Sgt.Squarehead

Still hard to explain the casual swatting of the T-72 IMHO. If it had survived, backed off and then come back and killed the T-72s, fair enough.....But that thing acted far too much like an AI controlled mobile death-ray and not very much like a tank (especially one that had just taken a penetrating hit).

I've offered my demonstration of the problem as I perceive it, it's there for you all to try and test. Reducing the range down to 2400m changes things dramatically BTW, when I originally posted this test I was half expecting a reply along the lines of we've adjusted the curve (so to speak) to preserve the Abrams' long range advantage on the smaller maps of CM:BS (compared to the old CMx1 maps). I might not have completely agreed with it, but I might have accepted it. As it is, it's really hard to explain why all those Elite Russians can't see those Abrams, especially once they start shooting.....If there's a reason for it I'd like to know what it is? Not all that much to ask surely? BTW I haven't yet tried the test with the Russians turned down to regular to match the Americans, but I think we can all pretty much guess what the outcome would be. Rinaldi, as I said in regard to the APS if it's based in a fictional environment none of us 'know' anything, we are working with whatever assumptions the designers made. My problem is that some of those apparent assumptions seem rather difficult to comprehend.

No but it's a bloody good test of the games basic spotting mechanic and the results are not at all impressive. Ten sets of Elite eyes vs. four sets of Regular and 12 times out of 13 (this evening) the Regular eyes, see first, shoot first and kill first.

Quite agree on both counts.....The Rout option for uncons is a particularly intriguing proposition, it would be a great blessing for using uncons with the AI. Somebody mentioned a 'Rally-Point' option in a discussion elsewhere (CM:BN maybe?), perhaps a combination of the two ideas could be implemented to achieve what you describe, but without the necessity for replacements (and thus more AI groups)? The thing I miss most is exit zones, at least in CM:A I can script a Mujahideen with an RPG to launch an ambush (or try & fail in the way the AI often does) then dive into an exit zone on a trench tile, call it 'Karez' and the job's a good 'un, as they say.

I believe the Russians developed the capability for the tank commander to lay the gun with T-54. https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html This is a prime example of the problem with this game, that Abrams was a dead duck, but it casually zaps the T-72 while pretty much simultaneously surviving a penetrating round that should have concussed everyone inside regardless of whether it damaged anything else. It also looked to me like that Abrams was reloading after taking a shot, so the ammo storage doors would have been open and that tank should have been a fireball (having just taken a point-blank turret penetration). BTW - The T-72 & T-90 have better all round vision than the Abrams as the gunner has a periscope too, at closer ranges these tanks should have a spotting advantage.

It's his brother's rifle maybe and he's borrowed it, or perhaps it was a gift (bribe) from another tribesman? These guys are irregulars, normal tribesmen connected by blood to regime elements (most likely Tajiks rather than Pathans), they're not fighting because they want to or are good at it, they're fighting because of what will happen to them if the Mujahideen get their hands on them (you'll note their morale is quite good). However I will probably tweak one or two of them in a later iteration, just for you. Off to Iraq now to see if it is actually possible to get the AI to move units reasonably sensibly around my rehash of LLF's mighty Ramadi map.....Expectations are not too high TBH.

If we are going to deal in facts and accuracy, this one should definitely be taken into consideration: http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a20917/us-crews-fail-to-place-in-nato-tank-competition/ US crews aren't in fact even third rate.....That honour goes to the Poles.

So ten more runs through, six US wins, three Russian wins and one draw. There was one oddity per side where the defeated side still had a largely intact tank, obscured by smoke from their fallen comrades, in the case of the draw, each side had two such. Here's the typical out come, 7:30 into the battle and the final T-90 dies, one Abrams has been destroyed: (Countless screenshots available if required, easier just to run it yourself a few times and change a few variables IMHO) This keeping in mind that the four Abrams are Regular and the ten T-90s are Elite.....I mean what could possibly be wrong with that.

10 T-90s (Elite) face 4 Abrams (Regular) on a totally open map at a range of 3200m.....In my experience the Abrams always take the first shot (despite having many less eyes to look with) and the highly experienced Russian crews show no sign of responding once their comrades start to explode. EDIT - OK, I have to apologise and eat some of my words here, immediately after typing this I ran the test again and for the first time in a dozen or more runs the 10 Elite T-90s beat the 4 Regular Abrams. However once again the Abrams spotted first, fired first and then scored the first kill, but for some reason three of them then decided to turn side on to the threat and that didn't end well for them at all. Only one of the of the T-90s fired a missile (it missed).

