slysniper

This is not how the game is working, they are lasing, even at basically point plank range. So there is one thing that should be pointed out as maybe a feature that could be adjusted.

Us Army breaks their infantry squads into two teams, thats why. United States Marines still use 3 fireteams a squad(Because we are awesome).

slysniper,
 
In one the four vids, forget which one, that ChrisND did showing off the APS, he rolled a platoon of T-90AMs into hull defilade position dead front of a pretty exposed, full frontal aspect, Abrams platoon on a low hill. Range? 750 meters. The T-90s saw the Abrams force first and opened fire. Several US tanks died outright, while others were badly hurt. The Russian force never came under fire, I believe. Sure opened my eyes!
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

All I can say is the spotting imperfections within the game are they will likely always be there until a day someone tries creating a whole new program and try another approach to the challenge.
 
What I have noticed is the more I have played the game, the less issues I have with spotting. I know what to expect and I plan my moves to that expectation. seldom do I find spotting not working to what I now know to expect now. Thus not a surprise anymore, its just how the game works and I have learned to accept it.
 
Smoke is one of the biggest challenges for the spotting program when you have troops right within the smoke. (it is going to give you some unusual results.)  but if you have ever been in a real smoke screen, you might not think it so unusual.
 
In real life, you want to be behind it, or looking into it. if you are within it, you are at a huge disadvantage.

This sounds like a great concept for putting in a scenario. I would love to see a few scenarios where the Americans get their heads handed to them. I get tired of people thinking they are so powerful. I feel there is some real fragile concepts as to how they rely too much on certain aspects of what they are expecting to do in combat.
(Like if they somehow lost control of the sky. It is not pretty. )

Sorry, not a game option.
 
But using demo charges does sometimes help in that the defenders do go to pinned status normally when they are in a room that receives a blast. But they recover too quick from it as they do from most things. So your troops need to be in the room right after the blast.

This sounds like a great concept for putting in a scenario. I would love to see a few scenarios where the Americans get their heads handed to them. I get tired of people thinking they are so powerful. I feel there is some real fragile concepts as to how they rely too much on certain aspects of what they are expecting to do in combat.
(Like if they somehow lost control of the sky. It is not pretty. )

If your troops are already maxed out on carrying weight the won't pick up the valuable weapons off bodies. That's one of the downsides to acquiring a couple extra Javelin missiles and a thousand more rounds before you exit your vehicle.

I found that pairing Khrizantema armed TDs with BMP-3s to provide IR blocking smoke screens is a viable tactic against US tanks.
 
I managed to easily destroy, with multiple frontal penetrations, ten M1A2 SEP tanks (some w/APS) losing only three TDs, and a couple IFVs (smoke cover doesn't last forever).
The radar system on the Russian TDs is capable to see through IR blocking smoke effectively while the sensors on an Abrams tank are blinded.

AGS -  best way to stop them. Just keep sending troops for them to kill til they run out of Ammo. It works every time.

All the negativity. You guys really suck.

You almost wrecked the movie for me before I even watched it.

Yes, does the scenes play out like they would in real life. Heavens No. But really, do they in any movie. Really, Maybe Band of Brothers, since they were trying to mimic the real stories.

But, let me think, what other movie has focused on Tank warfare and gave you so much camera time on Armour and tried to delve into the mindset of the crew and so forth. (actually there has been a few). None even close to as good as this.

Just two comments about the final scene which is easy to insult, since you all want to. There is comments about how impossible it would be for the germans to be so stupid about coming up on the crossroads like they did. All I will say here is do some more reading. I have read actual accounts at the Battle of the Bulge of just as stupid stuff. There was plenty of incompetent small unit leaders by this point in the war. Now if you want to complain, by April 45, I would say it would be almost impossible to even find a German unit like that, that was anything of a coordinated fighting unit.

The second comment about the fact they would never have stayed and fought. Again I will disagree, it is in the realm of possible happening. There is many studies that show how soldiers at some point somewhat give up on the fact that they will make it alive through a conflict and will do things that endanger themselves because of their present mental state. And normally it is for the saving of someone elses life. Which if you recall they were to stop the germans from getting into their rear area troops, which would be a blood bath.
Very likely, no. But have men sacrificed their life's for others before . We all know the answer.

Curiosity got the better of me. I picked a M107 .50 cal sniper rifle team (first time I've touched them in the game, I think) and went hunting for Tunguska. Sniper rifle will easily hole Tunguska and the vehicle seems to freak out, getting penetrations without knowing where they're coming from. I even got one crew to bail out in panic. M107 is supposed to be an anti-material rife. Holing Tunguska and Strella while remaining unseen is it bread-and-butter.

Covered arcs will bite you at some point, just a weakness in the game system really.
 
