what is this?

[fabiovir]

http://youtu.be/r72Rimhlcj8

what do you think about this?

[RockinHarry]

Proof that western front combat wasn´t that violent after all?

Looks like they settled for some Schnaps and discuss who has taken who into captivity...

[hoolaman]

Looks like some kind of modern dance routine to me.

[Lt Belenko]

Who's grass mod are you using? Or Who's grass mod were they smoking?

[mjkerner]

Peace for our time?

[noob]

Maybe it's Christmas ?

[vonRocko]

http://youtu.be/r72Rimhlcj8

what do you think about this?

I think it is ridiculous, and all people can do is make jokes about it because it is so pathetic.

[c3k]

Hmm, ignoring the above comment, what, exactly, did that clip show? I mean, did you plot some sort of back and forth movement order to create the clip? Or, if this behavior is NOT what you wanted, what orders had you given the two teams? If, as I suspect, the behavior is not what you expected, do you have a savegame?

[noob]

I think it is ridiculous, and all people can do is make jokes about it because it is so pathetic.

Given that a situation where two teams from opposing sides are out of ammo and close enough to get hand to hand is so bloody unlikely i can see why BF never bothered to do the programming for hand to hand combat with CMBN, maybe with the Russian Front version it will be in there given the fighting at Stalingrad, so chill mate and be glad that the game is 99.9% awesome.

p.s.....This is the message that you posted originally as it showed up in the email notification i received: "I think it is ridiculous, and all people can do is make jokes about it because it is so pathetic for the "Game of the year".

So you removed the bit at the end about game of the year, and quite rightly, how can such a trivial thing spoil such a good game ?, anybody that cannot see that doesn't know what a game is

[Myles Keogh]

Hmm, ignoring the above comment, what, exactly, did that clip show? I mean, did you plot some sort of back and forth movement order to create the clip? Or, if this behavior is NOT what you wanted, what orders had you given the two teams? If, as I suspect, the behavior is not what you expected, do you have a savegame?

He's complaining that once units run out of ammo then they'll do nothing to fight each other since the game does not model hand-to-hand combat. (For those who don't have access to youtube: he has an American team and a German team both presumably with no ammo loadouts walking within 10 meters of each other in a featureless field and they're not fighting. He then wonders in his text about how could an award winning wargame not model fighting with bayonets, knives, rifle-butts, and fists.)

Hand-to-hand combat, like tank riders, flame weapons, burning terrain all which were also modeled in CMx1, was sacrificed during CMBN's development as not being cost effective to being coded in. (More specifically it probably was coding the animations of the individual soldiers that made it cost prohibitive.) I'm sure Battlefront would have loved to model it in, but to do it properly would have taken an inordinate amount of time for something that didn't happen too often on WWII battlefields despite a billion war movies showing the opposite.

[Medex]

Looks like someone is trying to bash the game.

So anyway.. maybe this week the CW mod will be released.. we can only hope. Looking forward to it.

[fabiovir]

I have all CM version CMBO, CMBB, CMAK, CMSF+MARINES+NATO(only Btitish module never bought) CMA, CMBN, and waiting for CW module, and ost front, Vietnam, Falkland, Modern Africa war....

I like very much this game and to see this i am very sad.....sorry....

i hope in the next future....

[vonRocko]

Apparently some of you see nothing wrong with combatants just dancing around each other. Yes, for a 'game of the year" product, this is pathetic.

[vonRocko]

Looks like someone is trying to bash the game.

.

I like the game, I just feel neglecting close combat is laziness on the developers part.

[Wreck]

I think they should have modeled unarmed CC and used whatever animations were at hand. Then we would get whiners complaining about the animation mismatch, but at least the fundaments would be there.

That said, if you are pushing unarmed pixeltruppen into CC, then:

(1) You are probably using them wrong.

(2) You are acting in a very ahistorical fashion.

As such, it is a very understandable lacuna.

[Medex]

I like the game, I just feel neglecting close combat is laziness on the developers part.

Not sure what the developers feel about this one. But often they say they don't have the resources at the moment to implement some of this stuff. Or they are working on getting it into the game. Who am I to say they are lying. I guess you will have to wait and see and join the ranks of "I want this in the game" crowd. If enough folk persistently and politely communicate their requests then maybe their wishes may come true.*

After awhile of hanging out here you will notice there is no shortage of opinions on how things should be.

