phil stanbridge Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Aspects of this game never cease to amaze me. I am using split squads to recon areas before I advance. I'm taking my time, and one 2-man squad identify a possible armoured target behind a hedgerow. I manage to creep my guys a bit closer and spot it's a Stug III. It's a really awkward target for me as I can't flank it easily, and it has direct LOS to all my infantry units in front of it. Nightmare! So I decide to drop a few rounds of 81mm on top of it, thinking the best I can do is dislodge it from its hull down position and perhaps expose a side to a bazooka later on in the mission. A couple of spotting rounds fall off target, but several airbursts land nearby, and follow the length of the hedgerow. Upon closer inspection it would appear the airbursts killed the crew, or at least some of the crew. The Stug III has now been identified as 'knocked out'. The crew were definitely exposed when I first spotted it, so I must have got lucky. What a result eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 ..and another somewhat surprising moment. A 60mm mortar squad drop a few rounds on top of a Marder III. Boooooom! Nice result there too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat_of_war Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 seriously unlucky day for that stuG crew though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I just dropped what can best be described a "large quanity" of 105mm off-board arty on a Panther in the hopes that it would stun the crew/imobilize/damage the gun/anything(!) just long enough for the two Shermans I'd got behind it to do the dirty on the bloody thing. Despite at least two minutes of four tubes on it and several direct hits, can I just say that it had no effect at all. It rotated its turret and dispatched both. To add insult to injury, one Sherman got a shot off and actually managed to miss!!!! We all know tanks don't miss in CMBN. Think it was the first I'd seen... And then, with no small amount of irony, a sole squad survivor got the Panther with a bazooka he'd scounged. So much for the big guns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 the most surprising recent event for me was during a pbem. my opponents stugIII bounced off a AP shell from my sherman 76mm from its upper frontal hull. wasnt very nice for me but its nice to see how complex the armor/penetration calculation of cmbn is. its really lightyears ahead of the cm1 times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I just dropped what can best be described a "large quanity" of 105mm off-board arty on a Panther in the hopes that it would stun the crew/imobilize/damage the gun/anything(!) just long enough for the two Shermans I'd got behind it to do the dirty on the bloody thing. Despite at least two minutes of four tubes on it and several direct hits, can I just say that it had no effect at all. It rotated its turret and dispatched both. To add insult to injury, one Sherman got a shot off and actually managed to miss!!!! We all know tanks don't miss in CMBN. Think it was the first I'd seen... And then, with no small amount of irony, a sole squad survivor got the Panther with a bazooka he'd scounged. So much for the big guns. At a recently PBEM game(la desert scenario) an accurate 105 mm howitzer barrage almost decimated a mechanised German group, among the victims was a Panther which was set ablaze by a direct hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 the most surprising recent event for me was during a pbem. my opponents stugIII bounced off a AP shell from my sherman 76mm from its upper frontal hull. wasnt very nice for me but its nice to see how complex the armor/penetration calculation of cmbn is. its really lightyears ahead of the cm1 times. Hey was that our recent game? I did not know it was a 76 gun he was facing - lucky. I am glad I backed him off into the woods. I really like those stug IIIs i have seen that happen so many times from the US point of view it sure was nice to be on the other end of that big ricochet for once. I never try to face those guys now, always try to out flank them or come at the from two directions... Working like a charm in Huzzar right now against another opponent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Bizarre. I'm still amazed at that Stug being knocked out by a single 81mm airburst. Never seen that before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 How did you know that a contact was a "possible armoured contact" before you know that it was a Stu? For me, I think that contacts are either "something is there, no idea what" or "fully identified". Am I missing some valuable in between state? GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 At a recently PBEM game(la desert scenario) an accurate 105 mm howitzer barrage almost decimated a mechanised German group, among the victims was a Panther which was set ablaze by a direct hit. Yep, that was the effect I was after. You have failed to make me feel better about it But really, it got hit several times and it was still being hit when it rotated its turret. It was even at a funny angle as it was sitting in a crater the barrage had created. Ouch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 How did you know that a contact was a "possible armoured contact" before you know that it was a Stu? For me, I think that contacts are either "something is there, no idea what" or "fully identified". Am I missing some valuable in between state? GaJ That's a good question. It was identified as an 'assault gun' but it wasn't confirmed when I first looked. It was a generic Stug graphic as far as I could tell, I suppose it could have been any model. I had to get my recon team up close and it took a couple of turns before I could tell exactly what it was. At least, that's how it panned out for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hey was that our recent game? I did not know it was a 76 gun he was facing - lucky. I am glad I backed him off into the woods. I really like those stug IIIs i have seen that happen so many times from the US point of view it sure was nice to be on the other end of that big ricochet for once. I never try to face those guys now, always try to out flank them or come at the from two directions... Working like a charm in Huzzar right now against another opponent. yes it was our game. normally i also try to outflank them but with the 76mm in hand i thought it was a sure kill...even frontally... but no... