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Canister Ammo??


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There wasn't any canister ammo modeled in CMBO -- this was a feature added in CMBB.

As for canister in Normandy, I have never read of any German use of it in Normandy. IIRC, the German 75mm canister warheads were not very good for the long-barreled 75mm guns, and were better used from the short barrel 75mms on the early Stugs and PzIVs. So I think it's unlikely the Germans made any use of it in Normandy. But I suppose it's possible some units somewhere had some. There was a lot of older equipment and ordnance in some Axis formations in Normandy, something that CMBN doesn't model much right now. Hopefully, we'll get some of this rarer equipment in the final "Odds 'n Sods" module to CMBN.

There was also a canister round for the U.S. 37mm gun. It seems to have been fairly popular in the PTO, and I've read multiple accounts of it being used there, both from the AT gun mount and also from vehicle mounts like the Stuart. ISTR that way back in CMBO days someone posted here on the BFC forums a couple of accounts of 37mm canister being used in Normandy by U.S. forces, but I wouldn't swear to this... could be a faulty recollection on my part.

Edit to add: IIRC, it was the Russians that made the heaviest use of canister, fielding it for both their 76.2mm and 45mm guns. This was reflected in CMBB and I expect we'll see this again once CM returns to the East Front. How canister gets modeled with CMx2's 1:1 projectile modeling should be very interesting...

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I wonder why it would be any harder to model than a arty shell explosion.

I find it interesting now to watch them. Sometimes men can be lucky and survive a near hit. Other times, men will drop when they are at the fridge of the shrapnal range. It is a very random event as to where the shrapnal goes.

Anyway, it seems it would take the same type of logic , however they are doing it.

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I wonder why it would be any harder to model than a arty shell explosion.

Do you think that an artillery shell explosion is easy to model? ;) Artillery is common as bread so it has to be modelled no matter how much effort it takes to simulate, while canister fire is a lot more marginal, overall. Canisters, flamethrowers, bayonets etc. fall in that category that I hope will all be modelled sooner than later, but they don't really make or break the game.

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I wonder why it would be any harder to model than a arty shell explosion.

I find it interesting now to watch them. Sometimes men can be lucky and survive a near hit. Other times, men will drop when they are at the fridge of the shrapnal range. It is a very random event as to where the shrapnal goes.

Anyway, it seems it would take the same type of logic , however they are doing it.

More like modeling 122 simultaneous rifle shots, actually.

Anyway, did some scrounging around the web, and found this citation from "Steel Victory" Harry Yeide on another discussion board:

M5's in the 735th Tank Battalion, for example carried 70 percent of their

ammo load in the form of canister during hedgerow fighting.

Mr. Yeide's work is generally very well researched, so this would appear to confirm that at least some U.S. units made heavy use of 37mm canister in Normandy.

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Im sure Ive read about canister being used in the m4's 75mm during the bocage fighting.

When breaching an occupied hedgrerow, 3 shermans would drive through in line abreast with the outside two loaded with canister and turrets rotated left and right to blast the hedgrow being breached while the centre tank would fire HE at the next row. Please correct me if I have this wrong.

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Im sure Ive read about canister being used in the m4's 75mm during the bocage fighting.

When breaching an occupied hedgrerow, 3 shermans would drive through in line abreast with the outside two loaded with canister and turrets rotated left and right to blast the hedgrow being breached while the centre tank would fire HE at the next row. Please correct me if I have this wrong.

There was a canister round for the 75mm M2/M3/M6, but I've only ever read of it being used in the Pacific. Certainly not impossible that some made it into the ETO, though. Tactics in the hedgerows seemed to vary a lot from unit to unit, with one battalion finding one way of solving the tactical problems the terrain presented, while another similar unit did something completely different.

I have more commonly read of WP being used for this purpose in Normandy -- the major advantage of WP over HE being that even if the WP doesn't directly wound enemy infantry near the impact point, it forces them to evacuate the area until the smoke clears (WP smoke is caustic and burns the eyes, nose, throat and lungs). In this way, WP smoke can be more effective against heavily dug-in infantry than HE.

This is not a tactic that can be easily modeled in the game right now. You can order a tank to fire smoke at a target area, and there is some chance that the smoke rounds will cause casualties, but AFAICT there isn't any "forced evacuation" effect to WP smoke.

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I miss the canister rounds too, and am surprised they were not included. It really does make the M8 hound so much more effective, and do recall the rounds making all the difference in saving the day in a few PBEM’s in CMx1.Hopefully we will see their return along with flame weapons in the future.

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I miss the canister rounds too, and am surprised they were not included. It really does make the M8 hound so much more effective, and do recall the rounds making all the difference in saving the day in a few PBEM’s in CMx1.Hopefully we will see their return along with flame weapons in the future.

Yes, taking out 8 of 10 guys with a single blast. And the other two are straight to broken/routed.

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