aus3620

The T-64 is a bad-ass tank.  Take M-60A1s of any flavor (and I have all three types in this game) against it one on one on a flat map and the T-64 wins the majority of times.. mainly because its armor is so tough against the rounds carried in the M-60A1... not until the M-60A3 and M-1 does the curve start to flex the other way due to the superior ammo and optics they carry.
What you are seeing now is a difference in positioning... my M-60s are all hull down, Warren's tanks are not.. plus he is moving into my line of sight, mine are stationary most times... a moving tank is easier to spot.  My tanks are keyholed... his are set up in non-hull down positions in treelines.. now I'm a fan of treeline positions for armor, but I will take a hulldown position over them any day.  One T-64A presented its flank to me in front of the trees.. it lasted seconds after getting spotted.
On average it is taking me multiple rounds to kill the T-64s, in the case of the most recent T-64A it must have taken 8-10 hits (lost count) over two turns before the tank was destroyed... if it had been the T-64A firing at my M-60A1, the M-60A1 would have been destroyed with the first hit in most cases.
Bil

@chuckdyke, @IMHO@Ryujin can you guys please take these side conversations into another thread?  Unless they directly relate to the AAR they just serve to clutter the AAR conversation.
Thanks, I'd appreciate it, Bil

When CMx2 was introduced there was a wail of "too complex" from the peanut gallery.  Most of us here today would not make that claim.  Sure, there is a CMx2 learning curve and let's face it, if you want sophistication, that means more to learn initially.    It is a big question for BF with CMx3.  Outside of it being WEGO, it is hard to predict which way BF will go.   If you were to design CMx3 would you:
build a more sophisticated CMx2 - more control over individual unit behaviour, more functions, grouping units as a feature, similar map scale - of course, more to learn.
Larger maps with more AI control of sub-units and less control by players? - maybe a 2025 CMx1
Multi-layer game - Operational layer where players make big picture moves of Bn/Coy, then break down to unit level play.
With the benefit of hindsight, CMx2 was a logical move from CMx1 - would have felt brave at the time!
Any opinions out there on the structure of CMx3?

Lot of interesting comments in the thread and morphing into a game review.   So if I may ...
CMx2 single player is a bit meh, but as a multiplayer WEGO game at this scale it is at the top of the pile (a pile of one maybe).  Being able to review the turn is a priceless feature.   Nothing else quite like it.
Glad to see that Flashpoint Campaign Red Storm got a mention.  Different scale and timeframe but another dose of WEGO goodness.
Being a gaming dinosaur, it is hard to break the turn-based gaming habit.   Of course, tried the Close Combat series but it just did not do it for me as a strategy and tactics game.  The first RTS that I liked was the CMANO series.  The timescale of naval/air combat was a good fit for RTS.
On a naval theme, also liked Cold Waters and Atlantic Fleet.
I wanted to like Steel Division Normandy 44 but just too much going on and a bit of a clickfest, a la Close Combat series.  
As mentioned in the thread, the biggie in the comparison stakes is Graviteam.  Played Op Star for 20 minutes – seemed so foreign, just could not get my head around it.  Gave Graviteam a second chance with Tank Warfare: Tunisia 43 (TWT43).   First time around it was just as baffling as Op Star.   
Decided to have a second punt at it and managed to figure it out.  As a WW2 SP I think it is brilliant.  The big hurdle is to put aside your CMx2 habits and concepts (not as easy as you think after hundreds if not thousands of hours).   In comparison, CMx2 is focused at a lower level of command, although you can direct squads in TWT43.   There are fewer clicks per TWT43 scenario v CMx2 because of this scale difference.  
The big downside is the learning curve is the lack of suitable documentation.   I have 100 hours on it and still haven’t figured out all the bells and whistles.   Also means I have not stumbled onto some of the criticisms other posters have mentioned.  
In many ways, Graviteam and BF have different games and that is why they can survive in the same game space.  

CMx3 - Be inspired by Graviteam Tank Warfare - Mius Front, but add WEGO capability. 

As a substitute for TacOps that I've been having a lot of fun with you might try "Flashpoint Campaigns" available from Matrix. Same general scale, better graphics. There is an add on Fulda Gap DLC as well. Scenarios and campaigns. Apologies if you are already well aware of this.

The screenshots in the original C2 and Information Sharing topic were destroyed by Photobucket. As a result a REDUX C2 and Information Sharing topic was created with new screenshots. Some mods that will show up most often in the screenshots are, user interface (UI) and floating icons:  
Floating Icons – Cat Tactical Icons CMFI
User Interface – Juju’s TweakedUI CMFI V5
Some interesting topics have been started about how information moves through the C2 chain both vertically (up & down the chain of command) and horizontally (directly from one team to another team).  As a result I did some experimenting with C2 & information sharing.  Below are the results with screenshots from the experiment.  If anyone can offer a correction or additional information please do. 
Additional useful information and supplemental C2 rules:   
4.0 Engine Manual page 66 Command & Control.
@Bil Hardenberger Command Friction 2.0 -  http://community.battlefront.com/topic/125172-command-friction-20/
@Peregrine Command Layers - http://community.battlefront.com/topic/110861-command-layer-in-ai-battles/
 
