Sailor Malan2

It might just be how I read it, but this thread is long on qualitative judgements and 'it must be fixed cos it's broken' rhetoric, and rather shorter on logic. Also: I have had many crews bail out of only slightly damaged tanks, with say 1 casualty, and be fine a few mins later. I have also had tanks hit once, look to be ok, then the crew bails (sometimes after reversing a bit - seems to depend on what they were doing at the time they were hit) Where does this telepathic crew communication come from - if I had sights almost on, and the gun was still responding to inputs, it is at least possible I would finish taking the shot even with a bang happening behind me... Which means that (given there are definitely cases where the whole crew is killed), there must aslo be cases where no one is... In fact the British used tanks in Normandy precisely because the casualties were very manageable... certainly not always two casualties every hit... Anyone thought that (in the example that started this thread) at the range shown AP might go straight through the rank? (not able to see if it does here) so it isnt rattling around the tank. Also, I think the crew dont (generally?) bail out until the tank has stopped, and for the middle sequence of hits it is in motion... I think people are assuming a single linear cause and effect matrix here. Why isnt it possible that after hit 1 or 2 the cres wants to bail but the criteria for them to actually do so are not yet met? (A timer simulating reation/comms, the tank being stationary? etc) Just my thoughts. If you really want to explore the accuracy/degree of brokenness of the game, do a range test... run say 100 tank engagements (10x10 in a good CMx1 range test:)

Welcome to Real Life TM. " Corporal, take your section and assault the house opposite" " Yes sir!" Turns to order his section. Telepathically instructs section on assault, and gives the order to move. Section runs out in to road, enters building opposite to find it is in line of sight of a close range MMG. Telepahically passes this info to commander (you). Receives revised orders and rushes back out into street. Simulaneously another section further down street gets your order to move to a different position, and fires on revealed MMG. A tank 1/2 mile away switches to fast and heads for the perfect overwatch, unerringly targets the right patch of woods (even though the crew cant quite see the MMG). The assault section then strolls back in to the building across the street. All brought to you by Telepathic_eye_in_the_sky_command_link.com You really think no-one got killed in WW2 because they didnt know what to do, and their immediate command chain had no clue what the matter was? To my mind, the challenge of 60 secs turns and slightly flawed TACAI is CM. You want god games? Go play Command and Conquer, or whatever this years twitch fest is.

I think 30 sec turns would encourage things to happen too fast. What is wrong with having your pixeltruppen go more slowly? Dont try to do too much in a turn, and dont expect robotic coordination guided by your eye in the sky god like powers. I like the current feel - much better than CMx1. Just to show an alternative view.

Afraid you are in the minority there - look at the fuss when the King Tiger model was revealed to be a early working version not the full deal! I think a poor flamethrower graphic would get them completely hammered:)

A colleague of mine (ex Navy) says that there is no such thing as the Army -there just a collection of regiments. If you ever see them all in uniform, you will see what he means - Uniform they are not! My favourite is officers' mess dress. Army is varied, colourful and stylish, Navy is historic and uniform. RAF is really nothing to look at....

Slightly off the wall, but I think the most decisive 'battle' of the war was that of the code makers vs the code breakers, and other spying. The Allies won that one decisively. Dont believe me? Correlate shipping losses in the North Atlantic with the delay Bletchley Park had on the Naval Enigma. Apart from the occasional oddity like the 1942 happy time off the US East Coast, the Uboat way only went Germany's way when the Naval codes were intact. Conversely, look at Russian vs German intel on the Eastern front. The Russians masked Bagration completely, leaving the Germans expecting the 1944 summer offensive on a similar axis to 1943. They read Kursk completely (admittedly Russian intel was rather more human based than code, but close enough!) The move of the Siberian divisions west in late 1941 based on Stalin's man in Tokyo was fairly key. Conversely the XX committee, and the complete failure of German spying in UK was pretty pronounced, enabling the fake US 1AG in Kent deception. The few failures (e.g. Bulge) were not huge. You could argue that breaking the RN code No3 (convoys and escorts) for much of the early war was good, but didnt last and was not enough to undo the Enigma successes, and the wider teleprinter code successes. I think if you want to highlight a single 'battle' as having the largest likelihood to reverse the result, this is it...

