A Canadian Cat

I wondered who would pickup on that. Wasn't there a Seinfeld episode where George tried to combine a several of his favorite activities He was not eating beaver tails thought - I think it was a ham sandwich.

Ah, I misinterpreted what you meant. Yeah, they do seem like good changes I am pleased to read about them too.

How about bringing your work laptop over to his house for some hot bed playing. We will not tell your boss - promise.

<confused>Where did you get the impression that they decided at the last minute to hold the release back because they wanted to add these changes?</confused> I am pretty sure that this was all planned to be part of the next patch and not added on last week or something. Steve is just telling us about the list of cool stuff that should improve the urban fighting experience.

Interesting, it almost looks like not all of his mods are on CM Mod Wearhouse. I am not sure if you can use CMFI mods in CMBN.

They already can throw grenades at open topped vehicles. I do not think they will for closed topped vehicles. Don't for get throwing grenades at tanks is an abstraction for infantry placing grenade bundles into the vehicle tracks or directly on the surface of the vehicles. You cannot do that from upstairs.

CMFI Aris mods: http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/mods?author_id=355&game_type=6 CMBN Aris mods: http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/mods?author_id=355&game_type=5

Ok I wrote those last two posts before reading http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=111569 especially #4 and #6 which are relevant to the above.

That is totally cool. One thing I noticed is the time spent finding out how close to the tank you need to be to no longer be seen. Tweaking spotting to account for in close blind spots might go along way to mitigating the lack of gun depression limits. If the tank cannot see the enemy in close then they cannot fire at them. In other words eliminate the issues of tanks shooting enemy infantry in close by making it impossible to spot them - instead of attacking the whole issue of the AI reacting to things it can see but not target because of gun elevation limits. That would be helpful for when your infantry do get a chance to assault they actually would be safe Xm behind the tank where they cannot be seen. Whereas now the tank will shoot them through its own engine because they are able to see in close. Just a suggestions - I am sure there are things I cannot foresee that might make it more difficult than I expect. Not to mention the difficulty of getting data like that for all AFVs.

Well this is not actually a bug per say. I would like it to work that way as well but it never has. The Open / Close toggle has always been a simple on or off. Just like Hide and Deploy (except that they take effect at the end of a set of way points and not the beginning).

What did I miss? I do not remember reading anything about that. Any reference please.

OK I regret bring up my example about tank crews being unable to hear. It was not testing it was just one example. Lets get back to some data. If you look at my post #66 http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1466736&postcount=66 You can see that Tanks spot a two man infantry coming up from their 7-8 o'clock before the infantry fired on them 52% of the time. Wow. That seems high compared to the description of tank visibility in the above. We still have a problem though: is that description accurate? If so is 52% spotting in line with the description or not?

Oh, I was not using my example of tank crews not hearing to say things are good with spotting. I was saying it seems that tank crews hearing does seem to be taken into account.

Now this I have seen very well represented in the game. I once had a platoon of Royal Tigers sitting behind a hill waiting for their que to attack. On their right flank was a long strip of forest separating their position from the next field. They were waiting for their infantry support to arrive - by truck. While sitting there they had no contacts. For many many turns. When the infantry arrived - in the truck same thing. No contact. Just moments after the infantry dismounted contacts started appearing in the next field. The infantry had heard the enemy attempting to flank my position. It was a brilliant game moment such a shock. The Platoon commander was able to tell the tank platoon commander that there were tanks attempting to flank his position and they responded appropriately. Sadly for the enemy they were attacking without infantry support and did not hear my guys coming. The slaughter was dramatic. Wonderful game moment and brilliantly designed game mechanics.

Yeah but that description does not match well with the game at all. This is the kind of thing that we need to be able to make sense of the testing that some have been doing. After reading that I would declare my testing shows that the tanks spot much to well to the rear and sides. So, is there consensus that that passage quoted by John above is a reasonable representation?

By "they" @womble means a passenger unit would have to acquire the faust and then dismount and take it with them. When a unit is in the HT look at the Special tab an use the acquire command to get a listing of all the stuff the HT has that a unit can take. Once your guys have done that they will take what ever the acquire with them when they leave the HT. You cannot put things back or trade, explicitly, with other units. So, make sure you mean it:-)

Try "special editor overlay.bmp" without the quotes. Note the absence of '_' characters.

Well I will concede that point. You are due some luck.

