Can you cross own minefields? Can Onmap mortar use TRP?

[kohlenklau]

I am new at in-depth playing and am trying to iron out a few questions.

Manual didn't seem to jump out with info.

Can you cross your own minefields? I say no.

I set-up a line of mines and then "quicked" a platoon through it.

At first it seemed that they were making it through okay.

"hey, those are our mines, of course we know where they are and can cut through". a shrek and a platoon HQ made it across, then a squad went through and bang bang bang, red crosses and "minen!"

Any other stipulations on this? A veteran squad can go through or something?

again,..manual didn't say much it seemed.

Can you have a TRP and say an onmap mortar can just fire at it without LOS.

It seems the answer is no. I thought back in CM1 that if you had NOT moved the mortar then it could fire at a TRP even without LOS. Maybe I aint remembering this correctly. I guess I wanted to click on a mortar, not an FO, and have it independently fire at a TRP. I mean you can have a mortar fire indepdendently at a target in LOS why not at a TRP? Or maybe there is some veteran and above only rule?

[MikeyD]

Ha ha. I've been playing this game since 2007 and I cannot recall anyone ever asking before if you can cross your own minefields! Now you got me curious. I'm going to have to make a test map.

[Apocal]

Ha ha. I've been playing this game since 2007 and I cannot recall anyone ever asking before if you can cross your own minefields! Now you got me curious. I'm going to have to make a test map.

The mines still go off.

[c3k]

So, the answer is, "Yes, you can cross your own minefield." That leads to the following question: "If I cross my own minefield, will the mines attack my men?" The answer to that is, "Yes, the mines will attack anyone who attempts to cross."

[Holman]

You have warning signs posted on your own minefields so that your men can avoid them. Enemies don't see that sign until they detect the minefield, usually the hard way.

Since there's no way your soldiers could know that there's a mine right here but not right there, your soldiers can still set off your mines if you order them through the field.

[Col Deadmarsh]

So, the answer is, "Yes, you can cross your own minefield." That leads to the following question: "If I cross my own minefield, will the mines attack my men?" The answer to that is, "Yes, the mines will attack anyone who attempts to cross."

This begs the question, "Why would mines attack people?"

[poesel]

This begs the question, "Why would mines attack people?"

Envy - they have to sit all day in the damp earth while these on-earthers walk freely in the sun. So when they get trampled that finally tips them off - they want to see the sun again with all force.

For a more intricate discussion about mine and bomb philosophy I can recommend the movie 'Dark Star'.

[Sailor Malan2]

Envy - they have to sit all day in the damp earth while these on-earthers walk freely in the sun. So when they get trampled that finally tips them off - they want to see the sun again with all force.

For a more intricate discussion about mine and bomb philosophy I can recommend the movie 'Dark Star'.

[David Attenborough voice] And here we see the Threaders metamorphing from their normal state into their surreal spring plumage. No one knows why this happens, although there is some evidence that the prehistoric Peng Thread is an ancestor or most if not all Threads alive today

And I have read the manual/wiki only yesterday. The difference between enemy and friendly minefields is indeed that you can see friendly ones, and not enemy ones (until detected). The mines themselves are equal opportunity weapons - they attack everyone equally. Realistic if you think about it - the tactical maps and briefings the guys get in RL cover where the minefield is, not where the mines are. And also, measuring/couting paces etc in combat to find individual mines is not reall practical - thats specialised Engineer job.

[womble]

Can you have a TRP and say an onmap mortar can just fire at it without LOS.

It seems the answer is no. I thought back in CM1 that if you had NOT moved the mortar then it could fire at a TRP even without LOS. Maybe I aint remembering this correctly. I guess I wanted to click on a mortar, not an FO, and have it independently fire at a TRP. I mean you can have a mortar fire indepdendently at a target in LOS why not at a TRP? Or maybe there is some veteran and above only rule?

There aren't any "veteran and above" rules that I can think of. Everything affected by experience is just a continuum. You are correct that the answer to your question is "no". You have to use an observer to fire indirect at a TRP.

The "explanation" that you're apparently seeking could be thus:

TRPs are representing multiple things. They represent points of fire pre registered for indirect assets. They also represent "familiarity" with the terrain and possibly pre-fired ranging shots for direct fire assets. This is a simplification to reduce the need for association of a TRP with a particular unit (why should a tank that's just rolled up get the benefit of an ATG's prep?). It's not 100% realistic, but then the game isn't. It's just pretty darn close.

[Michael Emrys]

Since there's no way your soldiers could know that there's a mine right here but not right there, your soldiers can still set off your mines if you order them through the field.

That depends. When engineers lay a minefield, standard procedure was to draw a map showing the location of each mine. But if it was a hasty minefield, they may not have had time to do so. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that the information would be shared outside the unit laying the mines. I think that BFC has programmed a general case that covers the situation as it existed at this level of combat fairly adequately.

