Iron Ranger

Iron Ranger Consedes to Rambo (axis) with a bid of 150 MPPs. Game was ended due to unknown bug. "second conquest of capital". Thought this bug only applied to France because after Paris is liberated it rejoins the allies as an 'active' country. I (we) were wrong - it applies to any country liberted ( don't think you recive a second set of plunder). If a capital is liberated and you marched over any hex's to gain controll and supply through these hex's then lose the capital again (reconquest) ALL hex's in that country that you do not have a unit on (ZOC no good) revert to the concoring power - leaving any of your units out of suppy and unable to operate out. This bug is partically bad in larger countrys where you will need to trace large lines of supply (In this case Norway and a British army group traped in the MTs). Watch out for it in France, Norway, Spain, and the Balkins mostly. [ May 05, 2003, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ]

If the allies take and lose Paris in the 'overlord' invasion the game treates it as the surender of a major country. All FF units that are in france disband and the entire country turns gray (german). If this problem can not be fixed perhaps a general notice should be posted that the allies must not take Paris till they are sure they can hold it as they will lose control of any ports or citys they do not have units in. I haven't done extensive play testing but it seams that the resouces in France will develop beyond level five even if you do not hold paris - bug? It seams you can link up with and newtral VF and use its capital? I haven't seen a siberian transfer in months during IP play. I don't know if this is a sign of my good play as the allies in delaying the axis (not) or the simple fact that everyone now knows what variables effect this event. I do not see any reason to give the axis a new 'life' (clean out the rest of the newtral after getting the easy front armys in russia) for poor play earlier in the game. Can/should you develop a random number gererator that will cause the siberin tansfer after a certian date and the USSR and USA are in the war? It seams this would provide better play balance, more historical (the lack of attack in the east is what freed up these troops) and elimiate this gamey feature. thanks

Everyone has stated some very good points in this post, and they are all true. Something that I find funny is if you've read of enough of the other posts you know some of the back stories to each entery and questions/statments that they are answering on the side! Obsevations (historical and SC) Military: In the west the allies won because of overwelling/total control of the air and sea. If it takes long range tech to acomplish this then so be it. I enjoy the game but think some of the numbers should be different. Economic: With the unlimited force pools, the side that can build the most wins. So with the four land bridge's and the need to connect each resource to a friendly capital - Spain is the Key. With Spain under axis control the allies will be hard pressed to win. Without it the allies should be able to grind Germany down over time. Political: German political plans (DOWs) are what bring together the forces that can defeat her (USA and USSR). So its a race to make the right DOWs at the right time to contol enough MPPs to stop the other side. The allies (UK) have to delay the germans in FRANCE as long as possiable to make condisions were the attack on Russia is weak with out opening herself for operation Sealion. Turkey: This country is out the window of every experenced SC player - the MTs and fast activation of the red bear make this country and its supply bridge the leapar newtrul. Too bad this country can't be activated as a minor for each side - during the WW2 it swung both ways and joined the allies in mid 1945. After is was sure the germans were done (but it did help in the balkins) and to get British assistance in keep Russia on its side of the border. Remember opinions are like asshole's - everyone's got one!

Thats really unfortunate if this is true - that one side can only win if they invest in and recive this one Tech. If so the game is based only on luck when both players are experenced? This could be why so many players seam to dissapear after several games (that and the shear amout of time required, I think this is a good thing but I have a life outside of this game too). All you need to do is invest in LR and Jets and if you recive them before the other player you win - if not he wins. This game should be more complex then that, with so many factors, techs, units, and a good sized map.

Stoping Bulling air fleets - two options now that v1.07 is out and this area was not changed. 1) Follow Shaka's route and limit the number of air fleets each country can have 2) Make a house rule that you can't invest in LR - this hurts UK but to cominsate by not allowing any investing in IT. This should help USSR and maybe shift the game to the importance of the eastern front. [ April 28, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ]

Thought about going into detail on how to defeat the LC gambit but as I've of late lost two games to it I might not be a good source. So I'll write what not to do and some generalitys. 1) Prepare for it by having three air fleets supported by an HQ within 5 hexs of the capital - This also leaves you good for the attack on Denmark during turns 1&2. Also have 2-4 ground units close enough to attack the hex east of the capital. 2) You must capture Denmark on turn two if you want this to go easy. 3) Turn Three - Finish off poland - attack the east LC hex with your ground troops (your looking to knock him down to '8' and stop entrenchment) - take and hold the North rive hex (if you can) - buy a fourth air fleet and reinforce your starting three - Operate in at least one armor and 1-3 armys from poland. 4) Turn four (this is it) - Finish poland if you didn't in turn three (USSR % goes up next turn) - Attack the east LC hex with 2-3 (hope three) units (make sure they are HQ supplied) and your four air fleet (Hq supplied) - Move your armor into the hex and made sure he will recive supply from a HQ during the counter attack. 5) Repeat if you didn't get the hex or move onto the next hex if you did. Buy a 5th air fleet if you can but you might need to save the polish plunder to reifoce what you have. Don't Wait - if you wait more then 2 turns your done (my experence) - The allies will have HQs and reiforced air to stop you Attack UK navy - for the first 3-6 turns the british navy will be sitting in range but to attack cause's a delay in the ground war - see above Placement - unit placement has to be exact - you only have 2 HQ's and your going to be dealing with many ZOC and crossing 1-2 river hexs so you will need to have your units in some very exact spots - playtest to find which ones - Defeating the LC the 'easy' way Attack on turn two. Alowing the Allies to attack the LC and turning the tables on them can be a game breaker but you need to focus on every detail and thats just not why I'm playing. So attack the LC on turn two and take a beating from the French but you can keep the Axis time table moving forward.