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreck Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 How did you know that a contact was a "possible armoured contact" before you know that it was a Stu? For me, I think that contacts are either "something is there, no idea what" or "fully identified". Am I missing some valuable in between stateVehicles tend to be noticed (as a contact) in circumstances where you would not get anything for infantry. So, if you see a ? show up off on a flank distant from any unit, or behind a hedgerow at moderate range, it's probably a vehicle. Another thing you will see is a ? that is moving. Probably infantry can do this (not sure), if they are close behind a vision block. But usually only a vehicle will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Phil: this is behaviour I've been longing to see. I hate the instant identification. Are you sure that's what you saw? If you see it again, can you take a video? GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Partial identification does not exist in CMBN. I believe you are mistaken on the generic contact. Its either nothing, a (?) or fully identified. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 I was busy avoiding an artillery barrage on the other side of the map at the time so I didn't pay close attention. But I swear when my recon team spotted the assault gun initially it was just your 'standard' Stug. But I realise there are no assault gun placeholders or anything like that. It was only when I got my men closer that they identified the type of assault gun. I couldn't see any of the crew beforehand remember, but when my men got closer, they could see the crew commander unbuttoned. I'd say that's partial ID working there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 A Panther shot an M10 through the turret on the side. The round went through the M10's thin turret armor, out the other side, and hit another M10 behind the first one, brewing it up. The exploding M10 was previously unspotted to me until I saw a giant explosion in thin air. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 A Panther shot an M10 through the turret on the side. The round went through the M10's thin turret armor, out the other side, and hit another M10 behind the first one, brewing it up. The exploding M10 was previously unspotted to me until I saw a giant explosion in thin air. Ah that's a good one! I've experienced something similar now you mention it, but maybe even more extreme. One AP shot from a Panther took out 3 Shermans. Talk about bad luck. The shell penetrated the turret of the first, went straight through the turret of the second and ended up in the hull of the third. The first two Shermans brewed up, and the third was stopped dead in its tracks. The crew successfully bailed from the third Sherman but all 10 crew members were burnt to a crisp in the first two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I think you only get to see crew (and indeed indications of individual squad members) when you can actually see them. So when tanks are buttoned up, it shows no crew info... GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Ah that's a good one! I've experienced something similar now you mention it, but maybe even more extreme. One AP shot from a Panther took out 3 Shermans. Talk about bad luck. The shell penetrated the turret of the first, went straight through the turret of the second and ended up in the hull of the third. The first two Shermans brewed up, and the third was stopped dead in its tracks. The crew successfully bailed from the third Sherman but all 10 crew members were burnt to a crisp in the first two. Wow. Is that even possible in RL? It sounds quite hard to believe. Sherman Turrets are not M10 turrets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow. Is that even possible in RL? It sounds quite hard to believe. Sherman Turrets are not M10 turrets. I really doubt this would actually be possible in RL, even if all the penetrations were side aspect. I suspect this is a minor game bug and the game isn't correctly modeling what happens to the penetrator as it impacts multiple plates in succession. Even looking at most favorable penetration point and aspect, Sherman turret armor is minimum 50mm thick. While one 50mm plate is nowhere near enough to stop a Panther round, once you start talking about multiple 50mm+ plates in a row, that's a lot of resistance. At the very least, the impact with the first plate would degrade the cap of the round, making it less effective at penetrating the following plates. And then there's the question of what it hits inside the tank in addition to the armor; tank interiors are cramped spaces and more likely than not it will pass through other object(s) before it leaves the tank -- a crew member, a round of ammo, a radio battery, etc. By mid-1944, Panthers also would have been firing almost exclusively PzGr. 39/42 APCBC-HE (solid tungsten rounds being exceedingly rare by this point due to shortages of the metal), so in addition to degradation of the nose of the projectile from punching through multiple armor plates, presumably the burster charge would have detonated after passing through the first plate, further degrading and destabilizing the projectile. Probably not a big deal because it's something will only happens if the vehicles are ideally lined up, but I do think this there's a bug here somewhere that needs squashing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow. Is that even possible in RL? It sounds quite hard to believe. Sherman Turrets are not M10 turrets. I know it was very frustrating. There was some debate if I recall about exactly how far those Panther shells could penetrate. I can't remember exactly what was said but some people believed it possible. (These Shermans were all in line and there was hardly any distance between them). Some people also expected a bug! I guess BFC will have addressed this with the next module if it is a bug. I've also reasonably frequently been on the end of Panther shells that have penetrated bocage, or armour, and gone straight through and killed infantry behind. I thought it was a pretty common occurence? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow. Is that even possible in RL? It sounds quite hard to believe. Sherman Turrets are not M10 turrets. I tend to agree. Wouldn't the first penetration trigger the shell's explosive charge? And even failing that, it should deform the shell enough to make additional penetrations much less likely. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurpo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What a result eh? I once knocked out a Pak 75 and killed off all of the crew with the first spotting round [edit: from a 81mm mortar]. Doubt that will see that ever again! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 There is a picture of a British Sherman Mk III or V with an AP hole clearly punched through both sides of its turret (you can see daylight flooding through the hole furthest from the camera). I do not know what the state of the AP round was, when it exited, but it must have been quite considerable. Given that I have not heard any incidents of multiple kills, unless a massive overmatch, i.e. 122mm flank shot wipes out two Stugs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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