Dont you love this game - that is something I had never considered, shells trajectory over buildings being accurate enough to differentiate between church and steeple!

Bren's had two man crew (usually) and I picked 60rpm as a conservative sustained rate. As you say, the official rate was double that. On the oher hand, I think you need a better training than I ever had to stick to only 125 to 250 rpm with a MG34/42. With a 42, sneeze during the burst and thats another 10 rounds gone! Good Bren site: http://tbo.wikidot.com/bren-lmg

You forget the magazine difference. Lee Enfield has a 10 round magazine, the Kar only 5. Thus the 'realistic' sustained rate for a SMLE is probably 20rds per min, but the Kar is probably 10-15. Add to this the essential tactical differences - the German rifleman is effectively there to carry ammo for the MG34/42, which eats the stuff. The British tactics actually used the riflemen in a section to provide meaningful fire - a sort of close equal to the Bren. Thus the training and section fire control is aimed at getting the rounds down range in a controlled manner. The German is mostly there to support the LMG. I have done a quick calc: MG34, sustaining 125 rds/min (i.e. firing about 1 second in 6-7) gets through about 3.3kg of ammo per minute (ignoring belt and packaging). If you use a MG42 on 'normal' cyclic of 1200rds/min, and fire 200 rds (i.e. same 1 sec in 6 fire rate), you get through 5.4kg (nearly 12lb) of ammo. Those 1700 rds the German squads carry weigh 46kg (not including packaging). For the Bren, 120 rds per min is fairly manic, and 60rpm is far more likely. Dont have the weight of a .303, but assuming as the Mauser, gives only 1.7kg per min (although the mags weigh a bit). The 1200 rds the Brits carry are are lot lighter, and last longer than the Germans. Dont get me wrong - I have wandered off topic a little: the german squad fire power is way higher than the CW, but the SMLE should count at least double the Kar in a 'firepower' stat. Or in CMBN, the CW riflemen should fire faster/more frequently than the Germans

I have not seen any problems with paths in CMBN. It must be a personal play style issue. As has been said: use waypoints, waypoints are your friend. Assume the driver is a reluctant ex-butcher's boy, who left school at 14 and was conscripted into a war. Oh wait... In the 'climbs the bank' example earlier, I would bet that the path plotted (once the error on rounding the corner is allowed for - i.e. the overshoot of the last corner waypoint due to the speed) asked the vehicle to ...'climb the bank'! if it is critical, then only plot to the corner, then pick it up again next turn. Or put extra points in just after to recentre it on the road. Path tracing on a CM map is difficult to code... if you dont believe me, try writing the rules for it yourself (and no high level 'find the gap' type phrasing!). I once started doing something similar to point out to a Naval game publisher how easy it was to write a formation keeping logic... gave up after an hour when I discovered how much more complex it needed to be than I had assumed... Oh, and as ever, all these 'should have fixed this' complaints never recognise that something else would not have happened if they had been working on the pet peeve... fixed hours in day and coders/designers.

Guys, when modding you need to remember your history. France has been occupied for 4 years, and no one will have had the inclination to do house maintenance (and wouldnt get the materials if they did). Rural France generally looks run down even today. Dirty discoloured walls, no fresh paint on windo frames, and in come cases Germans commandeering the buildings. And soldiers are not renowned for looking after things, even when they are in their own country! And this is all before someone started getting agressive with nast bangy whoosh type stuff... Where are the 'tired' terrain mods?

Who's grass mod are you using? Seriously, nice illustration. Be good to see again with bazookas as well (or are those bazookas hitting the rear as it drives?

You think 2 minutes to pick up ammo from storage and be ready to use it is excessive? I think it is too fast. How many men can you get round an ammo box? how long does it take to remove rounds from the box, and put them in pouches? And this is assuming that the rounds are already clipped up, or in Mags. Or that you troops can do that on the run. I think the current system is a reasonable abstraction for combat resupply. You could do it faster when not in action, but by definition CM is 'in action'. Most vehicles you are resupplying off will only have a driver. Who is meant to unload the ammo? Not a fan of Rambo activity,,,

You are kidding? Only a four if Das Boot is about 15! 571 is WW2 as it was in the movies!

