Retributar

We understand what you say Seamonkey & Lars , and you are absolutely correct. There must have been plunder...'to be sure!' and so it should be included...but, in the modern industrial age...i think its effect would not have been as decisive or noticable as in the days of 'Attila The Hun'!. Thats why i agree with bloodstar . Besides that, i think that the plunder in SC1 was way too high and unrealistic!...and would like to discourage that aspect. I would prefer a smaller 'Plunder-Bonus' and instead a system (which already is in place in SC1) of a monthly Stipend based on a realistic Gross-National-Product in the form of MPP's...based on existing operating industry - mines and so forth!. Lars: ...in the case you mentioned of the Captured Czech tanks and Tank Production Facilities ... i agree!...the German's should get the what-ever 200 + or - tanks and immediately form 1 or 2 more light-tank-divisions without having to buy them...as well as not needing to re-tool that particular Czech Light-Tank-Plant!...unless one wanted to convert it into a 'Medium' or 'Heavy' Tank Plant!. Also in this game...With aforesaid exception to the captured tank-industry...and perhaps some others...most captured 'Manufacturing Industry' should be forced to 're-tool' over a period of time to be able to then produce compliant-integratable equipment used for that particular nations forces...instead of just...automatically producing such items. I Know...I Know!!!...this will be construed as "Micro-Managing"...but, never-the-less...that is my opinion!. ***Anyone Here...Remember the 'War in Russia' game by Gary Grigsby???*** ... in that old-simple-game...you had to Re-Tool your Factories or Production Facilities if you wished to produce a different variant of production item...and that game was not such a complex game. Why can't we do that with SC2???. Please dont overplay that "Micro-Management" card again...give it a rest for a while so as to not wear it out!. [ December 09, 2004, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

In this case i would suggest...that it should 'not' cost you money to repair...but, instead...just 'Manpower'...which would translate into lost production!. Say an industry of 10 is damaged by 50% to an industry of 5,...then 100% of the manpower operating that industry should be used to repair that damaged industry hex/square...for that turn (2-weeks)...so for this turn there would be no-production-at-all!. 100% manpower to repair could stay in effect for an industrial damage of from 10/10 to 5/10. Once the damage has been repaired to 6/10...then some industrial output can begin again. So with a repair of 6/10, now only 40% of the industrial site is damaged...leaving enough manpower for 20% production during the next 2-week turn. -Industry of 10 not Damaged = 100% Production -Industry of 10 W/1 Dmg = 80% Production -Industry of 10 W/2 Dmg = 60% Production -Industry of 10 W/3 Dmg = 40% Production -Industry of 10 W/4 Dmg = 20% Production -Industry of 10 W/5-10 Dmg = 0% Production ...As it requires a lot of manpower to repair a damaged or destroyed industrial facility,...so if the site is heavily damaged...it cannot really function anymore as the manpower force-pool is needed for repair activities and cannot work effectively in a disrupted state. NOW... another point!. A certain % of Britain's & Germany's manufacturing industry was not concentrated on identifiable production facilities...so, therefore...the above industrial production figures based on Bomb-Damage could be adjusted appropriately. These, of course were the many thousand's of sub-contractor's who would employ small numbers of worker's who would construct component's which would be included in the final assembly of aircraft and other item's else-where!. These Sub-Contractor productionist's would be for all intent's & purpose's impossible to Bomb-Out-Of-Existence!. AND NOW...Another Point!!! ...as the war progressed...the German's were forced to move more & more of their industry underground!,..provision in the Bomb-Damage %Calculation's can be adjusted to factor this element in as well...there-by helping to reduce the bomb-damage inflicted by the Bomber-Forces. Investment MPP's could be used in conjunction with slave-labor to effect or implement UNDERGROUND-PRODUCTION-FACILITIES ...which could also increase in effectiveness with increased investment!...particularily with inmate or slave-labor investment...& not so much as far as 'MPP' investment!. http://www.vex.com/~nizkor/hweb/camps/gusen/gudest1x.htm Deutsche Erd- und Steinwerke GmbH (D. E. S. T.) "In 1942 and 1943 DEST also begun manufacturing fuselages for the Messerschmitt "Me-109" fighter-planes. During this period, some 20 fuselages were produced by KZ Gusen inmates every week. Then, in late 1943, when the U.S. strategic bombings devastated some key war-production facilities of the Third Reich, DEST provided huge tunnel-systems in the vicinity of the KZ Gusen for its commercial partners. At first, they have begun to dig the "KELLERBAU" tunnels to shelter the machine-gun production of Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG directly north of the KZ Gusen "GEORGEN-MUEHLE" (Steyr) Barracks. Later on, a second, much bigger underground system was built in neighboring St.Georgen/Gusen (site of the Central Administration) to shelter the production of "Me-262" Messerschmitt-Airplanes in the "BERGKRISTALL-ESCHE 2" underground plant. To manage this project, DEST established a new, second concentration camp at Gusen - the KZ Gusen II. This camp was only established "to manage" the thousands of new inmates sent to KZ Gusen to build the giant underground system at nearby St.Georgen/Gusen. With this latest KZ Gusen II (BERGKRISTALL) Project, DEST became one of the leading sub-contractors of Messerschmitt GmbH. So, at the end of WW2, nearly 1/3 of all the Messerschmitt aircraft-production was provided by DEST with the concentration camps at Mauthausen-Gusen and Flossenbuerg. KZ Gusen II (the Hell of Hells), was the key-installation within this plan, because it was dedicated to the final-assembly of the first serially-produced jet-propelled plane in history." ------- http://www.anesi.com/ussbs02.htm#tgsp THE UNITED STATES STRATEGIC BOMBING SURVEY Another czar was appointed, this time Edmund Geilenberg, and again an overriding priority on men and materials was issued. Geilenberg used as many as 350,000 men for the repair, rebuilding, and dispersal of the bombed plants and for new underground construction. [ December 10, 2004, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

Your analysis and petitions make good sense to me ... let's see what the other's have to say on this matter!.

