Michael Emrys Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 IIRC this is already present in CMBN base game although not as common as the US gl. As is the Priest which JonS has highlighted in bold. I'm pretty sure that I have had German rifle grenades popped at me a number of times, so I think you are right about that. You are also right about the Priest, although it is only available off-map IIRC. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 You are also right about the Priest, although it is only available off-map IIRC. Michael The Priest shows up on-map. It shows up on-map, for instance, in the Montebourg campaign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Priest shows up on-map. It shows up on-map, for instance, in the Montebourg campaign. I stand corrected. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I stand corrected. Michael Ooh, quick everybody, stick that in yer sig 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Priest in CMFI is an earlier version, I believe. I will double check on that. edit: the M7B1 is in CMBN German GLs are available in CMBN via Infantry --> Grenadier Battalion --> Grenadier squad option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Priest in CMFI is an earlier version, I believe. I will double check on that. edit: the M7B1 is in CMBN German GLs are available in CMBN via Infantry --> Grenadier Battalion --> Grenadier squad option. Cool. Something else to fritter points away on in QBs... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Nice list. Thanks very much. What new Pz IV's exactly? F2s? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chek Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Artofwar, At the tactical level, Poland is NOT a pushover. John Kettler Definitely not,16,000 German casualties attest to that.The plan was to hold on untill France and England showed up as promised.Unfortunately the only other nation to show up was Russia and they hadn't come to help. The whole tank-cavalry thing was(to cut a long story short) nazi propaganda which the then allies were more than happy to run with along the lines of the Poles didn't stand a chance anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cireland65 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Well I still don't see anything exciting and new that CMBN:CW doesn't have except Italian units. Anyway, that was not the purpose of my post, I think there is more then enough interest in the early war years for the game to be developed because after CMFI there is going to be Russia with once again the same units as CMBB, just nicer looking. It sort of reminds me of movies; first you buy movie X on VHS, then it comes out on DVD so you buy X on DVD then it comes out on BR so you buy X on BR and now 3D, all the same product just looks nicer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Well I still don't see anything exciting and new that CMBN:CW doesn't have except Italian units. Anyway, that was not the purpose of my post, I think there is more then enough interest in the early war years for the game to be developed because after CMFI there is going to be Russia with once again the same units as CMBB, just nicer looking. It sort of reminds me of movies; first you buy movie X on VHS, then it comes out on DVD so you buy X on DVD then it comes out on BR so you buy X on BR and now 3D, all the same product just looks nicer. Isn't that what we do year after year, game after game, engine after engine? It was no different when we had cardboard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cireland65 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Isn't that what we do year after year, game after game, engine after engine? It was no different when we had cardboard. You must admit, going from AH Squad Leader to CMBN is like going to the moon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 You must admit, going from AH Squad Leader to CMBN is like going to the moon. Imagine being told back then you would eventually have it - but you have to wait 35 years? Now think about what we might have in 35 years from now (we'll probably all be retro and clamoring for...squad leader). Me, I'll likely be dead. oh wait no, the miracle of modern medicine, I'll be in a jar!!! Woohoooooo! Issuing telepathic commands to my holographic pixeltruppen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 You must admit, going from AH Squad Leader to CMBN is like going to the moon. You mean in 10 years' time we won't be able to play CMBN any more? Damn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Ha ha! By coincidence I had joked earlier "I'll likely be dead" but neglected to hit the 'reply' button. My standing joke is whatever the title is people will try to turn it into Normandy 1944. In CMBB they made 3rd party scenarios with lend-lease Shermans making believe they were in Normandy. Half the 3rd party CMAK scenarios were based in Normandy. I expect if we were to get a Poland invasion title people would be making etzats battles depicting Canadians fighting around Caen. The only title they don't seem to want to make Normandy scenarios in is CMBN! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 My standing joke is whatever the title is people will try to turn it into Normandy 1944. In CMBB they made 3rd party scenarios with lend-lease Shermans making believe they were in Normandy. Half the 3rd party CMAK scenarios were based in Normandy. I expect if we were to get a Poland invasion title people would be making etzats battles depicting Canadians fighting around Caen. The only title they don't seem to want to make Normandy scenarios in is CMBN! I'd give it a shot, but I'm spending all my time modding (and others are better at it). Knowing that CMBN will not become obsolete now (yay!), I'd imagine we'll still see a lot of love for Normandy scenarios in the coming years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fūrinkazan Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hi, It's strange to see that in wargames the war starts in 1944, see the close combat series etc... I think it's more a problem of market. We, the players are responsible of this. Everybody wants big german tanks, and that's why we have the Tiger II in the game while some other vehicles are not represented. From Poland to France i think that there are a lot of interresting scenarios to play. For exemple i'v been reading an article about Roman Orlik who destroyed 13 German tanks with is Tks tankette equiped with a 20 mm gun during the battle of Poland. Think also of the battle of Stonne and the B1 bis "RIQUEWIHR". I would like to see how the german tanks with their thiny armor would do against them. One B1 took 90 shots and was only destroyed by a 88 mm. When i play, i prefer to play with an old marder I than Panther or Tiger. Much more challenging tactically and much more fun. Really hope that one day BFC will make a serie of game about the early war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hi, It's strange to see that in wargames the war starts in 1944, see the close combat series etc... I think it's more a problem of market. We, the players are responsible of this. Early war= absence of Americans. The biggest market for wargames. