Editor Suggestions

[Pak40]

So, in the middle of designing my first campaign, I have some suggestions that would really help designers with some of the time consuming aspects of battle/campaign design. Hopefully these improvements can be added to CMx2 at some point in future modules if not the Commonwealth module.

Some of these, I'm sure, have already been discussed on this forum. Feel free to add suggestions or feedback.

I'm listing these in order of ease to program (at least in my view, others may prove me wrong)

1. Copy / Paste AI Plan - often I use several slight variations of AI plans in a battle. Sometimes setups are identical or with slight variation, sometimes the orders or start times are varied slightly. I think it would save designers a lot of time if you could make a plan, copy it, and then modify the parts that you want changed in the copy.

2. Bitmap Overlay for the map - The easy way to do this is to enable windowed mode at least for the editor (if possible). This will allow designers to use a third party software cThruview to overlay bitmap images on top of the editor to trace maps or aerial photos.

The harder but probably more desirable way to do this is to incorporate a bitmap overlay into the map editor itself.

3. Auto Road/hedge configuration - Place two points on the map and the configurator will automatically draw a continuous stretch of road between the two points with as few turns and as few tiles as possible. Will also automatically add T's and Y's when it intersects existing roads. Designer will still have the ability to edit individual tiles as necessary.

[nik mond]

I use AI routines to move small units, platoons and sometimes individual vehicles from hull down position, and bounding leaps to the next position of cover, all timed. Unless you have every mound and bush in the same position on different maps I don't see how cutting a pasting AI plans is really that useful.

Great Ideas for # 2 and # 3 tho. And topic.

I would like to see more blending texture tiles. There are only 3 ground tiles that mix with the tile texture next to them. The remainder keep their square shape. especially when laid in a diagonal direction.

Also curved roads would be nice.

[GhostRider3/3]

I would like to see some more of the following.

Building Art. Large wording etc.. on the sides or back of some of the buildings.

More Poster Art.

More Bridges, Church setcions, and more business type structures.

Anyhow, thanks to the BF team for again making a great game.

[Pak40]

I use AI routines to move small units, platoons and sometimes individual vehicles from hull down position, and bounding leaps to the next position of cover, all timed. Unless you have every mound and bush in the same position on different maps I don't see how cutting a pasting AI plans is really that useful.

I think you misunderstand. I didn't mean copy/paste between different maps. I mean copy/paste the PLAN in the same map. You can set several different plans in the same battle. As it is now, you have to create each AI plan from scratch. It would be nice to be able to set up AI Plan #1, then copy it to AI Plan #2. At this point you only need change what you want to be different (as opposed to creating the entire Plan #2 from scratch).

Great Ideas for # 2 and # 3 tho. And topic.

thanks!

I would like to see more blending texture tiles. There are only 3 ground tiles that mix with the tile texture next to them. The remainder keep their square shape. especially when laid in a diagonal direction.

I hadn't noticed this or haven't really paid that much attention to blending.

Also curved roads would be nice.

Yes indeed! Unfortunately this wont happen until BFC adopts a vector based mapping system, something I lobbied for back in the CMx1 days. Maybe CMx3 will go vector but that's a looong way off.

[Pak40]

I would like to see some more of the following.

Building Art. Large wording etc.. on the sides or back of some of the buildings.

More Poster Art.

More Bridges, Church setcions, and more business type structures.

Anyhow, thanks to the BF team for again making a great game.

While this would certainly improve the look of the game, my intention of the thread is really about improvements to the editor that would help save scenario designers a lot of time. Sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk, I'm just trying to keep this on topic.

[Sgt Schultz]

+1 to all Pakman's suggestions. ESPECIALLY the AI copy/paste.

My suggestions... while not helping speed up the process, these are things I feel are needed.

Adjustable HE/Smoke ratio for off-map support. Ami 107mm is only off-map resource that has a decent HE/smoke ratio.

1 minute Reinforcements instead of 5(para drops).

MORE GROUPS!

Triggers.

Fix diagonal narrow pathing. Center-of-action-spot vehicle travel makes a few diagonal choices non-starters. Sucks to spend all that time making an alley that no vehicle can travel down.