I know very well to never limit my tanks attack options with making small cover arcs. (never want a enemy to pop up outside of it}
 
BUT TO GET YOUR TURRET TO TURN AND FACE A KNOWN DANGER IT IS ALL YOU HAVE. SO MAKE THEM 180 DEGRESS AND TRY NOT TO CUT OUT ANY POSSIBLE LOCATION YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND FROM.
 
Anyway, there will come a time you use it, a enemy tank will show up just outside of it and your unit will sit there and not react at all because that is how the command works. It just will happen.

My initial thoughts...this movie will bite the big one.
 
I didn't bother to go see it in the theater.  I read about a dozen "professional" reviews, and literally hundreds of wargamers' and military history buffs' reviews on this and several other forums.  I knew it would suck--from all the hype it received.  I knew it would suck when I saw the trailers--from the grim seriousness of the actors' portrayals (and the actors' commenting on the making of the film. I knew it would suck because it is a Hollywood production with no doubt an anti-war message as big as the Goodyear blimp. I knew it probably would suck when my youngest son and his girlfriend said it was great and that I really should go see it. (He's never been interested in military history or wargaming, and is quite the pacifist, bless his heart.) And I knew it would suck when I read about the crossroads battle scene. I knew it would suck because in one way or another, every Oscar-bait Hollywood movie usually does.
 
Last week, when it became available on Pay-per-view, I figured I would give it a shot just so I could take the moral high ground when dissing it later (can't do that if you don't actually watch the movie).
 
I wish I had gotten over myself and seen it in the theater! I really, thoroughly enjoyed it.
 
LemuelG and slysniper hit the nail on the head, as far as I'm concerned.  The crew was surprising believable...2nd Armored, been in the war since North Africa, would tend to have an older crew, and with the ravages of war, they look close-enough to late 20's for me. (My Dad was 23-24 years old in the Pacific, and the pictures of him after hostilities ended on Saipan show a man somewhere between 30 and 40.) There in-fighting at the dinner table rings true to me, just like my extended family when we get together on the Holidays... someone is always bitching about /fighting with someone else--usually over politics--but woe to the outsider who tries to diss one of us.  I wonder about the forced execution scene, and how likely that type of thing would occur, but who knows. More importantly, the war-is-hell and we are gonna have to take it to the enemy with balls to the wall sentiment rang true to me.  Again, only going by my Dad's experience, his outfit had that attitude in spades in the Pacific.  can't imagine it would have been much different in Europe at the end..."let's kill as many of these bastards as possible, as quickly as possible, and get this damn thing over with. I want to just get home already." 
 
The overall dialogue was way above what I thought it would be.  Face it, SPR's dialogues was mostly hokey, corny and cliched as hell. And Matt Damon just plain sucked.  Band of Brothers and even The Pacific did a much better job in that department. And frankly, so did many of the great movies listed above (and I like or love them all).  To me SPR is only good in the first 20 minutes and the last battle scene.  And come on, both have WTF? moments--in the landing scene, a German in sandbag emplacement on the ridge gets shot, falls forward, and the whole emplacement just falls apart by the weight of his body. How the hell did it stand up to the pre-invasion bombardment, fer chrissakes??? And the last battle scene, unhistorical and relatively improbable to boot.  But regardless, both those battle scenes were excellent eye candy, and were so far ahead of any depiction of WWII combat than anything before it, who can not enjoy them?
 
Fury does that for armored combat, in spades!  (Battle of the Bulge, anyone?) Those freaking awesome AP ricochets were freaking awesome, the crews' teamwork was well done, and to be expected in a crew that survived that long together, and the tension and intensity of combat was well depicted and believable.
 
Note to sound modders...Oddball, Waclaw and AKD and anyone I missed...I hope you are thinking of lifting sounds from this movie.  There's a particularly good, close-up rrrrriiiiippppp-ing MG 42 in the crossroads battle, hint, hint. And did I mention those awesome AP ricochets?
 
And seriously, even if you didn't care for the movie, you gotta hand it to the set directors and costuming departments--everything just looked right, tanks, equipment, uniformsoy the sets, uniforms, etc., etc.  Those 41st Armored Infantry fellows looked like I would expect them to after just coming through a gruelling winter campaign in NE Europe.  (As an aside, I loved the armored company CO.  Well done.).  
 
So for me, grog factor, production and drama, as LemuelG categorized the movie elements, all worked for me in this movie.
 
That said, a lot of the tactics sucked, as they do in most war movies.  But even there, there is some saving grace.  The attack straight at the AT guns, as has been pointed out, was done to cover and pull out a trapped infantry platoon.  I really liked the tactic they used--uncovering the platoon, and having them get behind the tanks, but of course could be argued that they should have tried flanking the German line.  Who knows, maybe more enemy covering their flanks? And, apparently, Wardaddy did came at them from a flank, or at least not directly at them down the road which the ATG's had covered  (his comment to the infantry company CO).  
 