 
The distance information can be shared vertically (chain of command).
Voice C2: Up to six action spots, approximately 48 meters. If either unit is on Hide then the distance is reduced to approximately 16 meters.
Close Visual C2: Up to 12 action spots, approximately 96 meters. This is also the maximum distance a higher HQ can fill in for a lower HQ. Example: Company or battalion HQ fills in for a platoon HQ and provides C2 to the platoon's fire teams. 
Distant Visual C2: As far as the unit’s line of sight.  (In the experiment I had units in distant visual C2 at 40 action spots, approximately 480 meters before I stopped.)
Radio C2: Entire map.  In the WWII titles, CMSF & CMA - C2 via backpack radio is lost during foot movement. C2 is maintained during foot movement in CMBS.
The distance information can be shared horizontally (directly between teams).
Up to four action spots, approximately 32 meters. (Sometimes a team had to move to within 3 action spots)
Can information be shared horizontally between teams from different battalions?
Yes
Can information be shared between two different HQs that do not have a common higher HQ?
Vertically: No (With no common higher HQ there is no bridge for the information to pass over) 
Horizontally: Yes
The experiment was conducted on skill level Iron in CMFI v2.0 Engine 4.  I used two different US battalions on a custom made map for the experiment.  The 4th US Tank Battalion on the west (left) side of the map and the 1st US Infantry Battalion on the east (right) side.  A high ridgeline divided the two battalions.  HQ units are blocked from C2 Voice, Close Visual and Distant Visual with other HQ units. At the beginning of the experiment no units of the 4thBattalion were in C2 with units of the 1st Battalion.  An immobilized German Tiger and a destroyed Tiger were used as the OpFor unit to be spotted and reported.  
The Area of Operations (A/O) for the experiment. Note the highlighted scout team with no C2.   
 

Good afternoon,
Question for all of you. How many of you dislike looking up the capabilities or information on any particular unit in the PDF manuals? I prefer to have something that I can hold in my lap and read, rather than trying to read it on a computer screen. Well, today I started printing out all of the unit data sheets for all of the units found in all of the games. I will have one notebook that is dedicated to the World War II titles and another that is dedicated to CM:SF 2 and CM:BS. It will make it so much easier, at least for me it will, to decide which units I wish to purchase when playing against another player in a Quick Battle. I have also printed out the manuals, including the Engine 4.0 manual and I've printed out the guide for designing maps/scenarios/campaigns. This is what I enjoy doing. I know, weird but everybody needs a hobby. Right?
**Chris**

I would caution against being too critical or morally aloof from the rank and file axis citizens of the time.  IMHO the lesson of this time is that even a good, hard working, intelligent, largely Christian population can be swept up in the emotion and propaganda of the day to commit acts, in good faith, that are unacceptable to today's western liberal world - although the western world cannot claim innocence in this regard.  This chap was 17-19 years old, his worldview would have been one not too dissimilar to our own at such an age re defending country and folk. 
If you are interested in examining the motivations of ordinary people in extraordinary situations in WW2, have a look at:
Ordinary Men by Christopher R. Browning
In our age, most people seem unable to push against the power of "Political Correctness", let alone the over-whelming power of the Nazi's on the average citizen.    

I would caution against being too critical or morally aloof from the rank and file axis citizens of the time.  IMHO the lesson of this time is that even a good, hard working, intelligent, largely Christian population can be swept up in the emotion and propaganda of the day to commit acts, in good faith, that are unacceptable to today's western liberal world - although the western world cannot claim innocence in this regard.  This chap was 17-19 years old, his worldview would have been one not too dissimilar to our own at such an age re defending country and folk. 
If you are interested in examining the motivations of ordinary people in extraordinary situations in WW2, have a look at:
Ordinary Men by Christopher R. Browning
In our age, most people seem unable to push against the power of "Political Correctness", let alone the over-whelming power of the Nazi's on the average citizen.    

I would caution against being too critical or morally aloof from the rank and file axis citizens of the time.  IMHO the lesson of this time is that even a good, hard working, intelligent, largely Christian population can be swept up in the emotion and propaganda of the day to commit acts, in good faith, that are unacceptable to today's western liberal world - although the western world cannot claim innocence in this regard.  This chap was 17-19 years old, his worldview would have been one not too dissimilar to our own at such an age re defending country and folk. 
If you are interested in examining the motivations of ordinary people in extraordinary situations in WW2, have a look at:
Ordinary Men by Christopher R. Browning
In our age, most people seem unable to push against the power of "Political Correctness", let alone the over-whelming power of the Nazi's on the average citizen.    

I would caution against being too critical or morally aloof from the rank and file axis citizens of the time.  IMHO the lesson of this time is that even a good, hard working, intelligent, largely Christian population can be swept up in the emotion and propaganda of the day to commit acts, in good faith, that are unacceptable to today's western liberal world - although the western world cannot claim innocence in this regard.  This chap was 17-19 years old, his worldview would have been one not too dissimilar to our own at such an age re defending country and folk. 
If you are interested in examining the motivations of ordinary people in extraordinary situations in WW2, have a look at:
Ordinary Men by Christopher R. Browning
In our age, most people seem unable to push against the power of "Political Correctness", let alone the over-whelming power of the Nazi's on the average citizen.    

This is great to hear. In general I’ve been very happy with engine 4 since the patch but the evasion thing has been frustrating. I’m looking forward to the new round!

Here's the Pak36(r). As you know it's the captured version of the Soviet F-22 Divisional Gun, which was in fact bigger than the ZiS-3, which itself is bigger than the PaK 38.

I may make a new thread as well to point out that the Soviet AT gun models in CMRT are quite wonky as well.

Yeah that's a great use of the command... I'm going to add it to my play-book.