bloodstar ... i concur with you 100%. bloodstar ... as regard's the previous article...i myself even do not fully understand it,... i was hoping an Economics Proffessor could deciefer it!. However, from what i can gather...it seem's to be an accountant's style of bookeeping... basically showing 'income' & 'Expenses'... and as well as to whether a 'Profit or Loss' is generated!...from these occupied/conquered lands. Don't ask more of me on this as i would then need to resort to the AXIOM... "If i can't Dazzle you with Brilliance, ....I'll baffle you with Bull****!" [ December 09, 2004, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=62936 German costs assessed on occupied countries 1940-44 During WWII, the Germans assessed "occupation costs" against the countries they had conquered. Basically the German occupation administrations told the conquered countries each year how much they owed, and then the occupation administrations proceeded to collect it. To keep their own costs low (and to provide opportunities for corrupt personal enrichment), the German occupiers also speculated in the "black markets" of some of the conquered countries. This interesting report provides a great deal of information on the "occupation costs," the scale of the "black market" speculation, and currency rates in Nazi-occupied Europe during the 1940-1944 period. These activities later formed the basis for "Plunder and Spoiliation" war crimes charges against some of German administrators. Here is part 1 of 2 parts: German Report on 'Financial Contributions' of Occupied Areas to 31 March 1944: Report of Working Staff for Foreign Countries, 10 October 1944, Including Breakdown of Occupation Costs, Rates of Exchange and Purchasing Power of Reichsmark (Noting Black Market Influences), In Citing Requisitions of Funds in Occupied Countries, in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10. Vol. 13: United States of America v. Ernst von Weizsaecker, et al. (Case 11: 'Ministries Case'). US Government Printing Office, District of Columbia: 1952. pp. 911-922. ----------- PART 1: Second Compilation from the Work of the Research Office for Military Economy [Wehrwirtschaft]: The Financial Contributions [finanziellen Leistungen] of the Occupied Territories to 31 March 1944 (Research Office for Military Economy 182/44 g. Rs.) The Individual Areas. 1. The Protectorate: The exchange of goods between Germany and the Protectorate is no longer regarded as foreign trade. For this reason, the extent of the real surplus produced by the Protectorate cannot be evaluated. We can only determine the amount of the contribution [Matrikularbeitrag] paid to the Reich by the Protectorate. [see Table 1]. Of course the Protectorate has furnished much more than this sum of 2.3 billion RM during the years it has belonged to the Reich. We need only think of the weapons of all kinds that were taken over by the armed forces, the manpower represented by the armament workers assigned to the Reich, the continual goods deliveries, etc. Of these items, it is known only that the value of the arms captured in 1939 amounted to 648 million korun, or 77 million RM in purchasing power as of that date. For the reason referred to above, the proportions of the other items cannot be assessed. The total figure of approximately 2400 million RM arrived at here, is, therefore, necessarily too low. 2. The Government General: The Government General, also, pays a fixed sum, the so-called defense contribution [Wehrbeitrag], and has been doing so since the fiscal year 1940/41. In regard to the exchange of these sums in zloty, in this case at the official rate of 0.50 RM for 1 Zl, it should be noted that the official prices (retail prices) have scarcely changed since the beginning of 1941. Price increases have occurred only in the cases of certain goods (textiles). The rates of purchasing power resulting from individual prices have approximated, as a rule, the official rate of exchange. In the case of food-stuffs, our chief import item from the Government General, the purchasing power of Zl is rather higher than 50 Rpf., whereas for other goods it is considerably less. Black market prices, on the other hand have steadily risen and are many times higher than the official prices. But there is no uniform inflationary factor [ueberteuerungsfaktor] such as has been established in the West. The prices range from two to sixty times the normal prices and completely disguise former relationships between goods. For this reason and because the sum of monies expended upon the black market is unknown, the exchange can be calculated only in terms of the official, and not the black market, rates. But since army supplies, in particular, were apt to be considerably more expensive than in the Reich, we have reckoned, beginning with 1942/ 43, a tenth of the total demand at a rate one half lower (1 Zl = 0.25 RM), arriving at the following result: [see Table 2.]. In 1940/41 the Government General was not held to the payment of a set sum, but it had to permit the transfer of about 580 million Zl notes of the former Polski Bank from the Reich and other countries to the account, and for the credit, of the Reich. The established clearing [The word "clearing" as it appears in this document is not a translation, but was used in the original document.] debt of the Reich to the Government General increased by 28 million RM between the end of August 1940 and the end of March 1943. But this low sum is only what remained of the actual clearing debt after a substantial investment of Government General credits in Reich Treasury bonds. As of 31 March 1944, 3396 million RM were so invested. The actual clearing debt approximates, then, 3424 million RM. Not all that the Government General furnished was through clearing agreements. For instance, the wages sent out by the Polish laborers employed in the Reich, and the prisoners of war, were carried by ordinary mail and did not go through clearing. Up to the end of March 194 [one digit missing, probably 1944] a total of 100.6 million RM was sent, 70.8 of it by civilian workers. The determined performance of the Government General is as follows: Reichsmarks (millions ): 1200 RM million Defense contribution; 290 RM million Return of Zl notes; 3424 RM million Clearing debt and Reich Treasury investment; 71 RM million Sent by laborers; 30 RM million Sent by PW's; Total: 5015 RM million. 3. France: With France we come to the group of countries that pay occupation costs in the real sense. From the time France was first occupied until the end of March 1944, she placed the following sums at the disposal of the Armed Forces, to the account of occupation costs: [see Table 3.] If one converts the above sums in terms of purchasing power, one arrives at considerably higher values for the first 3 years. The purchasing power and the rate of exchange did not become equalized until the year 1943. But not all goods financed by occupation costs are bought at the official prices; some are paid for at black market prices. One can assume that the black market played a very small role in 1940, since there were still ample stores of supplies available. Only beginning with 1941 is the black market taken into account here, when the inflation factor is placed at 4. In 1942 this figure became 6 (according to Veltjens), and it is estimated at 8 for 1943 and 1944. [100 Frs. equals --RM] 1940: official: 9.9; on the black market: -- 1941: official: 7.7; on the black market: 1.9 1942: official: 6.4; on the black market: 1.1 1943: official: 5.0; on the black market: 0.6 1944 (beginning of): official: 5.0; on the black market: 0.6. Exact documentation concerning the extent of black market purchases is available only for the Veltjens Action, which in France required 1555 million RM, or 31.1 billion francs at the official rate of exchange. The greater part of the purchases were made in 1942, amounting to about 1155 million RM. It is estimated that only about 400 million RM were expended in France in 1943. If one converts the 31.1 billion francs at the then rate of exchange on the black market, one arrives at the low sum of 318 million RM. It can be assumed that a part of Armed Forces expenditures still goes into the black market--a particularly large proportion in the case of personal expenses, which, during the last years in France, constituted between 18 and 25% of total expenditures. Certainly it is not too high an estimate if it is as that one half of personal expenditures, and so perhaps 10% of all expenditures, went to the black market. It calculated that 5% was expended in the black market in 1941, since the latter was still of slight importance at that Certain Armed Forces expenditures for materiel (such as plies for Wehrmacht installations [Wehrmachtinvestitionen]) may have been made at higher than the official prices, if not at the really high black market prices. In this connection assumed here that 10% of materiel expenditures were at twice the official prices. Until a short time ago, the French black market was fed still another source--the importation of Reich Credit Notes[Reichskreditkassenscheinen] from the other occupied regions. Although the issuance of Reich Credit Notes in France had practically ceased in October 1940, sums in Reich Credit Notes were currently presented with the accounting of occupation costs (1942: 460 million RM; 1943: 1180 million RM- 1st quarter 1944- 25 million RM.). Even though a portion of this was issued in France to begin with, it can be assumed that the greatest proportion--we place it at 75% for 1942 and 1943--comes from the other occupied regions; in 1942: 345 million RM., in 1943: 885 million RM. While it is not likely that the entire] sums went into the black market, it is thought that 75% of them did. We obtain, therefore, for: 1942: 260 million RM 1943: 660 million RM 1944: 19 million RM. Altogether, the following amounts were expended in the black market (in billions of Francs): [see Table 4] Armed Forces expenditures in France were as follows: [see Table 5.] The real sum of occupation costs amounted to about 28 billion RM. The "loss" through the black market, that can be figured by converting the sums spent in the black market to their relative value in purchasing power in the official market and then subtracting from these the real value of the black market purchases, is estimated to approximately 6.4 billion RM. In other words, for value of about 900 million RM received on the black market, one could have received a value of 7.3 billion RM in the official market, had the goods concerned been available in the latter. In spite of the extent of black market purchasing, the real