Great thread, whole site looks pretty good, gotta try to find that 'KV-1 Worship' thread now.....Sounds like my sort of religion! My favourite quote thus far:

Is that T-64 engine noise for real?

Ian, the 'tankguntest' file is already posted in this thread.....Perhaps you should download it and try it yourself?

Just caught up with this thread, wondering whether the extra tools in the CMx4 engine might give us what we need to make this map playable against the AI? I'm going to put maximum effort in to my AI scripts for Mosul, with just a platoon or two a side I think I can make it work. Roll on CM:SF II 'Crescent of Chaos' (I don't much care if the crescent bit offends people.....Lots of things offend me but that doesn't stop them from happening.)

I've discovered a couple of issues with the current version while doing my own testing, it seems I forgot to adjust a couple of units from 'Typical' experience level (not your snipers, they're supposed to be green, but I still might tune one up for you in a later version) so part of the battle is easier than it should be. Get well soon!

No.....That doesn't solve the issue of Elite Russian tank crews completely ignoring incoming fire even slightly.

That Wikileaks list is going to be a godsend to gamers.

I wasn't aware that it had a thread here, I found it in the repository and.....Well once you've seen that map you don't forget it in a hurry. This is partly why I've not tried to modify your map beyond the strictly necessary, it's almost pointless to attempt to do so as your work is so unique and so distinctive that most CM:SF players would recognise it instantly regardless. So I've used gamer's license to bend a rotten war to fit a righteous map, call me a dreamer if you will.

Your points are duly noted.....However this whole project is aimed more toward light entertainment and AI script writing practice than historical accuracy. Fear not though, my scenarios on your map will be of a much lower intensity than Stalingrad and hopefully the locals will indeed become a factor too. The total Core force consists of six CTF platoons, three tanks and a platoon of SEAL advisors (plus some friendly locals, including a top notch sniper), to be spread over three maps and up to nine scenarios (& I don't really do replacements), so a platoon or two of CTS with some air/artillery/armour support and a fistful of friendly locals is likely to be the size of the typical force. As for why the CTS are there, this area lies just to the north of one of the major routes toward the Tigris, I'm assuming the CTS would want to sweep the area in order to clear their flanks. I have indeed discovered your Baba Amr scenario.....I did have a brief look at trying to write AI scripts for that one too, just for the challenge, but sadly it defeated me. PS - I even managed to sneak a few contour lines onto your map without breaking it!

Please ignore the previous Dropbox link.....I discovered some errors in the briefing just after the 1hr edit limit expired, the file is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/33hcoayklpzyw7i/[Test] Action %26 Reaction.btt?dl=0

All good points and well made, but the underlying mechanics have to work right and this: tankguntest.btt Strongly suggests that they don't.....Elite tank crews should not just sit still and watch while under half their number of Regular opponents shoot the bejesus out of them.

The latter concept.....Multiple layers of defence to, by hook or by crook, stop even a complex ATGM and (barring APS systems) comparatively cheaply at that. It's the way forward IMHO.

Don't forget liberating Belsen and the subsequent 'clean-up'.....My maternal grandfather had the life-changing joy of participating in that particular shambles.

I'd agree strongly with the initial proposition, especially in regard of MBTs. Abrams just isn't that good and the upgrades for it in the foreseeable future don't bring it anywhere near the godlike capabilities CM:BS seem to have given it. I'd suggest giving Russian AFV crews at least +1 training over their US rivals (at the same experience level) to compensate, based on what I've experienced so far.

OK, it's done. This is just for fun and just for now, a more historically authentic version will replace it in due course: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhqrdb4pp87cr1x/[Test] Action %26 Reaction.btt?dl=0 Be gentle, it's my first.....In public at least. FWIW

Oh goddammit sometimes I can be so thick.....Settled in to get the briefing written once & for all and discovered I've confabulated the two uprisings in Herat (1979 & 1984), something's been nagging at me the whole time I was working on this, now I know what it was! My scenario is closer to the 1979 uprising, so I need to replace the Soviets with Afghans, ironically bringing it much closer to the scenario I was working on as the climax of my original campaign.....Doing this is actually pretty trivial, a couple of nights to test the balance should do it, but it's bloody annoying as I quite like what I currently have. Therefore I'm going to finish writing up a briefing for a now purely fictional 1980 scenario and post the current version on Dropbox for anyone who wants to play it.....Comments and advice would be very welcome, suggestions will be put to use as I start the process of bringing the scenario more into line with history.