LOS checker in 2D editor from center-of-spot to center-of-spot.

[Pak40]

Thanks for the feedback!

I just thought of another helpful feature for the map editor specifically: UNDO command

How many times have we all accidentally placed a big blob of terrain over an already designed section of map? An undo command would be a welcome time saving addition even if it only undo's the last click on the map.

[Fredrock1957]

I agree with all of Pak40's ideas, it would be nice to fill out AI Plan 1 and have an option that all the other plans fill in the same groups/orders (then you can go to Plan 2 and take it off 'Not-Used' and make modifications to any of the groups/orders...

The layout of roads would be nice, though I don't think it would be cost effective IMO...

Overlay or imposed maps would be a nice feature also... but right now I am using a duel monitor setup and I have a square grid overlay for 100m or 50m Google maps... So I put that up on one monitor and use the editor in the other to copy the info... it is to scale.... see below...

An UNDO Button would be just AWESOME...

[Pak40]

I've done a similar thing with a professional mapping software ArcGIS. I made a vector 8x8m grid for a full square km and then used 1947 imagery from this French site mentioned in another thread. I georectified the 1947 imagery using already rectified modern day imagery, then I overlay my square km grid anywhere I want to. I have been printing out the maps instead of using a second monitor. It works well but still is a slower method that heads up tracing.

I suppose I could print the map onto a transparent film and then tape it to my monitor but it would have to print exactly to one of the available zoom scales that CMBN uses and I wont be able pan.

[permanent666]

I've done a similar thing with a professional mapping software ArcGIS. I made a vector 8x8m grid for a full square km and then used 1947 imagery from this French site mentioned in another thread. I georectified the 1947 imagery using already rectified modern day imagery, then I overlay my square km grid anywhere I want to. I have been printing out the maps instead of using a second monitor. It works well but still is a slower method that heads up tracing.

I suppose I could print the map onto a transparent film and then tape it to my monitor but it would have to print exactly to one of the available zoom scales that CMBN uses and I wont be able pan.

dammit why did i forget this link! we really need a sticky threads with usefull links for mapmakers.

[RockinHarry]

So, in the middle of designing my first campaign, I have some suggestions that would really help designers with some of the time consuming aspects of battle/campaign design. Hopefully these improvements can be added to CMx2 at some point in future modules if not the Commonwealth module.

Some of these, I'm sure, have already been discussed on this forum. Feel free to add suggestions or feedback.

I'm listing these in order of ease to program (at least in my view, others may prove me wrong)

1. Copy / Paste AI Plan - often I use several slight variations of AI plans in a battle. Sometimes setups are identical or with slight variation, sometimes the orders or start times are varied slightly. I think it would save designers a lot of time if you could make a plan, copy it, and then modify the parts that you want changed in the copy.

2. Bitmap Overlay for the map - The easy way to do this is to enable windowed mode at least for the editor (if possible). This will allow designers to use a third party software cThruview to overlay bitmap images on top of the editor to trace maps or aerial photos.

The harder but probably more desirable way to do this is to incorporate a bitmap overlay into the map editor itself.

3. Auto Road/hedge configuration - Place two points on the map and the configurator will automatically draw a continuous stretch of road between the two points with as few turns and as few tiles as possible. Will also automatically add T's and Y's when it intersects existing roads. Designer will still have the ability to edit individual tiles as necessary.

+1

With regard to 2., I´d also wish for a heightmap/terrain map import solution that numerous other games use for 3D landscape creation. These to be imported maps could be prepared (for import) in external applications, of which most are freely available in the net (Gimp, L3DT to name a few).

Currently the map editor is highly unsuited for recreation of historical landscapes, particularly the larger ones. I do neither have a printer or dual monitor setup and very limited time to work on historical landscape stuff with the current map editor layout, thus sticking to experimental and fantasy maps for the time beeing.

What about a switchable 1km grid and 100m sub grid overlay visible in each 2D zoom level? I currently use an expedient made of differently painted gound tiles for a prototype map. The gray lines is the 1km grid. Roman I-I indicates the x1000 - y1000m position:

Note: I´ll use this pure sand map for creation of contours first. It´s faster to work with, particularly on larger maps, when there´s no foliage and grass yet, which can be added, once the contours are done.