value of the occupation costs is still above the sum that would be received through conversion at the 5 pfennig rate of exchange (26.8 billion RM), since French prices were much lower than German prices at the beginning of the occupation period. The opinion expressed in the recent report of the Military Commander, ["The Contribution of the French Area to the War Economy,' Paris, April 1944.] namely, that due to black market purchases not even the sum of 26.8 billion RM was realized, must therefore be regarded as too pessimistic. The German clearing debt with France, in which is expressed the value of her external contributions (import surpluses, French workers employed in the Reich), has increased greatly during the occupation years. Conversion of the clearing debt must be effected at lower rates than at the purchasing power rates referred to above. For, since 1941, the French have levied a duty known as the "revenue de perequation" upon those exports for which higher prices were obtained than could be realized in the domestic market. This shows that export prices were, in part, higher than the French domestic prices. It is of course difficult to estimate the degree of this difference. The mean between the purchasing power rate based Upon the domestic price and the rate of exchange is shown here for 1941 and 1942: 1941--6:3; 1942--5:7. From that time when the purchasing power rate approximated the rate of exchange (about 1943), the latter was adopted and it has been retained for the first quarter of 1944. Imports from France have been cheapened to some extent today, it is true, which might suggest conversion at a rate under the [official] rate of exchange, but the sums expended to that end [Verbilligungsbetraege] are still relatively low. Besides, many goods are still imported from France at less than Reich prices. The clearing debt was as follows: From November 1940 to August 1941: 8976 million Francs, 565 RM million purchasing power From September 1941 to August 1942: 28438 million Francs, 1621 RM million purchasing power From September 1942 to August 1943: 54718 million Francs, 2736 RM million purchasing power From September 1943 to end of March 1944: 44128 million Francs, 2206 RM million purchasing power. Total: 7128 RM million purchasing power. The total demonstrable French contribution is in the vicinity, then, of 5 billion RM. This sum does not include all of the French contributions, for example, captured raw materials valued at about 255 million RM, war booty, or the billeting services. 4. Belgium: From the beginning of the occupation period until 31 March 1944, Belgium paid about 5.7 billion RM in occupation costs. [see Table 6.] The total given here is probably too high, for in Belgium, too, certain sums regularly reached the black market; at the least, this occurred in the case of personnel expenditures. Belgium's price policy has been definitely more successful than that of France, however, and the extent and prices of the black market accordingly lower. If one reckons with an inflation factor of 3 for 1940 and 1941, and of 6 for the succeeding period, and assumes that 1/20 of the amount for the first two years and 1/10 for the remaining period went into the black market, the above figures may be broken down as follows: [see Table 7]. In comparison with the occupation costs, the clearing debt is very high, at least when regarded from the standpoint of the relationship in France. In Belgium it amounts to about 3/4 of the occupation costs, whereas it totals only 1/4, in France. It increased as follows: From 12 July 1940 to 31 August 1940 by: 21 million RM From September 1940 to end of August 1941 by: 383 million RM From September 1941 to end of August 1942 by: 974 million RM From September 1942 to end of August 1943 by: 1898 million RM From September 1943 to end of March 1944 by: 1012 million RM Total: 4288 million RM. These reichsmark sums, determined with the aid of the official rate of exchange, also must be converted to the rate of purchasing power, and there must be taken into account the sum of the official black market purchases (Veltjens Action), amounting to 267 million RM. Let us say, for the sake of simplicity, that the black market action took place entirely within the 4th year of the war economy, even though it began somewhat earlier (mid-6.42). The increase [Not including Belgium's deliveries.] of the clearing debt may be broken down as follows: [see Table 8]. The sum total of Belgium's contribution, then, amounts to about 9300 million RM. 5. The Netherlands: The Netherlands is the only country that not only paid for internal occupation costs, for the subsistence of the troops and other occupation needs, but also contributed to the external costs of occupation. The sums for the latter were paid, in part, in gold--some time ago the gold reserves were exhausted--and for the rest in reichsmarks. The reichsmark sums probably originated in foreign trade. To the extent of the latter payments, it was possible to import goods from Holland without payment, a procedure that calls to mind English imports from Canada. [see Table 9]. If one evaluates the internal occupation costs by the obtaining rate of purchasing power, one arrives at the following sums: [see Table 10]. After a considerable initial rise in prices in Holland, the purchasing power as successfully held close to the official rate of exchange. The black market prices, however, are especially high. The inflation factor for 1942 is given as 4, while it is estimated at 8 for 1943 and at 10 for 1944. Probably one half of the payments made to personnel, which lately constituted approximately 25% of total expenditures, found its way into the black market; and some of the payments for material have been made at higher than official prices (Armed Forces purchases of wood, etc.). As in the case with France, we calculate that since 1942-3, 10% of expenditures for supplies and equipment were made at twice the official prices. On the basis of the above suppositions, the following accounting can be made: [see Table 11]. Some of the external costs of occupation, too, were connected with the black market. We refer here to the official black market purchases, which were paid for in Holland with reichsmarks and which came to 160 million RM. If we take the black market rate of exchange for 1942 as 32 Rpf, that amounts to the sum of 40 million RM. The reichsmark remittances for 1942 must therefore be established at 480 million RM. instead of 600 million RM. Altogether, we received from Holland the following amounts: [see Table 12]. Since the Netherlands has counted as a domestic currency area [Deviseninland] since 1 April 1941, the balance of Dutch contributions in external trade with the Reich cannot be exactly ascertained. That part of the total contribution surpluses which is not covered by the external costs of occupation accumulates with the Deutsche Reich Bank in the reichsmark account of the Netherlands Central Bank (as of 31 March 1944: 5120 million RM.). The greater part of this, that is 4958 million RM., was invested in Reich Treasury bonds. Since the acquisition of gulden through the deposit of reichsmarks in Germany was not curbed until recently and the control over goods movements was inadequate, it can be assumed that great sums in gulden--we estimate them to equal 1/5 of the entire reichsmark account of the Dutch National Bank--were acquired by Germans for buying on the Dutch black market. If this sum is equated with the average inflation factor of 6, the real value amounts to 4260 million RM. The total of Dutch contributions, accordingly, comes to 12030 million RM. 6. Denmark: Denmark is not considered as occupied territory and so pays no occupation costs. The funds needed by the German troops are placed at the disposition of the head administration of the Reichskreditkassen by the Danish Central Bank by way of credits. For the duration of the war, then, at any rate, Denmark made no uniform contribution. The credits so claimed amounted to almost 1.5 billion RM by 31 March 1944: [see Table 13]. No estimation is made of the sums going into the black market. It can be assumed to be sure, that members of the armed forces buy butter and other products at increased prices in Denmark, too, but it is impossible to make any accurate statement concerning this. For the black market seems less widespread and less well organized than in the occupied Western regions and more similar to the German black market, with its irregular price structure. As a rule certainly, the Danish black market prices were far below the German. Therefore, one can not speak of a uniform over-charge or inflation factor, as in France, Belgium and Holland. Our clearing debt to Denmark amounts to about 1100 million RM. It increased as follows: From 9 April 1940 to 31 August 1940: 297 million Kroner; 158 RM million (purchasing power) From 1 September 1940 to 31 August 1941: 358 million Kroner; 171 RM million (purchasing power) From 1 September 1941 to 31 August 1942: 416 million Kroner; 198 RM million (purchasing power) From 1 September 1942 to 31 August 1943: 560 million Kroner; 268 RM million (purchasing power) From 1 September 1943 to 31 March 1944: 612 million Kroner; 293 RM million (purchasing power) Total: 1088 RM million (purchasing power). Denmark's total contribution, then, amounted to about 2530 million RM. 7. Norway: The Norwegian economy has borne an especially heavy burden of occupation demands. For this reason the occupation charges had to be limited to only a portion of the Armed Forces expenditures. The remainder is being financed, for the time being, by credits of the Central Bank placed at the disposition of the head administration of the Reichskreditkassen. [see Table 15]. Expressed in reichsmarks, this equals for the following amounts: [see Table 15]. This sum of over 5 billion RM is indeed a large amount, taking into consideration the state of Norwegian economy. Countries with much greater economic resources, such as Belgium, paid little more, and Denmark furnished not even half as much. These large contributions were made possible only through German subsidies [Zuschuesse]. It is not surprising, therefore, that German-Norwegian foreign trade is balanced in Germany's favor, that is, it is a subsidized operation [Zuschussgeschaeft]. Since Norway is scarcely in a position to furnish labor forces to Germany, owing to her own manpower shortage, it is one of the few countries which owe us certain amounts under the clearing agreement. Status of German Clearing Balance (in million RM): 31 August 1940: minus 5.6 million RM 31 August 1941: plus 111.3 million RM 31 August 1942: plus 43.2 million RM 31 August 1943: plus 105.3 million RM 31 August 1944: plus 132.3 million RM. Increases and decreases in the German demands made on Norway were as follows: From 9 April 1940 to 31 August 1940: minus 10 million Kroner; minus 6.4 RM million (purchasing power) From 1 September 1940 to 31 August 1941: plus 205 million Kroner; plus 131.0 RM million (purchasing power) From 1 September 1941 to 31 August 1942: minus 120 million Kroner; minus 63.4 RM million (purchasing power) From 1 September 1942 to 31 August 1943: plus 109 million Kroner; plus 57.3 RM million (purchasing power) From 1 September 1943 to 31 August 1944: plus 47 million Kroner; plus 24.7 RM million (purchasing power). If this sum of about 140 million is subtracted from the occupation charges and credits granted, as presented above, there still remains the very considerable sum of approximately 4900 million RM representing the contribution made by Norway. 