The Tiger scene was believable in that they were ambushed and then were backed up against a tree line, with only one recourse left...to charge forward and hope to get a flank shot.  Those trees looked pretty skinny, and should have been easy to retreat through  (but I assume there were heavy forest tiles underneath ).  The worst part was the Tiger's tactics.  It was in a covered position. If they wanted to get out from the smoke, then they should have reversed and gone left or right and sat there, blasting the 3 Shermies as they advanced. And was it supposed  to have come direct from the factory...no camo, unit markings, or anything?  In fact, the paint scheme looked like it came direct from Sicily. 
 
The crossroads battle was preposterous as executed, but their orders were to stop the SS battalion from getting to a supply column.  What ya gonna do?  A wiser course would have been to blast them with all guns blazing while they were in march column, set charges to blow the tank, and run like hell before the Germans regained their composure.  But it's a movie, and many others (SPR for example) suffer from the same type of unbelievability in parts as well. And for what it's worth, the actual number of German casualties depicted in that fight appears to be around 50-60, which if they had blasted them in column could probably be about right...just saying.  When I saw Pork Chop Hill as a wee lad in the theater, I remember thinking that practically the whole company was wiped out in the initial attack up the hill--how could they have gone on and captured and held it? (It was after all, basically a true story.) When watching it again years later, I counted the actual number of men depicted as being hit, which was only about 25--manageable under the circumstances, it would appear.   If you assume that the SS troops were likely green and yet fanatical, I can see their initial tactics actual being as depicted, and casualty numbers reasonable. I remember one story from A Bridge Too Far, and many from books about the Bulge, that relate green German infantry committed to similar disastrous frontal attacks.  Still, I have to agree with the detractors of the movie that it was just too much of a stretch. 
 
So, overall, I wanted to hate the movie before i saw it, and ended up truly, thoroughly enjoying it.  In fact, I purchased the full HD package off Netflix, and it is well worth it if you liked the movie.  I have watched the first two battle scenes (but not the last battle  ) about 8-9 times over the last week.  There are about 50 minutes of deleted footage, too. None are added battle scenes--well, there's an extended scene showing the plastering of the plaza area when the girl and her apartment block get blown up, that shows the armored infantry CO getting killed.  But there is an important 7 or so minutes of exposition when Wardaddy and Norman are shooting the **** sitting on top of the tank as they are headed to what will be their confrontation with the Tiger, in which Wardaddy reveals why he has taken a bit to Norman, wants to toughen him up, etc....has to do with Wardaddy's girlfriend and his younger brother...and it goes a long way toward explaining Wardaddy's motivations.  It is one scene that I think should have been included in the final cut.  
 
Anyway, I rambled more than I planned, but put me in the column that enjoyed the movie--really enjoyed it.  I have seen almost every known WWII movie in existence that I could get my hands on over the last 55 or so years, including many foreign language ones.  I own about 45 on DVD, last count (Belle and Blade video is an excellent source for all war movies of any era).  Many of them are overall better in either screenplay, or acting, or whatever, but this one will remain solidly near the top, despite my initial desire to hate it.
 
YMM (and it apparently does!) V

I fondly(?) recall a former member here ripping into SPR because the chin straps on the para's helmets were wrong for that time period
 
It was at that point that I realised that wargamers complaining about war movies usually aren't actually complaining about the movie, they're just using it as a strawman against which to display their own superior knowledge of 70-year-old arcana. Yay them, I guess.

I normally do not mind when Steve put people in their place.
 
But I must agree, this is not the time to do it. No matter how they act. Even if the comments are out of line.
 
Yes , I am sure you will likely make sure not to do it this way again. But the fact is. It was released and no matter the logical reasons. Downloading the game for many has been a frustrating event. So let them vent.
 
But I also can see that when the next game is ready, and its just before the week-end . BF will say screw it. Don't release the game til next week and we know its up and installed on all the servers in the cloud system (or whatever IT magic it takes to get it right) I sure know I don't understand it all and how it works.
 
Anyway fantastic product and worth every cent. ( and everyone will get it soon, so chill, its not like it will be out of style to play the thing a week from now)

If possible, you want to destroy those Tunguskas before your air arrives. In addition to the Javelins, your Bradleys should be able to chew up any Tunguskas they find with their Bushmaster main guns (or missiles, but they are slower). They just need to get the first shot in.
 
I just did a quick draw test: 6 Brads vs. 6 Tunguskas on the default tiny flat map at 260m. I ran the test 3 times. Results:
 
 One lightly damaged B, six dead Ts.  One dead and three damaged Bs, 6 dead Ts.  One dead and 4 damaged Bs, 6 dead Ts. So, try to isolate the Tunguskas and attack with at least 2 to 1 odds with your Brads, if you're using those. In my three test runs, the Bradleys never fired any missiles.