Michael

[winkelried]

Interesting discussion - some feedback from RL. I had to do with mines quite a bit during my career.

• we made a difference between hidden (usually dug in) mines or openly laid mines. although openly laid mines sometimes became hidden through sand or leaves being blown over them.
  
• the engineers never mapped single mines. just the area where the mines were laid was mapped and usually marked in the terrain. But these marks often got lost over time.
  
• in order to allow own troops to pass - eg us exfiltrating from a recon mission - gaps were left in the minefield. these gaps were always covered with fire - HMGs and Mortars - and usually ran in zig zags through the minefield to make it difficult to follow them. these gaps were marked with unsuspicious objects.
  

In CMBN you are able to create gaps in minefields as I mentioned above. At least I do this when I have larger fields.

[womble]

In CMBN you are able to create gaps in minefields as I mentioned above. At least I do this when I have larger fields.

Indeed, and the signs are even easier for the "uninitiated" friendly pTruppe to spot than the "inconspicuous" markers you'd have to use to stop the enemy waltzing down the approach avenue IRL... though even then, the dull red doesn't stand out too well against dirt and such terrain colours.

[CM1fan]

I have some personal experience with US personnel being victims of US laid mines. I was an assistant operations officer in the 2d engineer battalion of the 2d infantry division during the summer of 1967. The second inf div then held a twenty mile wide section of the DMZ north of Seoul, ROK. The division commander directed our battalion to construct a fence behind the DMZ and showed us on a topo map where he wanted the fence built.

My battalion commander told the division CG that the fence line went through US mine fields containing both AP and AT mines and asked if the fence line could be jogged around the fields. The CG said the line could not be changed.

The AT mines contained a lot of metal and were easy to locate with mine detectors. The AP mines had so little metal that their detector signature was indistinguishable from normal background noise.

The men clearing the fields found three AP mines, two at the cost of a foot each blown off by the found mine and the third by a man who heard and felt the mine's firing pin go off without the mine exploding. I knew the sergeant who had found the defective AP mine, and I bought him one of the many drinks he was given that evening at the NCO club.

[winkelried]

Indeed, and the signs are even easier for the "uninitiated" friendly pTruppe to spot than the "inconspicuous" markers you'd have to use to stop the enemy waltzing down the approach avenue IRL... though even then, the dull red doesn't stand out too well against dirt and such terrain colours.

Yep - Back in my CMx1 times I modded the mine markers too to be visible better.

[c3k]

I have some personal experience with US personnel being victims of US laid mines. I was an assistant operations officer in the 2d engineer battalion of the 2d infantry division during the summer of 1967. The second inf div then held a twenty mile wide section of the DMZ north of Seoul, ROK. The division commander directed our battalion to construct a fence behind the DMZ and showed us on a topo map where he wanted the fence built.

My battalion commander told the division CG that the fence line went through US mine fields containing both AP and AT mines and asked if the fence line could be jogged around the fields. The CG said the line could not be changed.

The AT mines contained a lot of metal and were easy to locate with mine detectors. The AP mines had so little metal that their detector signature was indistinguishable from normal background noise.

The men clearing the fields found three AP mines, two at the cost of a foot each blown off by the found mine and the third by a man who heard and felt the mine's firing pin go off without the mine exploding. I knew the sergeant who had found the defective AP mine, and I bought him one of the many drinks he was given that evening at the NCO club.

That was one lucky son of a gun. Damn.

[agusto]

This begs the question, "Why would mines attack people?"

Wich leads to the question if it makes a difference if i give mines "veteran" or "conscipt" experience in the editor. Will AT mines with -2 motivation run away if a tank approaches them? And what about the fitness of mines?

[winkelried]

Wich leads to the question if it makes a difference if i give mines "veteran" or "conscipt" experience in the editor. Will AT mines with -2 motivation run away if a tank approaches them? And what about the fitness of mines?

As the price doesn't change in QBs i would assume, that these paramters don't have an influence on mines and the like ... probably just something in the GUI which isn't very nice.

[poesel]

Can mines (in CM) only be detected by exploding them? Would units detect them if they are next to them long enough? Or only engineers? Would a unit that crawls through a minefield have a chance to detect them without explosion?

[womble]

Can mines (in CM) only be detected by exploding them? Would units detect them if they are next to them long enough? Or only engineers? Would a unit that crawls through a minefield have a chance to detect them without explosion?

The manual tells us that troops have a small chance of detecting mines by being near them, and engineers have a larger chance. I have seen engineers detect mines by being parked near them, but it took the better part of forever ("forever" in a tactical sense ) for the engineers to spot the nasty little presents. I haven't seen non-engineer troops spot any mine other than by the "oopsie" method, but I haven't had them lying near a suspected mine field for minutes at a time. As far as I've ever known, of course....