Yes, far too obvious, you should have come up with something subtle like " the 95mm howitzer is better at AT work than I thought..."

Is it just me, or is there not a really good 81mm mortar arrival sound effect? Most of the mods I have found dont seem to have a good medium mortar barrage sound. Just seem too gun like, with the arrival whoosh. Of course, never having been on the arrival end, maybe thats what they sound like, but I always thought they were pretty silent in the approach (due to the much lower velocity). Note, I am not talking about the firing signature.

Can't speak for WW2, but my Dad joined the British Army in 1952. He saw no active service (unless you count NI) but now has a disabilty element on his pension for hearing loss. I dont think hearing protection became common til the 1970's. Certainly wasn't about in the 50's (and thus before), BTW, that picture does not look like a squad in action to me. They are a few hundred meters back, looking down the village street. I guess the engaged units are claring the village ahead of them and thus they are mosly staying concealed, not in a firing position. The section leader (or whoever it is standing) looks like he is marshalling troops or looking for instructions not particulalry worried about what is in front)

There is a huge misconception in general about walls of buildings and modern (i.e. C20th infantry) weapons. First the disclaimer - I am not an expert myself, but my Dad was in the British Army for over 25years. He told me a full calibre (0.303, or 7.62mm) rifle bullet will go through a typical British built house wall at several hundred meters (think 600+). A typical British house wall in this context is a standard double wall with cavety, made of standard bricks on the outside and 'breezeblock' on the inner. This related to well post war. WW2 British would be a double thickness of Brick (minimum 6", or 9" if well built. I do not know Normandy well, but would assume houses were equivalent. The only thing that makes a difference would be a stone built (properly built, not just dressed with stone) house. Thus expecting a house to act as cover is going to be disappointed. Houses are mostly concealment unless fortified (which doesn't happen in game if I understand correctly) ...

I have just won Barkman's Corner as US vs AI with precisely 5 KIA, and 1 wounded. And I shot a tank at 10m! I am thinking I wont replay it to see if I can do better:)

Dont forget that 'gun hit' doesn't mean 'hits on the gun', it means anything that takes out (or could) inhibit the gun's ability to fire or target. Thus dont think literally shell hitting the barrel (although once in a while it will mean this. Most times the hit will take out optics, or at least misalign them, or jar the mantlet and inhibit elevation/recoil. Panthers and Tigers can hit targets at 1km plus. That takes relatively sophisticated gear, and bouncing a HE shell off the tank turret (say) rarely actually improves that sort of thing...

This thread has complaints about tanks spotting far too fast ('robotic'), and far too slow. Must be about right then . When you get all the complaints in the same direction, it is time to change the game:eek:

Hamstertruppen have made it to CMx2 as well then? I wondered if the extra animation required would prevent the port of what was a very rare specialised unit from CMx1:) Do the Syrians have them in CMSF? (Geddit? )

Thanks, very good responses. I thought about the tile issue after I posted. Splitting the squad in to teams does mitigate it a little. Of course, the toned down art is a partial fix. Should really be toned down as a function of the experience of the squad... green squads should have little or no reduction, elite should ahve quite a lot. Other than allowing units to be in more than one tile, cant really see the solution. Individual man=unit? I.e. the squad becomes a C2 devise not the unit... In otherwords I haven't bought a CMx2 game and I already want CMx3!

I dropped out when CM2 came out (subject matter - no real interest in the modern asymetric warfare). But now I am back (used to be the Mk1 version, but had to launch the Mk2 version of my tag to get back on). Good to see some old traditions still live on (e.g. Peng thread) On to the question: all the screenshots I have seen of Normandy preview seem to show very tightly packed infantry. Is this real (in the game), and is this realistic. When I was in the cadets, our instructor (in those far off, far less correct times) would have been yelling at us something very unprintable about our physical feelings for eachother if we had ever been that close... got to be at least 2-3yds apart even in thick cover, and far further in open... Or is my view incorrect for WW2 in Normandy?