8. Serbia...[The dots after the subheadings "8. Serbia" and "9. Greece" appear in the original German document.] 9. Greece... 10. Occupied Eastern Areas: In determining the value of the contributions of the Occupied Eastern areas it is expedient to appraise separately the items involved. For occupation payments were made only by the Ostland the Ukraine, but not by the zone of operations, and only a part of the foreign trade is carried on under clearing arrangements. The goods claimed by the Armed Forces and the Reich are provided at German wholesale prices. Since the extent of much of the services rendered (quartering and transport) is unknown, and the value of only the most important food and raw material deliveries has been determined, the sum arrived at by the addition of the individual items is necessarily too low. a. Agricultural deliveries, up to 31 March 1944, totaled just about 4 billion RM as against German counter contributions of 500 million RM, so that the total value received was in the neighborhood of 3.5 billion RM. b. In the field of industrial contributions, very little was achieved. Russian deliveries of raw materials valued at approximately 725 million RM are offset by German importations of machinery, tools, and equipment valued at 500 million RM and coal deliveries (not counting those of the Armed Forces and the railways) amounting to approximately 35 million RM. There remains a net profit, therefore, of only 190 million RM. There should be added the contributions made by the processing industries to the Army in the East, here estimated at 500 million RI. The total contributions in the industrial field can therefore be placed at 690 billion RM. c. Finally, the net profit from the employment of the Eastern workers, obtained from laborers, remittances, and deductions from wages [Ostarbeiterabgabe], must be taken into account. Worker's remittances: 26.5 million RM Deductions from wages: 209. million RM Total: [sic] 335.5 million RM. d. The final balance--admittedly incomplete--appears something like this: Agricultural contributions: 3500 RM Million Industrial contributions: 690 RM Million Manpower labor value: 335 RM Million Total: 4525 RM Million. The Russian contributions total, then, 4.5 billon RM. This is less than the contributions of most of the countries. France furnished about 7 times as much, Belgium more than twice as much, and the other countries, with few exceptions, also provided more. The figure given appears unbelievably low, in fact, not only in comparison with other countries, but also from an absolute standpoint. The value of all food and raw material deliveries to the Armed Forces and of the manpower employed in the Reich is doubtless not fully represented in this sum of 4.5 investments in the then Russian economy. [The contributions which can not be assessed doubtless run into the billions.] They will be taken into consideration in the concluding statement, where all the contributions which can not be statistically evaluated will be summarized. [Handwritten] certified, [illegible signature] Major. ******************************************** Quote: Table 1: Amount of Contribution Paid to the Reich by the Protectorate: Year 1940 Amount of Korun: 3000 million. RM-purchasing power rate of exchange. 100 Korun equals --RM: 8.73. Purchasing Power Reichsmarks (millions): 262 million. Amount of Contribution Paid to the Reich by the Protectorate: Year 1941 Amount of Korun: 5000 million. RM-purchasing power rate of exchange. 100 Korun equals --RM: 8.23. Purchasing Power Reichsmarks (millions): 412 million. Amount of Contribution Paid to the Reich by the Protectorate: Year 1942 Amount of Korun: 8000 million. RM-purchasing power rate of exchange. 100 Korun equals --RM: 8.07. Purchasing Power Reichsmarks (millions): 646 million. Amount of Contribution Paid to the Reich by the Protectorate: Year 1943 Amount of Korun: 10000 million. RM-purchasing power rate of exchange. 100 Korun equals --RM: 7.95. Purchasing Power Reichsmarks (millions): 795 million. Amount of Contribution Paid to the Reich by the Protectorate: 3 months, 1944 Amount of Korun: 2500 million. RM-purchasing power rate of exchange. 100 Korun equals --RM: 7.95. Purchasing Power Reichsmarks (millions): 199 million. Amount of Contribution Paid to the Reich by the Protectorate: Total Amount of Korun: 28500 million. RM-purchasing power rate of exchange. 100 Korun equals --RM: 7.95. Purchasing Power Reichsmarks (millions): 2314 million. *************************************** Quote: Table 2: Armed Forces Supplies Expenses [from Poland]: Year 1941/42 Official market: 500 zloty million; 250 RM million. Market for special armed forces purchases: ----. Total Reichsmarks: 250 million. Armed Forces Supplies Expenses [from Poland]: Year 1942/43 Official market: 630 zloty million; 315 RM million. Market for special armed forces purchases: 70 zloty million; 17.5 RM million. Total Reichsmarks: 332.5 million. Armed Forces Supplies Expenses [from Poland]: Year 1943/44 Official market: 1170 zloty million; 585 RM million. Market for special armed forces purchases: 130 zloty million; 32.5 RM million. Total Reichsmarks: 617.5 million. Overall Total: 1200 RM million. ****************************************** Quote: Table 3: Occupation Costs of Armed Forces, Paid by France: In Reichsmarks Year 1940: 1759 RM million. Year 1941: 5087 RM million. Year 1942: 7872 RM million. Year 1943: 9798 RM million. 1st Quarter of 1944 [Figured per fixed daily contributions.]: 2275 RM million. Total: 26791 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces, Paid by France: In Francs Year 1940: 35180 million Francs. Year 1941: 101740 million Francs. Year 1942: 157440 million Francs. Year 1943: 9798 million Francs. 1st Quarter of 1944 [Figured per fixed daily contributions.]: 45500 million Francs. Total: 535820 million Francs. ************************************* Quote: Table 4: Amounts Expended in the Black Market in France: Year 1941 Veltjens Action [The reference is to the activities of Colonel Veltjens, Plenipotentiary for Special Tasks in the Four Year Plan. See Document NG-4237, Prosecution Exhibit 2488, reproduced earlier in this section.]: --. Soldier purchases: 5.1 billion Francs. Importing of Reich credit notes: --. Total: 5.1 billion Francs. In addition, Armed Forces purchases at higher than official prices: --. Total: 5.1 billion Francs. Amounts Expended in the Black Market in France: Year 1942 Veltjens Action [The reference is to the activities of Colonel Veltjens, Plenipotentiary for Special Tasks in the Four Year Plan. See Document NG-4237, Prosecution Exhibit 2488, reproduced earlier in this section.]: 23.1 billion Francs. Soldier purchases: 15.7 billion Francs. Importing of Reich credit notes: 5.2 billion Francs. Total: 44.0 billion Francs. In addition, Armed Forces purchases at higher than official prices: 12.6 billion Francs. Total: 56.6 billion Francs. Amounts Expended in the Black Market in France: Year 1943 Veltjens Action [The reference is to the activities of Colonel Veltjens, Plenipotentiary for Special Tasks in the Four Year Plan. See Document NG-4237, Prosecution Exhibit 2488, reproduced earlier in this section.]: 8.0 billion Francs. Soldier purchases: 19.6 billion Francs. Importing of Reich credit notes: 13.2 billion Francs. Total: 40.8 billion Francs. In addition, Armed Forces purchases at higher than official prices: 15.7 billion Francs. Total: 56.5 billion Francs. Amounts Expended in the Black Market in France: Year 1942 Veltjens Action [The reference is to the activities of Colonel Veltjens, Plenipotentiary for Special Tasks in the Four Year Plan. See Document NG-4237, Prosecution Exhibit 2488, reproduced earlier in this section.]: --. Soldier purchases: 4.5 billion Francs. Importing of Reich credit notes: 0.4 billion Francs. Total: 4.9 billion Francs. In addition, Armed Forces purchases at higher than official prices: 3.6 billion Francs. Total: 8.5 billion Francs. --------- PART 2: Table 5: Armed Forces Expenditures in France: Year 1940 Official market: 35.2 billion Francs; 3480 RM million. Market for special Armed Forces purchases: -- --. Black Market: ----. Total: 3480 RM million. Armed Forces Expenditures in France: Year 1941 Official market: 96.6 billion Francs; 7440 RM million. Market for special Armed Forces purchases: -- --. Black Market: 5.1 billion Francs; 100 RM million. Total: 7540 RM million. Armed Forces Expenditures in France: Year 1942 Official market: 100.8 billion Francs; 6450 RM million. Market for special Armed Forces purchases: 12.6 billion Francs; 400 RM million. Black Market: 44.0 billion Francs; 480 RM million. Total: 7330 RM million. Armed Forces Expenditures in France: Year 1943 Official market: 37.0 billion Francs; 1850 RM million. Market for special Armed Forces purchases: 3.6 billion Francs; 90 RM million. Black Market: 40.8 billion Francs; 30 RM million. Total: 7615 RM million. Table 5: Armed Forces Expenditures in France: Total Official market: 26200 RM million. Market for special Armed Forces purchases:885 RM million. Black Market: 850 RM million. Total: 27935 RM million. **************************************** Quote: Table 6: Occupation Costs Paid by Belgium: Years 1940 and 1941 Belgian Francs: 29500 million. Reichsmark rate of purchasing power. 100 Belgian Francs equals --RM: 8.6. Reichsmarks purchasing power: 2537 RM million. Occupation Costs Paid by Belgium: Year 1942 Belgian Francs: 19200 million. Reichsmark rate of purchasing power. 100 Belgian Francs equals --RM: 8.0. Reichsmark purchasing power: 1536 RM million. Occupation Costs Paid by Belgium: Year 1943 Belgian Francs: 15045 million. Reichsmark rate of purchasing power. 