Thanks
 
You can always give me a (up green arrow)  
 
I have very low esteem and I am trying hard to get my score up, ( When I first saw them I did not even understand what they were, I clicked on them wondering what the heck are they for)    

All the negativity. You guys really suck.

You almost wrecked the movie for me before I even watched it.

Yes, does the scenes play out like they would in real life. Heavens No. But really, do they in any movie. Really, Maybe Band of Brothers, since they were trying to mimic the real stories.

But, let me think, what other movie has focused on Tank warfare and gave you so much camera time on Armour and tried to delve into the mindset of the crew and so forth. (actually there has been a few). None even close to as good as this.

Just two comments about the final scene which is easy to insult, since you all want to. There is comments about how impossible it would be for the germans to be so stupid about coming up on the crossroads like they did. All I will say here is do some more reading. I have read actual accounts at the Battle of the Bulge of just as stupid stuff. There was plenty of incompetent small unit leaders by this point in the war. Now if you want to complain, by April 45, I would say it would be almost impossible to even find a German unit like that, that was anything of a coordinated fighting unit.

The second comment about the fact they would never have stayed and fought. Again I will disagree, it is in the realm of possible happening. There is many studies that show how soldiers at some point somewhat give up on the fact that they will make it alive through a conflict and will do things that endanger themselves because of their present mental state. And normally it is for the saving of someone elses life. Which if you recall they were to stop the germans from getting into their rear area troops, which would be a blood bath.
Very likely, no. But have men sacrificed their life's for others before . We all know the answer.

Thanks
 
You can always give me a (up green arrow)  
 
I have very low esteem and I am trying hard to get my score up, ( When I first saw them I did not even understand what they were, I clicked on them wondering what the heck are they for)    

I normally do not mind when Steve put people in their place.
 
But I must agree, this is not the time to do it. No matter how they act. Even if the comments are out of line.
 
Yes , I am sure you will likely make sure not to do it this way again. But the fact is. It was released and no matter the logical reasons. Downloading the game for many has been a frustrating event. So let them vent.
 
But I also can see that when the next game is ready, and its just before the week-end . BF will say screw it. Don't release the game til next week and we know its up and installed on all the servers in the cloud system (or whatever IT magic it takes to get it right) I sure know I don't understand it all and how it works.
 
Anyway fantastic product and worth every cent. ( and everyone will get it soon, so chill, its not like it will be out of style to play the thing a week from now)

All the negativity. You guys really suck.

You almost wrecked the movie for me before I even watched it.

Yes, does the scenes play out like they would in real life. Heavens No. But really, do they in any movie. Really, Maybe Band of Brothers, since they were trying to mimic the real stories.

But, let me think, what other movie has focused on Tank warfare and gave you so much camera time on Armour and tried to delve into the mindset of the crew and so forth. (actually there has been a few). None even close to as good as this.

Just two comments about the final scene which is easy to insult, since you all want to. There is comments about how impossible it would be for the germans to be so stupid about coming up on the crossroads like they did. All I will say here is do some more reading. I have read actual accounts at the Battle of the Bulge of just as stupid stuff. There was plenty of incompetent small unit leaders by this point in the war. Now if you want to complain, by April 45, I would say it would be almost impossible to even find a German unit like that, that was anything of a coordinated fighting unit.

The second comment about the fact they would never have stayed and fought. Again I will disagree, it is in the realm of possible happening. There is many studies that show how soldiers at some point somewhat give up on the fact that they will make it alive through a conflict and will do things that endanger themselves because of their present mental state. And normally it is for the saving of someone elses life. Which if you recall they were to stop the germans from getting into their rear area troops, which would be a blood bath.
Very likely, no. But have men sacrificed their life's for others before . We all know the answer.

Hey, give him a break, he did not know. But if you are going to grumble. Throw a little BF's way. They opened it up way too soon for everyone.

The server was bad with just the pre-order folks, add everyone else all on the same day and they made a mess of it.

Time for a chill pill, maybe the spotting did not make sence for you as to how you expect it to be. And maybe the game is not perfect.
 
But no one is stopping you from changing the settings, and the game does allow that. SO change it, to a lighter condition and your units will spot just like you expect them to. So stop dishing the game
 
Anyone who has been in the outdoors enough should know that on certain nights and conditions, yes you cannot see hardly anything, and yes your eyes really do play tricks on you when it is that dark.  (Now maybe the game settings dont make sence for that condition, but then again maybe it does.)
 
Your basically playing at night and I know from learning the hard way (hazy really affects the visuals in the game more than you miight think.)
 
My question is, How often in real life has any of you seen it hazy after dark unless you live in air polluted city???

Well, someone is going to post every time. I just crack up that people get mad that someone does. like it really changes anything.
 
I just wish i was home so I could start downloading