Sicilian terrain questions

[Childress]

I understand that palm trees were pretty common in Sicily particularly in the Southwest, near the beach fronts and around Mt Aetna. Roman coins found on the island show palm trees on the obverse. They appear to be absent from the game.

Vineyards: they're arduous for infantry to cross, unless it's with the grain. They provide next to zero concealment. And a vehicle attempting to traverse them ends up immobilized immediately. What's their function in game? Avoidance? This stock photo doesn't suggest a formidable barrier for grunts, though it may not be typical.

[barrage]

Maybe its the wires and the stakes that hold up all the plants (grapevines)?

[Charles Foulkes]

Maybe its the wires and the stakes that hold up all the plants (grapevines)?

It would be, yes. I don't know what vineyards in Sicily were like in the 40s, but the ones I've seen in Ontario are pretty densely packed with lots of stakes and wires, they would be fairly difficult to cross quickly against the grain.

[Childress]

Maybe its the wires and the stakes that hold up all the plants (grapevines)?

Yeah, I considered that.

From the photo it's clear why the vines provide little concealment in game.

[Sergei]

I understand that palm trees were pretty common in Sicily particularly in the Southwest, near the beach fronts and around Mt Aetna. Roman coins found on the island show palm trees on the obverse. They appear to be absent from the game.

Ehh, those are pretty clearly planted palm trees in a garden. I don't think they are common naturally. Take a look at Google Maps Streetview around Sicily, I think you will only find palm trees in tourist places.

Here's Torquay, British Riviera. I wouldn't say that palm trees are typical of British flora

[sburke]

Same here. At one point San Francisco and Las Vegas were almost at war over finding palm trees for different projects (at the time they were lining the whole Embarcadero area of the waterfront with them) but they aren't native despite how many of em homeowners keep planting. And what a mess. I dug one out of my yard. Hate the damn rat/pigeon infested things.

[Childress]

From Sicily Today:

'Much of the wild vegetation, like the papyrus, palm trees and stone pines, is typically Mediterranean, but certain fir trees are similar to species found in much cooler climates'

It mentions, however, that from Sicily in the south to the Italian Riviera in the north, tens of thousands of palm trees are dead or dying as a result of the insatiable appetite of an army of red palm weevils. Annoying little buggers.

As far as CMFI is concerned it all comes down to chrome anyway.

[sburke]

From Sicily Today:

typically Mediterranean

That is a really really broad statement.

Typically Terran - carbon based life forms.....

[beatmasta]

There's palm trees growing in Scotland as well!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plockton

And those vineyards should provide pretty good concealment if they are not observed parallel to the rows

[MikeyD]

Sicilian palm trees appear to be like Florida palm trees - imported for ornamentation, perhaps back in Roman times for commercial purposes too. The advantage of Google Earth is you can literally drive up and down the highways and byways of Sicily. I cannot recall ever seeing a copse of wild palm growing on a hillside. ... Ah, I just dropped into southern Sicily from Google Earth. There's two palm trees, acting a gate guardians to somebody's hacienda. But if you get yourself to a patch of high ground and look around you really don't see palm trees dotting the horizon.

[cool breeze]

I dug one out of my yard. Hate the damn rat/pigeon infested things.

I tried to chop a small one down in our yard and it was the hardest thing ever, they are more of a giant rope than a real tree. It was a huge waste cause we eventually had to dig it up anyway. what a pain.

[Sergei]

I tried to chop a small one down in our yard and it was the hardest thing ever, they are more of a giant rope than a real tree. It was a huge waste cause we eventually had to dig it up anyway. what a pain.

If you had played CMSF before the latest updates you would have known that palm trees can withstand direct hits from 155mm HE, and more!

[Fernando]

There are some "palmerales" (palm grove) in Spain. The Palmeral of Elche has about 200.000 palm trees and it is the larger one in Europe, but there are also a few others. All of them date from the Arab invasion. However AFAIK there are no "natural" palm groves in Spanish peninsula. The most common tree in Mediterranean Spain (the north of the peninsula has an Atlantic rainy climate and the interior areas a mild continental one) is the holm oak. Next comes the cork oak then the pine tree. Obviously there are other trees (i.e. I remember a famous small beech wood in Cataluña near Olot, La Fageda d'en Jordà) depending on local climate and the relief (beech and oaks trees in mountainous areas, Alpine vegetation in the Pyrenees etc.) but holm oak, cork oak and pine tree are the three most important Mediterranean trees. AFAIK no "natural" palm groves in the north coasts of western and central Mediterranean Sea.

I guess it happens the same in Sicily because we share iddentical Mediterranean climate (on the Spanish Mediterranean coast at least).

[theFightingSeabee]

I tried to chop a small one down in our yard and it was the hardest thing ever, they are more of a giant rope than a real tree. It was a huge waste cause we eventually had to dig it up anyway. what a pain.

I've got a huge one towering over the top of my house. It's a cool tree, but I'm worried about it falling through my living room.

[LongLeftFlank]

The Nero d'Avila (ancestor of Zinfandel) and Primitivo grapes that form the basis for most Sicilian wines have extremely sturdy, gnarly rootstocks; "old vines" can be as thick as small tree stumps. Add to that the vines, stakes and wires, and you have some pretty sturdy obstacles.

[sburke]

I think we all need to go to a winery and stroll out amongst the vines...with a bottle or two of course...each. We can then discuss the finer points of combat in a vineyard. Maybe grab some cheese and a baguette while we are at it. You need something to point with.

[sburke]

I've got a huge one towering over the top of my house. It's a cool tree, but I'm worried about it falling through my living room.

They are pretty tough to knock over. As cool breeze noted, the root mass is friggin ridiculous. It is more like a grass than a tree.

[LongLeftFlank]

I think we all need to go to a winery and stroll out amongst the vines...with a bottle or two of course...each. We can then discuss the finer points of combat in a vineyard. Maybe grab some cheese and a baguette while we are at it. You need something to point with.

I suggest Rombauer (Silverado Trail). Their tasting room is filled with signed photos of USAF test pilots, including Yeager. And their cab and El Dorado zin both rock -- huge and lush in the classic Napa style. (and no, I don't work there)

[dpabrams]

They are pretty tough to knock over. As cool breeze noted, the root mass is friggin ridiculous. It is more like a grass than a tree.

They are tough. When I lived in Ventura a drunken idiot took on one, head on in a Honda Civic at about 60 mph. The palm was in my front yard and the impact shook the house. The palm had hardly a scratch. The Honda was about 2 feet shorter and the driver was DRT.