100 Belgian Francs equals --RM: 7.7. Reichsmark purchasing power: 1197 RM million. Occupation Costs Paid by Belgium: January 1944 to March 1944 Belgian Francs: 5481 million. Reichsmark rate of purchasing power. 100 Belgian Francs equals --RM: 7.7. Reichsmark purchasing power: 422 RM million. Total for 1940 to March 1944: 5692. **************************************** Quote: Table 7: Amounts Expended in the Black Market in Belgium: Years 1940 and 1941 Official market: 28025 million Francs; 2410 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: 1475 million Francs; 43 RM million (purchasing power). Total: 2453 RM million (purchasing power). Amounts Expended in the Black Market in Belgium: Year 1942 Official market: 17280 million Francs; 1382 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: 1920 million Francs; 26 RM million (purchasing power). Total: 1408 RM million (purchasing power). Amounts Expended in the Black Market in Belgium: Year 1943 Official market: 13540 million Francs; 1043 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: 1505 million Francs; 20 RM million (purchasing power). Total: 1063 RM million (purchasing power). Amounts Expended in the Black Market in Belgium: January 1944 to March 1944 Official market: 4933 million Francs; 380 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: 548 million Francs; 7 RM million (purchasing power). Total: 387 RM million (purchasing power). Amounts Expended in the Black Market in Belgium: Total Official market: 5215 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: 96 RM million (purchasing power). Total: 5311 RM million (purchasing power). *********************************************************** Quote: Table 8: Increase of the Clearing Debt in Belgium: Year of War Economy: 1939-1940 Official market: 265 Belgian million Francs; 24 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: ----. Total: 24 RM million (purchasing power). ******************************************* Quote: Table 8: Increase of the Clearing Debt in Belgium: Year of War Economy: 1940-1941 Official market: 4789 Belgian million Francs; 397 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: ----. Total: 397 RM million (purchasing power). Increase of the Clearing Debt in Belgium: Year of War Economy: 1941-1942 Official market: 12171 Belgian million Francs; 974 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: ----. Total: 974 RM million (purchasing power). Increase of the Clearing Debt in Belgium: Year of War Economy: 1942-1943 Official market: 20338 Belgian million Francs; 1570 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: 3338 Belgian million Francs; 43 RM million (purchasing power). Total: 1613 RM million (purchasing power). Increase of the Clearing Debt in Belgium: Year of War Economy: September 1943 to March 1944 Official market: 12650 Belgian million Francs; 974 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: ----. Total: 974 RM million (purchasing power). Increase of the Clearing Debt in Belgium: Year of War Economy: Total Official market: 3939 RM million (purchasing power). Black market: 43 RM million (purchasing power). Total: 3982 RM million (purchasing power). **************************************************8 Quote: Table 9: Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by the Netherlands: Years 1940-1941 Internal occupation costs. 1 Dutch Florin equals 1.32 RM (millions): 1360 RM million. External occupation costs: --. Total occupation costs: 1360 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by the Netherlands: Years 1941-1942 Internal occupation costs. 1 Dutch Florin equals 1.32 RM (millions): 1640 RM million. External occupation costs: 950 RM million. Total occupation costs: 2590 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by the Netherlands: Years 1942-1943 Internal occupation costs. 1 Dutch Florin equals 1.32 RM (millions): 1640 RM million. External occupation costs: 600 RM million. Total occupation costs: 2240 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by the Netherlands: Years 1943-1944 Internal occupation costs. 1 Dutch Florin equals 1.32 RM (millions): 1640 RM million. External occupation costs: 600 RM million. Total occupation costs: 2240 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by the Netherlands: Total Internal occupation costs. 1 Dutch Florin equals 1.32 RM (millions): 6280 RM million. External occupation costs: 2150 RM million. Total occupation costs: 8430 RM million. ********************************************* Quote: Table 10: Internal Occupation Costs of Armed Forces in the Netherlands: Years 1940-1941 Reichsmark--Actual purchasing power. 1 Dutch Florin equals -- RM (millions): 1.46 RM. Internal occupation costs: 1030 million Dutch Florin; 1500 RM million. Internal Occupation Costs of Armed Forces in the Netherlands: Years 1941-1942 Reichsmark--Actual purchasing power. 1 Dutch Florin equals -- RM (millions): 1.30 RM. Internal occupation costs: 1240 million Dutch Florin; 1610 RM million. Internal Occupation Costs of Armed Forces in the Netherlands: Years 1942-1943 Reichsmark--Actual purchasing power. 1 Dutch Florin equals -- RM (millions): 1.26 RM. Internal occupation costs: 1240 million Dutch Florin; 1560 RM million. Internal Occupation Costs of Armed Forces in the Netherlands: Years 1943-1944 Reichsmark--Actual purchasing power. 1 Dutch Florin equals -- RM (millions): 1.27 RM. Internal occupation costs: 1240 million Dutch Florin; 1570 RM million. Total internal occupation costs from 1940 to 1944: 6240 RM million. ************************************* Quote: Table 11: Armed Forces Expenditures in Holland: Years 1940-1941 Official Market: 1030 million Dutch Florin; 1500 RM million. Armed Forces market for special purposes: -- million Dutch Florin; -- RM million. Black market: -- million Dutch Florin; -- RM million. Total: 1500 RM million Armed Forces Expenditures in Holland: Years 1941-1942 Official Market: 1178 million Dutch Florin; 1530 RM million. Armed Forces market for special purposes: -- million Dutch Florin; -- RM million. Black market: 62 million Dutch Florin; 40 RM million. Total: 1570 RM million Armed Forces Expenditures in Holland: Years 1942-1943 Official Market: 992 million Dutch Florin; 1248 RM million. Armed Forces market for special purposes: 93 million Dutch Florin; 59 RM million. Black market: 156 million Dutch Florin; 25 RM million. Total: 1332 RM million Armed Forces Expenditures in Holland: Years 1943-1944 Official Market: 992 million Dutch Florin; 1256 RM million. Armed Forces market for special purposes: 93 million Dutch Florin; 59 RM million. Black market: 156 million Dutch Florin; 20 RM million. Total: 1335 RM million Armed Forces Expenditures in Holland: Total from 1940 to 1944 Official Market: 5534 RM million. Armed Forces market for special purposes: 118 RM million. Black market: 85 RM million. Total: 5737 RM million ********************************************* Quote: Table 12: Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Holland: Years 1940-1941 Internal occupation costs: 1500 RM million. External occupation costs: -- RM million. Total : 1500 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Holland: Years 1941-1942 Internal occupation costs: 1570 RM million. External occupation costs: 950 RM million. Total : 2520 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Holland: Years 1942-1943 Internal occupation costs: 1332 RM million. External occupation costs: 480 RM million. Total : 1812 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Holland: Years 1943-1944 Internal occupation costs: 1335 RM million. External occupation costs: 600 RM million. Total: 1935 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Holland: Total from 1940 to 1944 Internal occupation costs: 5737 RM million. External occupation costs: 2030 RM million. Total: 7767 RM million. ********************************************************** Quote: Table 13: Occupation Costs of Armed Forces in Denmark: Years 1940-1941 Occupation costs: 531 million Kroner. RM purchasing power. 100 Kroner equals -- RM: 53.1 RM. Occupation costs, Reichsmark purchasing power: 282 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces in Denmark: Years 1941-1942 Occupation costs: 437 million Kroner. RM purchasing power. 100 Kroner equals -- RM: 47.7 RM. Occupation costs, Reichsmark purchasing power: 208 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces in Denmark: Years 1942-1943 Occupation costs: 612 million Kroner. RM purchasing power. 100 Kroner equals -- RM: 47.5 RM. Occupation costs, Reichsmark purchasing power: 290 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces in Denmark: Years 1943-1944 Occupation costs: 1391 million Kroner. RM purchasing power. 100 Kroner equals -- RM: 47.9 RM. Occupation costs, Reichsmark purchasing power: 666 RM million. Total Occupation costs from 1940 to 1944: 1446 RM million. *********************************** Quote: Table 14: Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Norway: Years 1940-1941 Occupation charges: 353 million Kroner. Credit with the Norges Bank: 2132 million Kroner. Total: 2485 million Kroner. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Norway: Years 1941-1942 Occupation charges: 1292 million Kroner. Credit with the Norges Bank: 1835 million Kroner. Total: 3127 million Kroner. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Norway: Years 1942-1943 Occupation charges: 981 million Kroner. Credit with the Norges Bank: 942 million Kroner. Total: 1923 million Kroner. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Norway: 6 months 1943 to March 1944 Fulltext: Occupation charges: approx. 750 million Kroner. Credit with the Norges Bank: approx. 750 million Kroner. Total: approx. 1500 million Kroner. *************************************** Quote: Table 15: Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Norway in Reichsmarks: Years 1940-1941 Total Occupation costs: 2485 million Kroner. RM purchasing power value. 100 Kroner equals -- RM: 63.9 RM. Purchasing power: 1588 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Norway in Reichsmarks: Years 1941-1942 Total Occupation costs: 3137 million Kroner. RM purchasing power value. 100 Kroner equals -- RM: 52.8 RM. Purchasing power: 1656 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Norway in Reichsmarks: Years 1942-1943 Total Occupation costs: 1923 million Kroner. RM purchasing power value. 100 Kroner equals -- RM: 52.6 RM. Purchasing power: 1011 RM million. Occupation Costs of Armed Forces Paid by Norway in Reichsmarks: Years 1943-1944 Total Occupation costs: 1500 million Kroner. RM purchasing power value. 100 Kroner equals -- RM: 52.6 RM. Purchasing power:RM789 million. Total from 1940-1944: RM5044 million.