I've always been interested in this subject, if you can get the ball rolling fast for the axis (poland on turn one - denmark or on LC turn two) then france falls very fast and your looking real good! So I ran some play tests on v1.07 - Hotseat Attacked poland with the objective or knocking her out ASAP. 10 attacks Warsaw fell 5 times but the poles didn't surrender Warsaw didn't fall 4 times - left with '1' str corp in the capital Poland Surrendered one time - the only difference was both armys were destroyed Every attack involved all the german resources expect the two corps on the french border. I have seen poland fall and units operated west for the LC attack on turn two but this has to be a very low odds success rate (1%?). Remember when playing he AI on beginer the Human seams to have a bouns 'luck' factor always working to his advantage. The bottom line is that your better off using an over all attack that plans for the possiability of the LC gambit and going for Denmark and maybe Norway before moving onto france by turn 5 or 6.

Thanks for the Wed address - looks like you have the requied numbers, good luck. An exellent job CVM - great to see someone doing this for the pure enjoyment of the game.

I think you ment to say your are accepting applicant's - lol Where are these free image hosting sites - could you post one of thier wed address's? Thanks

Hmmm - two thoughts 1) Still no 'supply bridge' from USA to Canada. There are three in the game (Den/Sed - Sp/NA - UK/Irland?. Why not put in one more - USA/Can? 2) For fighter's you have three numbers - action points, Attack range, sight range. Right now the attack range is used for bomber escort. If you were to change the numbers to the one's in the above post to 5/3/4, you could use the action point number as the bomber support number and keep it close to historical, as they used drop tanks ect.. to allow them to range out with the B-17's, B-24 ect... [ April 25, 2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ]

I haven't, nor seen anyone post on testing the allied minors after a major power falls and what happens to the MPPs. In the past this was one of the great downfalls to losing the UK - the Canadain MPPs vanished and your ability to contol Minors as they were attacked detereated. Any word on this? Air Power: It not a question of fighters being too powerfull (they were and still are the most important unit in large scale combat, even in the 1940's) Example: In late 1944 the allies on the western front were running out of men/needed more combat troops, why? Because even at this late date the Axis powers (germany) still had more combat troops (and better to boot) then the British and American's combined! Then why did that allied attack go so well from June 1944 on? Because of thier OVER powering air force, I don't have the numbers but it was huge, combined with an exellent communication system that allowed fighter/bombers to zero in on axis troops at the drop of a hat, it was the determining factor in the west. BUT: In this game it the LONG RANGE ability of the fighters that causes problems. The bombers seam right to history, maybe they should start at 5/7 (sight/combat) as a long range bombing run was there and back while scouting would mean you had to do some searching, but 6/8 seams ok. Now the fighers are another story, they have a much shorter range and even less when involved in combat so I think the 'numbers' should be swaped. Sight range 1 higher then combat range and should start much lower, say 4/3 (sight/combat). Lets look at todays planes, the 'Worthog' is thought of as the best ground attack fighter today - its combat range is less then 225 miles (say four hexs at 50 MPH) and its 2003. Yet in a hitorical game based in the 1940's we have fighters that can range 300 at the start and end up rangeing 550 miles if you recive L5 LR tech. Thats were the problem lies - the damn planes can cover too much ground and perform combat missions. I know combat at this scale is not one day attacks and can cover from 2 weeks to 3 month (turns) but air fleets had a huge lagistical tail and didn't run around the country side during combat - they setup shop and stayed close to the front untill the front moved. Escort duty is another ball of wax - maybe use the 'seach' number as the one for assisting in bomber raids. Just my thought to the depressing direction that most games end up in. Who can kill HQs faster. It would be nice to see the AA rader Tech increase the air defence of HQs. They act like a strigitic resource (L5 city) why not give it the benifit of being one. MPH = Miles per hex

I had a problem when I switched to cable/DSL also. It came down to me using the wirless modem - seams you need to change some of the intermal settings. There is a PDF file with the game or the down loaded patches that should help you solve this problem. I ended up getting rid of the wirless modem and went to an eathernet wired system. Not alot of help, sorry.