[noob]

I like the game, I just feel neglecting close combat is laziness on the developers part.

How you could call anyone involved in developing the CM series lazy is beyond me, you obviously have no experience of creating large complex tasks within certain fiscal and temporal limitations.

Given how much BF have put into the game that's right or getting there, and how rare it was for troops in the Western theatre to go hand to hand, i think it's churlish to attack the game for that omission, i personally have never played a game where my troops had no ammo at all at the end, in fact it's something i suspect most players experience, at the end of a game they have too much ammo left, and therefore i have failed to maximise the troops combat potential, and also any troops i have had with extremely low ammo levels are usually blown and couldn't fight hand to hand from excessive cowering.

[vonRocko]

How you could call anyone involved in developing the CM series lazy is beyond me, you obviously have no experience of creating large complex tasks within certain fiscal and temporal limitations.

Given how much BF have put into the game that's right or getting there, and how rare it was for troops in the Western theatre to go hand to hand, i think it's churlish to attack the game for that omission, i personally have never played a game where my troops had no ammo at all at the end, in fact it's something i suspect most players experience, at the end of a game they have too much ammo left, and therefore i have failed to maximise the troops combat potential, and any troops i have had with extremely low ammo levels are usually blown and couldn't fight hand to hand from excessive cowering.

Thanks for removing the insults.

[Guest]

It would take a VERY long time to create the art and code to make close combat work. Months, probably, and that's ignoring the amount of animation work that would be necessary, which would be extensive. So what you're saying is that this thing - that happens comparatively rarely - is more important than anything else we could be spending those months on. And the only alternative is that we're "lazy"?

If we were all explicitly NOT working on close combat so we could take a two-month vacation that *might* be laziness. Instead we're spending those months working on things you see in game. That's prioritization, not laziness.

[noob]

Thanks for removing the insults.

Your welcome, i have a short fuse like you when i experience something i don't like about the game, but i always find i should of thought a bit more before posting, if only to calm down and be more polite, which is why i amended my original post.

[Guest]

Let's try not to insult each other, guys. That said, when I spent my third son's first week in the hospital sitting in a hospital chair making final builds of CMBN (and the next week working out of a surgery bed), calling me, or any of us, "lazy" feels pretty insulting. Maybe lay off the personal attacks on all sides, please.

[vonRocko]

Let's try not to insult each other, guys. That said, when I spent my third son's first week in the hospital sitting in a hospital chair making final builds of CMBN (and the next week working out of a surgery bed), calling me, or any of us, "lazy" feels pretty insulting. Maybe lay off the personal attacks on all sides, please.

You're right, I apologise for saying lazy, the word is neglectful. Forget animation, it doesn't have to be sophisticated, just some system to resolve hand to hand. I don't know why some say this is rare, (ok, running out of ammo is rare), but I get troops in hand to hand range frequently.

[usgubgub]

How likely is it that an out of ammo American HQ or FOO group would move up to and parade around a German patrol in completely open terrain?

Have the people who are pushing this point read anything about modern combat psychology or do they seriuosly believe fighting men are all John Wayne, Rambo or Chuck Norris types who are just itching to get down to some lethal hand to hand with the opposition?

During both World Wars soldiers from all sides actively tried to avoid direct confrontation at close range with the enemy. It was not uncommon for chance encounters at that range to resolve themselves by both sides walking away. CMBN is a tactical small unit combat simulation, not a first person shooter.

The video is not pathetic, posting it to try to make that point is.

[Guest]

Apology accepted. Thanks. We don't generally talk about the effort that we put into the game, so I expect it may at times seem trivial from the outside ("just" new models, all of which require research and code and testing and...) but one thing we're definitely *not* is lazy.

The problem with not doing some kind of animation is that suddenly we'd have guys dying for no visible reason. There has to be some kind of feedback associated with it.

[vonRocko]

The problem with not doing some kind of animation is that suddenly we'd have guys dying for no visible reason. There has to be some kind of feedback associated with it.

But the players would know that those casualties came from the close combat, and a simple rifle swinging animation would be all that is needed to show that close combat is taking place.