Wodin Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Are any if our esteemed scenario\campaign makers thinking of doing an Op Sealion once the Commonwealth module gets released? Would be a nice change to France. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 On one hand an alternate history "Seelöwe 1944" type of campaign might be fun, although in essence I don't know how it would differ from any Normandy campaign. The countryside in southern England is not that different from Normandy (which is more than just bocage). Maybe I'm mistaken. If you mean a 1940 Sealion, I don't think that's doable. Another brilliant campaign idea would be a German invasion of US/Canadian East Coast, in the best Panzer General fashion. But I think that would be best left for the Bulge game so that you can have all the late war superheavies in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG TOW Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I had to look twice. For a second I though I was on the Civilization V forum. No seriously, nothing wrong with "what if" campaigns. Sea lion with Brit ports would be very entertaining. There are just so many untapped historical scenarios to recreate. When we have 2 different branches of Germans available to mod, and winter scenery I would like see to the Lapland war, recreated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 When we have 2 different branches of Germans available to mod, and winter scenery I would like see to the Lapland war, recreated. Buuuuut... most of the fighting in the Lapland war (eg. the Battle for Tornio) happened before snow, and I don't really see how you could represent Finnish infantry with anything in either German or Allied arsenals. The rifle squad would need to be 9 men, 2 with Suomi SMG, 1 with Lahti-Saloranta or DP LMG, and 6 with rifles. German LMG's and BAR absolutely don't compare, I think Bren is the closest. But Sten is not comparable to Suomi... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Also, an actual CM Sealion game would be sweet as it would give us the Standard Beaverette. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 A Sealion '40 is simply the wrong era. Much of the equipment and some of the organization is just wrong. To do anything in the early war era will require a dedicated effort by BFC to get all the modeling right. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The countryside in southern England is not that different from Normandy (which is more than just bocage). Welllllllll, not exactly. The parts of England that most resemble Normandy lie in the southwest, which is not where the Sealion landings were scheduled to take place. But that's a minor objection as I think the terrain in southeast England can be duplicated with the elements already in the game, except maybe some of the architecture. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Welllllllll, not exactly. The parts of England that most resemble Normandy lie in the southwest, which is not where the Sealion landings were scheduled to take place. Like I said, Michael, Normandy is not just bocage. If you consider Normandy (and the surrounding areas that might be considered relevant for the game's timeframe) as a whole, you get all kinds of terrain. From wide open pastures to tiny bocage fields, steep hills of "Suisse Normandie" to very flat areas at the coast, and small hamlets to large cities. What's interesting about the 21st AG sector is that it includes all of these elements. And everything inbetween! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The parts of France that most resemble Kent and Sussex are, I believe, north of the Seine. But anyway, as I wrote before, they can be modeled reasonably accurately with the elements already in the game. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The parts of France that most resemble Kent and Sussex are, I believe, north of the Seine. But anyway, as I wrote before, they can be modeled reasonably accurately with the elements already in the game. Michael Oh, I don't disagree. It's just that there is so much subregional variety even within one department, and Combat Mission's tactical environment usually suffices to cover one 'type' of terrain, that it would be hard to tell the difference between a random location in Normandy and a random location in SE England. Like, this is Heathfield in east Sussex: The only way you can tell is that the car on the right lane is coming toward you! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat_of_war Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 its an interesting idea thats for sure.the ultimate what if sea lion '44 anyone if anyone is considering it ive got a 1942 handbook on the british army wrote by the us army (the extensive vocabulary translation is amusing) and a 1941 homeguard manual With other untapped ideas..if anyone is interested in doing a dieppe raid scenario or campaign ive got maps, and aerial recon photos from the time of it and documents from the planning through to personal stories and a document from german scources 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I am up for that. Once the new Module comes out I will start in on some battles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Hard to imagine that people considered it cutting edge and futuristic when it was created. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hard to imagine that people considered it cutting edge and futuristic when it was created. Sometimes it is a bit of a shock to see how archaic looking some of the early war (through the end of '42 at least) vehicles and equipment are. But then, some of it, especially in the smaller countries, was basically the same designs found in the 1890-1920 period. And lest that seem bizarre, consider that most of the world's militaries are at present equipped with 40 year old designs that they have only recently gotten around to replacing with newer designs. Granted, many of those older designs have gone through several stages of upgrade to the point that any resemblance to their original forms may not be much more than superficial. Still, many of those original forms may be serving somewhere. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 And lest that seem bizarre, consider that most of the world's militaries are at present equipped with 40 year old designs The liberation of Kuwait is closer in time to the end of the Vietnam war than it is to today. Something like a third of the worlds current population wasn't yet born when Saddam invaded Kuwait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Also, an actual CM Sealion game would be sweet as it would give us the Standard Beaverette. Nice Beaver! ette. Regards KR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurpo Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Heh. That reminds me, I'd pay serious money for Poland '39, Finland '39-'40, France '40 or Barbarossa modules. All those crap tanks are somehow cute... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Look at a Tiger, compared to a KV1, T-34, or Sherman the former looks very dated, even in the 1940's timeframe. Slab sided armour and a massive horseshoe turret that looks like it comes from a reduced scale WWI Battlecruiser, only the multi-leaved suspension gives it an air of modernity. For sure antiquity though, the Churchill 'look' must be hard to beat, looking like an armoured centipede with a turret strapped on it, it fought through till 45! Talking of archaic, what strikes me is the basic uniform of the German infantryman, compared to say the British/US (the US wins the visual modernity war hands down). Sure the oakleaft, splinter, pea dot etc camo smocks look kewl, but take a look at the load carrying gear, pure 1880's! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Talking of archaic, what strikes me is the basic uniform of the German infantryman, compared to say the British/US (the US wins the visual modernity war hands down). Sure the oakleaft, splinter, pea dot etc camo smocks look kewl, but take a look at the load carrying gear, pure 1880's! I disagree, Nazis uniforms represented, imo, the dernier cri in battlefield couture- really snazzy. I'm now looking at the photo of my great-great grandad, his moon face glowing with righteous ardor, hanging on the wall resplendent in his confederate grays- complete with watch fob. This pic, the original print, was taken in Tennessee in 1862. Honestly his threads looks a lot cooler than those Union blue smouits. I'd attach a jpg but it's probably fragile and I'm afraid to detach it from the frame. Theory: the side with the niftiest uniforms inevitably loses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 True, the uniforms in the 1880's were snazzy, but seriously, leather for your webbing gear, outdated gas mask canisters, jackboots, in the 1940's? The debate was not about relative snazziness but degrees of outdatedness. German basic infantry kit was outdated, compared to the US and Commonwealth troops, you can get away with using a rifle from the previous century, but when you troops are wearing uniform from it, it just looks, how shall we say, dated. The Panzer troops though made an effort, functional, utilitarian and black, good job most of their later tanks did not possess the first two qualities! Theory, the side with the greatest industrial base and an ability to mobilise it for war wins. My ACW knowledge is minimal, but is it true Confederate uniforms were often hand tailored, whereas the industrial North mass produced most of theirs, I certainly know it was true for alot of the weaponry. I have a period naval sabre and it looks like one of thousands, even the blade shows no sign of any craftsmanship and its balance is truly abysmal, nothing like as good as my Norman Broadsword (both weighted toward the tip to deliver a slashing blow) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat_of_war Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 there is a reason the uniforms looked snazzy.. take the hitler youth uniforms.. manufactured by hugo boss 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 IIRC all the SS uniforms, maybe Wehrmacht as well, were designed by Hugo Boss. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If we're going to debate who had the coolest uniforms, I have to ask: Has anyone ever surpassed Napoleon's armies? Especially the uniforms of the marshals and generals. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Look at a Tiger, compared to a KV1, T-34, or Sherman the former looks very dated, even in the 1940's timeframe. Slab sided armour and a massive horseshoe turret that looks like it comes from a reduced scale WWI Battlecruiser, only the multi-leaved suspension gives it an air of modernity. I have to completely disagree with you here. The Tiger looks so damn menacing and purposeful. It is the quintessential tank design in my book. Much like how people love muscle cars from the 70's as being the perfect car look with their invariably boxy design and no consideration for coefficient drag, the same applies to the Tiger. Who needs svelte sloped armour when all you need is lots of it to do the same job. Much like the old muscle cars that relied on pure V8 grunt for their speed rather than sleek design. The Tiger 1 is a 'real mans' tank as opposed to a fancy Pershing which is a quiche eating, metrosexual equivalent! Regards KR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Look at a Tiger, compared to a KV1, T-34, or Sherman the former looks very dated, even in the 1940's timeframe. Slab sided armour and a massive horseshoe turret that looks like it comes from a reduced scale WWI Battlecruiser, only the multi-leaved suspension gives it an air of modernity. For sure antiquity though, the Churchill 'look' must be hard to beat, looking like an armoured centipede with a turret strapped on it, it fought through till 45! Yes, just like the archaic slab sides on the Abrams, Leclerc, Challenger, Leopard 2 etc etc ? or the horse shoe turret of the Centurion ? All of which use simple single line of road wheels suspension. Very few, or no, tanks use the fragile and over complicated German multi interleaved road wheel set up. So really slab sided = modern, multi wheel suspension = outdated. Agree with you on the Churchill, in fact it fought on past 45 into Korea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.