http://www.bullrunofvermont.com/what.htm Bull Run of Vermont, inc 9/7/02 What Young Americans Should Know About World War II in Europe by Frank H. Armstrong (Note: Documentation for most of the following is included in my book, Payoff Artillery - WWII. Access our Artillery - WWII page). It was a devastating war involving the entire globe from Anchorage to Capetown and from Singapore to Murmansk. More than half the World's population were residents of one of 56 nations which were officially at war. German people fully supported the war. They lived very well on plunder from conquered nations from 1939 through 1944. World War II cannot be solely blamed on Hitler nor the Nazi Party. It was Germany's war. Who were the enemy? The Japanese population of 95 million was greater than Germany-Austria's 92 million. Austria was a willing full partner with Germany. Both Hitler and the Nazi party came from Austria. The primary objective of their war was "Lebensraum" or land. After World War I, Germany had lost their colonies in Africa and in 1939 they were out to regain new colonies. The Holocaust was very real. I and my battalion were with the 45th Infantry Division when they liberated Dachau. However, the German objective was primarily to gain land. United States' population was 140 million. German military forces had personnel resources from much of Europe. At war's end more than half of the SS were non-German. RIGA, Latvia, March 18, 2000 (AP) veterans of the Latvian Waffen SS marched through Riga to honor their 50,000 fallen comrades. (New York Times, Sunday 19 March 2000, p.5) The Wehrmacht (German Army) also had their share of turncoats. They were from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Austria, Hungary, and other nations. These turncoats were assured of all the benefits that Germans in their armed forces were entitled. Today, those who have survived are drawing their pensions regardless of where they reside. We were really up against a European Army. Some non-Germans were mixed in with German troops. There also were foreign regiments and divisions in the German Army. They had all sold their souls to the Devil. There was no way out except death. They owed their full allegiance to Hitler. Nine million Hitler youth (1939), also swore an annual oath of allegiance to Hitler. When you swear allegiance to an individual and the individual becomes ever more evil you cannot renege. German armed forces were partially dependent on 16 and 17-year olds. Children manning anti-aircraft guns were often younger than sixteen and of both sexes. My battalion met with some of them at Nurenberg in one of the very few direct-fire artillery duels of the entire war. Some folk say German forces were good fighters. I respond, they had no alternative. Thousands of German soldiers were reassigned to punishment battalions for having shown reluctance to fight. Punishment battalions were assigned to the most hazardous undertakings such as breaching a minefield. Anti-aircraft troops and parachute troops were under Goering's Luftwafffe. Germany had about eight and a half million men under arms in 1943. There were 300 divisions in their army each with about 17,000 men and officers. Their casualties were continually being replaced by non-Germans. At war's end there remained about five million disarmed German troops in the American zones of Germany and Austria.. They still outnumbered us. Focusing on native Germans in their armed forces, they had been severely disciplined in their youth. A Dutch lady told me that Germans had been so strictly disciplined that they just expected the citizenry of the occupied countries to submit to them as they had submitted to their parents and teachers. Germans had been through a 1930-era economic depression, but it was shorter and less severe than in other nations. The Nazii regime, using devious methods, had ended their economic stagnation with a gross domestic product inrease of 6.3 percent in real terms in their first year in power. Many German youth had six years of training for war in the Hitler Youth. Catholic and Protestant Church youth groups were outlawed. Why did so many teenagers from the conquered nations volunteer to join the German Army? They did! The few who survived are receiving pensions in 2001 from Germany, no matter were they live. Once they had volunteered and sworn an oath of allegiance to Hitler there was no way out except death. Yes, many teenagers from the conquered nations resisted and did not join the German Army. Most of these had to serve in labor battalions in Germany for at least one year. What would you have done? The teenagers from Holland, France, Beguim, and Luxembourg who joined the German Army were shipped to the Russian front. The ones from Poland and the USSR were shipped to the Atlantic Ocean defenses. We met some of them in Normandy. The American Forces In 1939, eighteen other countries had larger armies than the United States. I enlisted in Headquarters Troop of the 103rd Cavalry (horse) in June 1939. The U.S. had 167,000 regular army soldiers led by 65 officers of general grade. Many of these regular army soldiers were sacrificed in the Phillipines, Guam, and Pearl Harbor. Our Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) of the 1930's (520,000 young men enrolled at the peak) never allowed military training. Americans had experienced ten years of severe economic depression. Our youth were generally undernourished, skinny, and had never been to a dentist. Half of our young men could not meet the minimum military medical standards. It seemed like the best of the lot gravitated into the U.S. Navy or the Army Air Corps. Many of these World War II seamen and airmen would have ended up as officers or high ranking non-commissioned officers had they joined the Army. Our early-war heavy losses amongst our regular army troops, made us dependent on National Guard troops. Our National Guards were not called to active duty, but were integrated into the Army. There is a real difference. In 1942, National Guard generals, and other officers, who could not meet standards were simply released and sent home. Often, they were replaced by regular army officers. In sharp contrast to what was going on in Germany, our Selective Service Act of 1940 was for men between ages 21 and 35. No teenagers were drafted until early 1943 when the draft age was lowered to 18. There were no exemptions for the wealthy, athletes, or the politically connected. Religious objectors became front-line medics. Our replacement training centers could not produce the required numbers of trained soldiers. Many divisions undertook the task of providing basic training to men who were assigned directly from reception centers. In 1943, four artillery battalions at Camp Rucker received their men direct from reception centers and then merged basic training with small-unit training. These battalions retained the same men for the entire war. It was one grand success story. The United States did have some superb young men who not only volunteered for our Infantry, but did so well in combat that they received battlefield commissions as officers. After 1943, we also had numbers of superb young men who volunteered for Airborne. Our Airborne troops did very well in the War, but frankly they were not engaged in battle to the extent of our Infantry divisions. They were often in reserve. Many of these young men ended up the war without ever having attained officer or non-commisioned officer status. Had they been in the Infantry, their true value would have been recognized. In the 1930 era, many kids grew up on farms where they learned to be self-reliant. Their transition into an Army of boisterous youth was challenging. Some were destined to remain as "loners" and fortunately found there was a meaningful role for them in the Army. They might never have made it on an aircraft carrier or a heavy bomber, but the Army really needed some "loners." Perhaps a classic in this theme is Fred Salter's book, Recon Scout (see Mediterranean Theatre section of our World War II page.) One program that stands above all others in reasons for our victory was when General Leslie McNAir (who was killed in Normandy by our Army Air Corps) took action to remedy the dearth of above average-intelligence men in our Infantry. Eighty thousand men who had been assigned to universities under the Army Specialized Training Program, along with 15,000 college students in the Enlisted Reserve Corps, and 20,000 surplus aviation cadets were assigned to Infantry Divisions and given swift Infantry training. This meant upwards of 500 of our most intelligent men were assigned to many infantry regiments. Many were killed, particularly in the 19 Infantry divisions in the European Theatre that suffered more battle deaths than any Armored, Airborne, or Mountain division. I believe our G.I. generation lost its best in the war. On the other hand, those who were killed made our victory possible. I know! I was a young lieutenant and an artillery forward observer who walked from Normandy to Berchtesgaden with our front-line troops. . You might access our World War II page and view the nine memoirs from survivors of this program, This is probably the only time that any nation sent its most intelligent young men to the front line. There was no hazing nor initiation among American troops. After all, hazing intends to humiliate the victim and that was the last thing we wanted. We were striving to build up troop self-confidence. The word "homosexual" was not in use. Seldom was an individual identified as lacking in masculinity or simply a late bloomer (yes, some kids don't develop sexually until they are in their twenties). Those who might have been in this category were still a part of our team and fully able to contribute to our victory. We knew who our enemy was! Now my own specialty happens to be the military, and I think it's significant that there was little, if any, hazing in the armed forces in World War II. It seems like a post-Vietnam-era phenomenum, as the military got separated from the mainstream of society. Insecurity drives hazing. And there are sort of homosexual undertones to much of this male hazing; therefore, you have this sort of irony of going through a kind of homoerotic experience to prove you're not homosexual. (Charles Meskes, author of The Postmodern military) New York Times Magzine, Sunday 19 March 2000, The CCC had been the first great mixing of American ethnic groups. World War II validated the results of the CCC. Catholics, Protestants, and Jews became life-long friends. Men of Italian and Polish descent were fully acceptable. Chaplains ministered to men of all faiths. Men of Spanish descent were not minorities in any sense. During the 1930's, some folk changed the prefix of their names from "Di" to "De" (such as DiFelice and DeFelice) to lessen any prejudice that might have been directed towards Italians. COMPLETE VICTORY: At the end of the war, there was no German government. The conquering powers became the government in their mutually agreed upon zones. The European population upheaval defied belief. In the American zones there were more than twenty million homeless persons along with five million disarmed German troops. Yes, German troops outnumbered American, British, and French even at War's end. The Wehrmacht (German Army) infra-structure no longer existed. Their railroad system was in shambles. Hospitals were overflowing with badly wounded patients. There were millions of maimed persons no longer able to engage in economic activity. Streets of cities and towns were piled high with rubble. Bridges and viaducts had been destroyed. The stench from burned-out buildings, and rotting human and animal bodies was everywhere. Cities were paralyzed. Survivors had taken up residence in and under the ruined buildings. The mark (Deutschmark) was valued at ten cents. The 425,000 German/Italian prisoners of war in America were slated to be shipped back to Europe as soon as possible. The surviving Germans recognized the reality of the situation. They had lost the war. Any plans for continued underground warfare were shelved. Displaced persons, from nations occupied by the USSR after the war, were generally allowed to remain in Germany. They were accepted into the German community. About one-fifth of the 1946 population of Germany had been slave laborers during the war. Today, their descendants are Germans. The anticipated disease epidemics never materialized thanks to DDT -- the American miracle response to human lice. Germans opted to cooperate with their conquerors. G.I.'s, having seen humanity at its worst, returned home determined to continue doing things that are really worthwhile. We wondered just what those millions of disarmed enemy would do to regain a meaningful role in the economy after more than a decade of only learning how to kill. About half of the G.I.s descended on colleges and universities seeking to further their education. Few had any interest in fraternities and most certainly they would not undergo hazing. They avidly took to their studies. Professors had to revise examinations to make them more challenging. Professors on the verge of retiring felt they had an obligation to the G.I. generation so they deferred retirement. The U.S. Government provided incentive in the form of education payments to the G.I.'s who had been paid as little as $21 per month for their military service. After previous wars there had been land grants and cash bonuses for veterans. The veteran's education program had an enormous influence on university education for Americans. Prior to the war, only the wealthy attended college. Economists predicted a post-war recession but one never came about. There was meaningful employment for those who did not go to college. They raised good-sized families of what became known as the baby boomer's generation.. Veterans seldom talked about the war, although many stashed away various records and even manuscripts. Reunions were deferred for about fifty years. The vast majority were model citizens. Our victory was the foundation for America's ever improving life style. America's improved life style has favorably influenced much of the world. Thanks be to God who created the G.I. Generation. XYZ Home Page

