Nitouche Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Hello Everybody ! It appears that the preparation of a direct fire mortar is done only once during the game. Thus, once the first target is "found", the mortar can fire immediately and precisely on any place on the map, without delay. Is this normal ? The test in details (in French but with images... sorry, so sorry ...) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I've never noticed this...they've always taken time to turn towards the direction I've redirected them to before firing. You are saying if you give them a target in the opposite direction of where they are firing they will switch and immediately continue dropping rounds with no delay whatsoever? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I've never noticed this...they've always taken time to turn towards the direction I've redirected them to before firing. You are saying if you give them a target in the opposite direction of where they are firing they will switch and immediately continue dropping rounds with no delay whatsoever? Mord. I am not in a position to test, but I think he is also saying they don't care at all about LOS either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitouche Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 You are saying if you give them a target in the opposite direction of where they are firing they will switch and immediately continue dropping rounds with no delay whatsoever? It is not a matter of redirection but time of preparation. The first time a mortar fired, it performs a slow firing rate (about 2 rounds / minute) until it finds a good accuracy, and then fire with a high rate. But the second targeting, whatever the position (in LOS ! Always) of the target , the fire is quickly and accurately immediately...without preparation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 It is not a matter of redirection but time of preparation. The first time a mortar fired, it performs a slow firing rate (about 2 rounds / minute) until it finds a good accuracy, and then fire with a high rate. But the second targeting, whatever the position (in LOS ! Always) of the target , the fire is quickly and accurately immediately...without preparation. I am noticing this, on the receiving end, on one of my PBEMs where my opponent has several on-board mortars. I had assumed they were simply high experience and motivation troops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessian deserter Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This is why it is a good idea to use small circular targeting arc's with your Mortar teams when you do not want them to open fire on the first target they spot. I will also use a target light order with Mortar teams in DF mode to help conserve ammo..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitouche Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Yes, but that's a another question; a wise recommendation, but another problem 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I've just done some tests myself to replicate what Nitouche has discovered, and he is correct. Only the first target requires any ranging shots. Once a mortar team (I used a German 81mm, with Regular crew and +1 Leadership) has registered on one target, it can be firing for effect within about a quarter minute of arriving at a new firing position. No ranging shots are required, they just go to the selected rate (AFAP for Target, and "Fire when you see the last one land" for Light) and drop bombs 10-15s later on the Target Action Spot. Less than half a minute between arriving and starting to kill whatever's in the AS. Combined with the lack of setup time (nominally 46s for a German 81), no wonder people are complaining about the lethality of direct lay mortars. What should take about 3 minutes (arrive, deploy, fire first shot in 1st minute, observe and correct for another 2 minutes, maybe a bit less, begin FFE/first impact at the beginning of the 4th minute) is taking less than half a minute. BFC: Fix or do sumfink. Edit: it's present in FI too, so the upgrade to v2 won't get rid of this flaw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This is a good find. Touche' Nitouche. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Thanks for finding and verifying... Um, any savegames? Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Thanks for finding and verifying... Um, any savegames? Ken No need for save games, just start a QB (or edit up a quick scenario) with a mortar team on-map. You should get the 5 or 6 game minutes of time it takes to demonstrate the problem before the AI hassles you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitouche Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Thanks That occurs at any game, any time with any artillery in direct fire. It's not a strange and rare bug. it is a "mechanism" of the game. All saves can be used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This really is a game-breaker. Mortars become the be-all and end-all of anti-infantry weapons. There's no cover against them except remaining unseen, the only counter is to keep moving, and even then if the shooter "leads" right, it won't matter because it doesn't take a very near miss to send the moving troops to ground, and after that they're just "Sarajevo roses" waiting to happen. It seems like it's just a flag that isn't being reset: "QZeroedTgt", and it should be a trvial fix. I have to say I'm feeling like I can't play the game at the moment because of this SNAFU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Noted, and reported. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This really is a game-breaker. Mortars become the be-all and end-all of anti-infantry weapons. There's no cover against them except remaining unseen, the only counter is to keep moving, and even then if the shooter "leads" right, it won't matter because it doesn't take a very near miss to send the moving troops to ground, and after that they're just "Sarajevo roses" waiting to happen. It seems like it's just a flag that isn't being reset: "QZeroedTgt", and it should be a trvial fix. I have to say I'm feeling like I can't play the game at the moment because of this SNAFU. It is certainly intentional that a unit that has already adjusted fire onto a location should not have to adjust fire again on the same or nearby location when engaging a new target. The nearby part seems to be the issue here. Possibly there is a simple number error and 50m has become 500m or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitouche Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 No, because it also occurs when mortar fire....then mortar unit move to another location...deploy; and fire again on the same area or another. Wathever the circumstances, mortar do range shots Only during the first targeting. That's the "rule" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 It is certainly intentional that a unit that has already adjusted fire onto a location should not have to adjust fire again on the same or nearby location when engaging a new target. The nearby part seems to be the issue here. Possibly there is a simple number error and 50m has become 500m or something. As Nitouche says, it's not the nearby thing that's the issue. So far there's been approximately a kilometer between different aim points from different firing positions at the most (shoot 300-400m north, mount up, drive south 200-300m, shoot 300-400m south) in the tests I've done. IIRC. It's probably a bit less, cos the map I used is only a klom long, so call it 900m. If there's a distance boundary that's got shifted, it's got shifted to a number large enough not to fit on most maps, it seems. Still, it should be easy to find. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Mortars will also continue to fire on targets that are out of LOS after the mortar is moved, as long as the target order is not cancelled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 This might also explain the AIs magical ability to hit you with mortars out of the blue, with no spotters or target rps nearby. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 This issue which, it seems, connects with the deploy bug and the identification of spotted enemy units including squad and team affiliation need some loving attention from Battlefront. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 This issue which, it seems, connects with the deploy bug and the identification of spotted enemy units including squad and team affiliation need some loving attention from Battlefront. What makes you think the mortar target reset issue has anything at all to do with the working, intended (though admittedly somewhat incongruous and deserving of attention) behaviour of showing the unit details? I think it's more likely linked to the "Denied if spotter killed while call in progress" thing. Though you might be right about the deploy bug, but I think the mortar problem would have been spotted sooner if it had been about from the start like ISTR the deploy bug being. Or maybe that came in 1.01 and the mortar targetting not resetting came in 1.10. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 What makes you think the mortar target reset issue has anything at all to do with the working, intended (though admittedly somewhat incongruous and deserving of attention) behaviour of showing the unit details? Nothing. Just a couple of my CM desiderata. Nagging's part of the fun, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killkess Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 What is "sad" about this issue is that it was already reported back in the earliest CMBN times. There were multiple discussions about mortars changing fire from one moving target to the next (90 degrees to the right) without any delay and hitting first round. But we had enough fanboys jumping into the threads saying that mortars are that accurate and that there is nothing to look at. I also cant remember a official response from BFC to that topic. While i always had the feeling that there is something wrong with mortars i just can hope that BFC repsonses this time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I can't remember that discussion. Do you have a link? I do remember the problem with the spread patterns but that is something different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killkess Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I tried to bring up that topic for example in this discussion: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1313826&postcount=16 I remember it beeing discussed before and afterwards, thought i might be wrong. Granted, due to my bad english i wasnt able to realy get the discussion to the specific point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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