnhem during MG. And the last great bayonet charge occurred, iirc, in the Falklands War. That said, it would be a fun addition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 And the last great bayonet charge occurred, iirc, in the Falklands War. I thought I read some where that the Brits used it one more time in Iraq. Found this: http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/observation-post/2009/04/bayonets---the-future.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nik mond Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Besides how it looks, how would the dice roll? Some weighting could apply to the soldier's condition: wounded vs not. A Veteran gets a bonus vs green. Physical condition, perhaps morale etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The game needs higher head count surrendering- say entire squads- more than it needs hand to hand combat animations. In my humble opinion. When the blades come out the hands go up anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Re: bayonet charges. I've got a book floating around called "Battle Tactics of the Civil War" by Paddy someone or another. (My apologies to the author.) Great work on how the regiments actually fought. Ranges, effectiveness, etc. Anyhow, the gist of it regarding bayonet charges is instructive. At one point in a battle, a unit will gain enough emotion (call it "bloodlust", "anger", whatever) to want to physically kill the enemy. Fixing bayonets and charging helps induce that state of emotional fervor. The odds of BOTH formations (friendly and enemy) being in that state of hyper-aggressiveness at the same time are quite low. The result is that one unit, with bayonets fixed and running at the enemy with a deranged wide-eye scream, is ready to kill or be killed. The other unit is in the fight, but not quite so committed. They'll take their chance with marksmanship, but not a knifefighting, clubbing, choking, gouging melee. Rather than stay there, most units would then pull back. The bayonet charge works. If you can close ground so that the receiving unit has no doubt that you will arrive there, intact, and ready to gut them. In that case, if the receiving unit has not upped their emotional state to the same level, they leave. Hence, despite the prevalence of bayonet charges in the US Civil War, the low proportion of bayonet wounds. Most units run away. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Hence, despite the prevalence of bayonet charges in the US Civil War, the low proportion of bayonet wounds. Most units run away. ... or surrender. I've heard say the 'fix bayonets!' command serves primarily as a testosterone booster. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensal Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I would agree with most of the recent comments about the relative rarity of 'hand to hand' combat. It probably happened in urban fights but perhaps mostly by accident i.e. running into cover in the wrong house or jumping into the wrong slit trench and even then most people were still probably killed by small arms. British soldiers with bayonets on generally used them on enemy casualties they were passing "just to make sure". Not good if you were wounded and unable to move 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenzie Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Hand to hand fighting would be kinda neat. Sometimes I'll have an assault team make it into an enemy trench, and they'll be all out of ammo by the time they get there. So there is an awkward moment when my men stand there reloading with the enemy cowering right at their feet. Or some enemies will stand up and awkwardly stare at my guys for a few seconds at point blank range before they decide to run away or someone gets shot. This happened twice during one of the Market Garden battles I tried earlier. I would like my men to just whack them over the head with their rifle butt, but it's not a big deal anyway. It's still pretty rare. It seems like it would be a lot of work to implement this kind of thing no matter how simple it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I've heard say the 'fix bayonets!' command serves primarily as a testosterone booster. Something like that. From first person accounts I've read, when the order was given, the reactive feeling was, "Okay, now this is getting serious." Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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