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I think there's also perceived to be much less potential for what-ifs in the early war. The German war machine is generally assumed to be sufficiently superior that whatever happened, the only change to the result would be a delay. I think there's a much bigger perception (however far removed, or not, from the reality; I am not going there) that something could have let the Germans survive and kick the Allies out of Normandy, then turn round and stop-hit the Soviet steamroller somehow. So in some regards, people find Overlord and later to be more "exciting" than the first couple of years of the war that's seen as "getting your ass handed to you by the Germans again and again". To stress: I'm not commenting on the veracity or otherwise of such perceptions, just that it seems to be the way the media present that period of history to us, most of the time, which is either a reflection or a driver of the common understanding of things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fūrinkazan Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Early war= absence of Americans. The biggest market for wargames. I agree, but do Americans wargamers play only with U.S. troops ? Are they not interrested in other conflicts, different tactics etc.. ? Since i started playing wargames i've been playing with samourais and roman legions, the american civil war, napoleonic wars etc... Most of the time, wargamers are interrested in history too. That's the case for me and i guess also for american players, no ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fūrinkazan Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I think there's also perceived to be much less potential for what-ifs in the early war. The German war machine is generally assumed to be sufficiently superior that whatever happened, the only change to the result would be a delay. I think there's a much bigger perception (however far removed, or not, from the reality; I am not going there) that something could have let the Germans survive and kick the Allies out of Normandy, then turn round and stop-hit the Soviet steamroller somehow. So in some regards, people find Overlord and later to be more "exciting" than the first couple of years of the war that's seen as "getting your ass handed to you by the Germans again and again". To stress: I'm not commenting on the veracity or otherwise of such perceptions, just that it seems to be the way the media present that period of history to us, most of the time, which is either a reflection or a driver of the common understanding of things. Isn't it the case for the Germans at the end of the war ? They were able to delay the allied but the war was lost for them. For what-ifs, from a tactical point of view, i think the early war offers a lot of possibilities. I also think the way media present things may have a important part on the way people perceive the war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing 88's Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I just get this feeling that "Early war" modules will be made. It would make $ense no? I am hoping that CMFI will have a module (and let it cover the whole time period) for the North African campaign... Rommel is waiting. As for the Eastern Front... wouldn't it be sweet if that game engine / modules covered the same time period as CMBB eventually?? Yes, yes it would! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Most of the time, wargamers are interrested in history too. That's the case for me and i guess also for american players, no ? It's true for this American. But the battles in the from '44 on have remained more iconic in the collective imagination and have inspired more books and films. D-Day and the Bulge make for better box office than Kasserine Pass and Anzio. Sorry, that's just reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fūrinkazan Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You don't have to be sorry. I know that when people think of world war II they think about big german tanks, the Battle of the Bulge etc... I'm also sure that most american wargamers are as fans of history than the other. I was reading a very interresting french review called ""Guerre & Histoire" made by the magazine Science et Vie. The last one was about "the myth of the century : the german military superiority". They destroyed that myth but it's impossible to resume it here. In a part of the article they show books and game covers about WWII. They all have german soldiers or tank on the cover. If you want to sell books or games put a german on the cover is the best way. In fact it seems that history was written by the defeated and transform in a fascination for german troops. There is also the role of propaganda, i 've been writing in another thread about Wittmann at Villers Bocage. They also destroyed the myth of Pearl Harbor in another article. By the way, It's also strange that we don't have games about the pacific war. I think it's sometimes a fascination for german war machine for some people. Books and films follow the same rules than games, it's better for the sales. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Isn't it the case for the Germans at the end of the war ? They were able to delay the allied but the war was lost for them. I'm not talking about what was but what people think was. I would tend to agree that the writing was on the wall, and once Overlord had beaten the weather, Germany was doomed. Long term historical gamers probably agree with us, too, if they've read any history, but there are a lot of people out there who dabble in games who think the tide could have turned anytime. Or there's a lot of people who just like to see green beating the tar out of grey... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fūrinkazan Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I'm not talking about what was but what people think was. That's how i understood what you wrote. What i meant is that it's not because a war is lost in a strategical point of view that it's not an interresting subject for a tactical wargame. For exemple, the Pearl Harbor article conclusion was that it was the greatest disaster for the attacker not for the Americans. In fact they say that the Japanese cannot win the war, and a Japanese think tank had the same conclusion before the war but it was rejected by the military. But it's still an interresting subject for wargame and i remember playing naval wargame about the pacific campaign that was great. If i understand what you said, people think that's not interresting to play the early war because you cannot change the result. You certainly don't think this and i just wanted to point that people who think like that are wrong. For me, the Germans lost the war when they attacked the Russians in 1941, but that's only my point of view ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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