Haven't heard too much about this subject, though i agree...it should be included. In SC1 i didn't like how the Allies could land anywhere in Europe with impunity and ease...it just wasn't right. I believe that conversation on this topic or related to it has already taken place...and that a solution regarding this situation has been acted upon. I don't know where the links are and i don't particularily care...the best one to get a direct straight answer on this is from Hubert himself or his play-testers.

Good Stuff!!!... John DiFool the 2nd ... i vaguely if at all recollect that...but hey!...that's good you did!. Please post more on this subject if you can with links to those conversations!.

Q-Ships!...that's WW1 stuff!. By WW2 subs surfacing to Pound away at merchant ships was not the going rage anymore...and besides...allied sub detection means had made even getting near convoys a near suicidal effort for the subs!...much less a sub having to worry about being attacked by merchant ships.

To my knowledge...it has been covered...but more so in an abstract way...or talked about. I don't believe that you will have hard and fast shipping lanes to the far reaches of the British Empire that can be attacked by U-Boats. In this game ... much of what you specify is not included as such...but is represented. SC2 is a simplified game...Micro-Managing is not tolerated...so it's not likely that you will see in-depth detail on this subject, other than a few basic convoy runs that will be set and run by the player mostly between America and Europe. Maybey im incorrect!...this was never a major point of interest for me...im sure...someone in the Real-Know will set this straight!.