While we´re at it: What about a delete whole map function with a particular terrain type? "New" creates a 320x320m default map with a number of grass types. I´d like to change the "default" to any size map / terrain type with a single click, when so desired. In example "new map" of 2048x2048m size, plain grass1 (or any other).

I´d also like to have an option to place damaged trees. Could be "easily" implemented by use of the crater tiles worked on the terrain in question.

I´d imagine this to be a mode selector, where placing craters works either without damaging objects, or with each subsequnt click does more damage. In the trees example: 1 click = few branches removed, 2nd click more branches removed, 3rd click = just the stump(s) remain. The routines are basically in the game yet, as shelling forrested areas proof.

Thinking about this more, a simple DAMAGE (objects) routine should even work better, so you can place craters independently from damaged objects in the same AS. This enables using craters as expedient foxholes in an otherwise undamaged forest.

so far....

[A Canadian Cat]

I agree with all of Pak40's ideas,

<snip>

+1. I have not got to the point of working with AI plans but the first thing I will want (after undo) will be copy and paste.

That is what I want my map editor to look like when I am working. I am sad to say that all my map making plans are on hold because it is just too painful to create an historical map. I do not have a a lot of game hours so I need to be productive when I am working on a map. Trying to guesstimate off a print out to get the contours right is just not working for me.

An UNDO Button would be just AWESOME...

Amen to that!

[Sarge]

Thanks for the feedback!

I just thought of another helpful feature for the map editor specifically: UNDO command

How many times have we all accidentally placed a big blob of terrain over an already designed section of map? An undo command would be a welcome time saving addition even if it only undo's the last click on the map.

yes PLEASE! small quick errors, i found right clicking can cure.. but a massive (start area) oops, requires a jump back to a prior 'save' and that can be equally less attractive

[permanent666]

Please give us editor hotkeys!!!!!

(i guess) simple fix which saves a lot of time and clicking. not only for us but for you (BF) as well

[Pak40]

+1

With regard to 2., I´d also wish for a heightmap/terrain map import solution that numerous other games use for 3D landscape creation. These to be imported maps could be prepared (for import) in external applications, of which most are freely available in the net (Gimp, L3DT to name a few).

Yes, an import of Digital Elevation Models (DEM) would be an incredible addition, but one that is probably impractical to develop.

Honestly IMO, the Elevation editor is the absolute best part of the entire editing experience. I found it very easy to recreate historical elevations based on topographic maps. The way BFC has implemented this is pure genius.

Currently the map editor is highly unsuited for recreation of historical landscapes, particularly the larger ones. I do neither have a printer or dual monitor setup and very limited time to work on historical landscape stuff with the current map editor layout, thus sticking to experimental and fantasy maps for the time beeing.

This would be remedied with an overlay feature. It would also help to change the entire map making to a vector format so we could do those curvy medieval street layouts but this isn't going to happen.

What about a switchable 1km grid and 100m sub grid overlay visible in each 2D zoom level? I currently use an expedient made of differently painted gound tiles for a prototype map. The gray lines is the 1km grid. Roman I-I indicates the x1000 - y1000m position:

Good idea. I am often counting tiles to judge distance and this would help a great deal. I have learned to use the XY position to help judge distance but a 100m grid would be even better.

While we´re at it: What about a delete whole map function with a particular terrain type? "New" creates a 320x320m default map with a number of grass types. I´d like to change the "default" to any size map / terrain type with a single click, when so desired. In example "new map" of 2048x2048m size, plain grass1 (or any other).

You can easily create a template yourself and just load the template any time you want to make a new map.

[Guest]

Thanks for the heads-up about this thread, Pak40. Some interesting suggestions here, guys. I can't comment on what's currently planned for the UI update, but if we see good, practical ideas we haven't already thought of you can be sure we'll consider cherry-picking them. So keep them coming, and keep discussing.

[Pak40]

Cool, thanks Phil.