OK, I see. The gun with the hide command might be slightly harder to spot because the extra guys are heads down. But I do not thing this should be significant. I suspect you are seeing luck - as in bad. How many times have you run the turn to test this? And by that I mean see the "Computing Real-time action" message and review the turn again. If you find that the AT gun that has a HIDE order and not firing is spotted significantly less often than the AT gun that is just not firing but has no HIDE command then I would call that a bug.

Not sure exactly why the first round of a scenario is pw only but the way the game exchanges turns is quite bit faster than the old way. So you quickly forget that extra first turn. Now with PBEM ever turn you get to watch a minute and give orders. Every time both sides get to do that. By the second minute you are already ahead on the number of turn files you have to exchange and the benefit just goes up from there.

Under, under! My arse it went under. Look at that right through the wheels of the second one. Come on that's not luck that's a bug. :eek:

Well I, and others, have already told you how the new game works to get the same hold your fire and wait behaviour you want. The way I see it is you have a choice: continue to insist that the new game should play just like the old game and be frustrated. Or you can learn how the new game works. If you choose the first - all I can say is I tried to help - sorry man. If you choose the second I recommend you start a new thread with a question and not a statement and you will get help. My friendly advice would be to you stop posting the same demand over and over on this thread.

That is correct. Stop hiding units you want to fight. Hiding means don't fight. Think of it that way.

Right I recommend much less visibility for the AT gun. Use the terrain to shield one side of the gun completely, try to find a dip in the ground and position it so it can just see out. When you use the LOS tool look for a light blue line that means they should be able to fire at that location. Even then you might want to just back off a bit further. The LOS tool tells you if you can hit the ground at that point not a 2m tall tank so sometimes you are better off not being able to see the ground. I recently ran a test (for some spotting questions) and I setup a 50mm at gun out in the open with a 1m drop in the terrain as its only protection. At 1200m very few tanks spotted it and I ran the test many many times. The gun was firing at the tanks too and hitting. Most saw nothing. Some identified that there must be an AT gun out there and only a precious few actually spotted the gun. There are some issues with the LOS tool not being very helpful and another thread has recently made that point. So it is not perfect which is why I suggest making sure the gun can only see a small window or two in the terrain. Also keep in mind the 17pdr is a pretty big gun and I am going to guess the ranges were under 700m. The rules you seak are just different in CM2x. They are better. They make it much harder. But more fun too. IMHO

Ah, don't forget your neighbours are not keeping careful watch for you, afraid at any moment you will try to kill them, at least I hope their are not:-) In game the enemy are watching out for trouble and scanning windows with binoculars if they have them etc. Yeah a bit to general and all encompassing a statement. No one can fix something that generic but they will argue with you about it. Indeed. The unit identification has been reworked in CMFI 1.1 (or 1.11 I forget which version) for the Elite level, so that you cannot tell which unit is which only that there are some infantry over there. I suspect that the patch that comes with the MG module will bring that wonderful FOW feature to CMBN. Interesting. Not sure what's up here. I like my mortars but I don't see them doing miraculous things. Or are you saying they should not have line or point target as options? And AI targeting and other behaviour in WEGO is no different than real time so not sure what you mean there. Oh that would be a nice thing to see changed. Agreed. Yeah, I don't disagree there either. Steve from BFC made some recent comments about reaction times of tanks that I found very encouraging. I am hopeful. This is a challenge for sure but you can do it. And don't for get do not hide your AT guns unless you want them to die or they are being shelled. Period. If you want them to stay hidden from view make sure they have very good concealment and only a few key whole sight lines and put a whole map armour covered arc on them so they do not give away their positions by firing at the enemy's infantry scouts. Don't forget by the time we are on a CM map that is often less than 1km wide we are already fighting at close range for them. They do not have to if you don't tell them to:) Here is what you; give them regular movement orders right up to the bocage. Then a blast order parallel to the bocage and then a fast move further along the bocage. The will move side ways a bit set their charges and then run away staying mostly under cover. Much better than having them run into the field. OK I will not mention PBEM but I don't get what you are referring to. Are you referring to the no WEGO support for net work connection? Oh that would be very cool. Good feature request. Perhaps they will get there one day who knows. OK point taken. My point would be the game is far from being broken and unplayable. In fact quite the opposite it is loads of fun and very challenging. It is of generally very high quality. Those willing to learn get better. I know because I am a way better player now then I was when I started. And this is a great resource for finding out how to play the game as it is.