YES to the above!... all of the above have already been covered in previous postings...though...i didn't study them in detail.

Has anyone done a study relating to the Plunder of countries provided to the major players???. Plunder might unbalance the game...if the plunder is not historically accurate so lets not get carried away with plunder figures. We need real-figures if possible to try to keep Plunder reasonably realistic.

Personally...i think that should be an easy no-brainer option to implement. Im sure that feature can be included to accomodate those who want to have or use it!.

If Malta can be in SC2...then i don't see why Sicily shouldn't be there as well...go figure!.

Your too far ahead of the rest of us in your thoughts on a Strategic Game... . I thought i was the only one on the Outer-Fringes of the "Outer Limits"...but...Hey!...just keep the ideas rolling out...some of them might actually make it into the game or even a MOD!. ***ADVANCED & SECRET WEAPONS SYSTEMS DEVELOPMENT*** http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000295 [ December 08, 2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

Don't know whether that feature will be simulated or not!. I personally favor advances in Sub-Warfare in the game...that could even supercede the Deck-Gun!. The Germans were experimenting with Wire-Guided and Wireless missile systems. Imagine a surfacing Sub having Wire-Guided missiles deploying on deck from with-in the sub...then, these missiles could be launched and directed onto a ship target and follow the ship as it moves...making it nearly impossible to not hit and destroy the target!. This system might be much more effective than torpedo's...and a lot faster than torpedo's.

I agree with that concept...but, only to a point. The British could fully use an MPP transfer as they were more intune and readily capable of utilizing Lend-Lease from America. All or most others...wouldnt have the infrastructure or availability of supply to optimize the equipment that they recieved from a Lend-Lease program. So what im trying to say...is that there could be a DEPRECIATION or %LOSS of MPP's transferred to some countries...not all countries should be able to Utilize the full transfer of the MPP's...the efficiency of usage of MPP's should be on a Country by Country basis!.

It would simplify the game...and thats what SC2 is about!...so i don't see why it wouldn't/couldn't be done...as simplicity and streamling is all what it is about for this 'Strategic Game'.

The invasion of North America has been discussed plenty in this forum...including by me. Few are really interested in this topic...unfortunately!...or in German Long Range Bombers. Check This Old Posting: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000295 Most want a Traditional WW2 Strategic Game...with no major variations or surprises...and only a very few wish to venture past those parameters into unventured territory. http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/ So Good-Luck on your quest to bring these subjects to the forefront...im with you every step of the way!. [ December 08, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

Dont feel bad Victor ... pop in once in a while to give us updated reports on the continuing improvement's/updating of your game!. I wished i had the capability to develop a game,...if i could...i would finally have the game i have been seeking/searching for all my life!. This can be likened to the Quest of... 'Searching For The Perfect Pint!'.

SC2 will no doubt be a great-game and a game to remember for many many years to come...but, it may yet still undergo some revisions and overhaul's before it reaches it's final form. As has Panzer General for example, and many other games. As for an SC3 game...yes, i think so...as we saw crudeness and lacking in SC1 even though it too was a great game...we will see weaknesses and lacking in SC2 at some point,...and clamour to have more improvements in another updated version of this game ... Such-As...SC3!. I have already expoused some improvement's i would like to see...but, perhaps my ideas as well as the ideas of other's are not yet relevant at this stage of 'SC-Development' to be acceptable or implemental at this time. Such As... http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000510 Excerpt From Posting: Nov 11-2004: "With this Research & Design system you can moniter with ease...every single unit you have in your Military-Arsenal...from a few to 10's of thousands if you wish...and it only takes a few moments to do it all!. You can Upgrade older units with new technology...but, only so far!. You can construct Technologically Advanced units...then, incorporate the latest Tech-Improvement's as you can afford them!. If...you can't afford to make a 'General' Upgrade for all units of a particular category...you can Upgrade that Particular unit in what-ever specific formation you desire. For example...you can do a General Upgrade in your Design Screen...for all Pzkwgn IV's for the entire Reich...but,then see that you dont have enough Credits or what-ever to do a system wide upgrade of all of your Tank-Units,...so then you can elect to goto a specific formation...and only upgrade the equipment in that formation...and then upgrade the rest as you are able to later!." Additional Notes "Look's like im the only one interested in this topic subject!...so be it!!!. Now!!!...imagine instead of Space > Destroyer's - Cruiser's & Battleship's in those pictures above...that we had Tank - Aircraft & Ship's instead research & design screen's instead!!!. The above screen-shot's are illustrating example's of how to simplify a Research & Design process to Upgrade or Design New Units of any type. Illustrations & Explanations are given with information on the Research Tech required as well as what previous research is required to eventually research what it is that you wish to research!. Not only that...but you can... VISUALLY see what project you are working on...you can rotate it, repostion it, add new accoutrement's to it and then see what the new-end-result is...these Hungarian Developer's deserve a BIG-HAND!!!!!! for their contribution to the gaming industry...., they have Brain's & Forsight to know how to design a game that is entralling and interesting and easy to use...with a little patience while learning it...as it really is a complex game!. Their method is visually appealing - entertaining and informative...it leaves no blanks in your face!...no, fog of war here!. There is that what i have already said about these 'Grande-Master's-Of-Game-Design' ... and there is also much more i can comment on...but, what matter's most is what the rest of this community has to say...NOT what i have to say!." RJB - Retributar [ December 08, 2004, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

Never accept the status quo!...if you are not entirely happy with it. Press on and on until your case has been properly served! (i too have tried...and have had nearly no-success)... i too would like to see 8 major countries...but, only as an additional option...as SC2 is for now, primarily a European War!. The extra 'Major Countries' feature would really be useful for designing 'Mods' or new scenarios...etc!.

I don't like it!...because, if you switch sides...then,...why are we playing the game?.

I haven't the time for it myself...at this moment...but, we could all benefit if play-testing and development help could be directed to " Victor Reijkersz "...to assist in developing his game..."PEOPLE'S TACTICS v1.0". http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000440 http://www.peoplestactics.com/

From what little i know... they have been play-testing this game for at least 6 month's or more...and have all the game tester's that they need. Speak to ' pzgndr to see if you can assist!.