So is the 'mouse' a L5 tank - I don't think I've ever seen L5 in HvsH but this seams the right one. By the time you get this far you don't have enough money to purchase it!

I have not had this problem anymore, odd. The only thing that I did was defrag an run diskscan. Yes I normally have some music running in the back ground and maybe a web page or two. System 850 hz Afton (?) - equal to a Pen III 6gig HD High speed cable connection.

Thanks, this should be interesting. I droped you a line to play but you were not around, into a game now. Maybe another day.

Is it me or are there alot less people heading to the Finder Forum these days? I know its almost summer (and I won't be online alot eather) but for the thousands of people that I assume bought this game you seam to see almost the same 5-10 people every week with one or two newbies thrown in the mix. This is the first and only game that I care to play/try online, so is this normal? Its iteresting that Zappsweden's Ladder has over fifty names but how many have more then 2 games listed? Is the learning curve too great or does it require just too much time to play once you become and face experenced players (30+ hours for one game is not unreal)? Just an observation.

Thinking that Hubert might have left a hidden bonus to attacking USSR early (Siberian Transfer only after a certian date, Dec 1941). I play tested an AI game and followed historcal events as best I could using the v1.07 patch. I followed the historical path of: Poland, Denmark, Norway (due to a UK landing fighting continued till the winter or 1940), LC, and France falling in late summer of 1940. The Itialians captured Athens with German help and spent the early 1/2 of 1941 pounding on egypt. The Germans waged an air war on england from France and Norway while the ground units preped for USSR and the June 22 date. Yougoslovia couped in mid June and was left for the minor allies so as to not disrupt my attack on the Red Bear. I made it to the gates of Moscow in early augest and almost surounded the city the next turn. Then Bang - the siberian army transfered and I was thrown back with heavy damage to many units (HQs were too slow). USA entered on Nov 2 (one month early as normal)and I stoped play. What if any is that advantage to attacking russia early? Can anyone give me one? I thought that the lack of a Siberian Transfer until TWO historical condisions were meet might be it. ONE: the disastorus military situation in the moscow front. TWO: The red spy network informing Stalin that the Japs were attacking the USA and moving into Southeast Asia, confermed by the attack on Pearl Harbor and USA entering the war.

Just a question, has anyone ever seen the USA enter even close to her historical date? In every game this country always enters early, even as early as the summer of 41 when the only abnormal DOW is Sweden. I've even seen the allies DOW on Iraq, Irland and the LC and she still enter's in the fall of 41. It seams the % readness for USA needs to be decreased by 10 and USSR's increased by 10.

OK - I'll try to make some detailed notes next time.

yes, not a problem with v1.06 just the new patch.

Random events and DOW are nice and make each replay different. But in saying that there are three date dependant events that seam to be really out of wack. US readnes/DOW, USSR readness, Siberian transfer. I don't want to get into a rant on this, expecialy now that v1.07 is out and they won't be changed. But how often, if ever, do these events take place anywhere near thier histrical time. Quite often US enters in the early Fall of 41, not the winter of 41, even without the extra DOW by the Axis. When do you ever see an axis attack on Russia before the late fall of 41 and sometimes as late as Feb 42. The Siberian transfer never happens in the winter of 41, these troops were sent to the Moscow front for two reason. One, the Rising Sun Empire had attacked in the Pacific and the red spy system had notified Moscow that thier border was safe. Two the need for these high quality troops due to the german attack (this part the game does have right). But this event should be based solely on political events and not on the position of the german army. EXP: If USA has entered the war, and USSR is an active power, and it is past Date X, then there should be a 90% chance of the transfer until the germans are with in 3 hexs of Moscow, the the odds increase to 100%.

Side note/observation. During battles in v1.07 there seams to be a pause as the computer does the caculuations between the 'exposions'. It only is a second or two but noticable. It could be just me but its happened during several IP games with dirrerent people.

This might not be a bug, or even cause any problems but I did notice this 'abnormalty'. When France falls and the allies have units in the two coastal city's they remain in allied hands, with the ports. OK. At the end of the german turn / start of the UK turn, on the axis screen, the values for the city is 5, but the ports read 10. According to Destoyer (allies) the UK screen is reading 5 (city) and 5 (port). Just a FYI, we didn't continue and I assume that they will both be 5 at the end of his turn but this might give the allies and aditional 10 MPPs for one turn.

Sand castle and Iron Ranger fight to a draw. Summer of 1944, no Siberian Transfer but no allied navy left so operation Overlord was not looking good for even 1946.

This still leads to the gamey play of containing London then taking out the rest of the island when it has poor support and coming back to finish the job in London. Is this also possiable in Russia, surround Moscow and the USSR can't build any new units (hmmm, I seem to remember reading a post that said this is true). Anyway thanks for the prompt responce.