SeaMonkey

And also remember Nagumo's change of bombs for torpedos that delayed the strike at the American CVs, which allowed the SBDs, who just happened to be arriving, to catch the Jap. carriers with fully loaded aircraft on the flight deck.

Sorry Logan I've been stuck at work for the past 2 days and have not checked my email, will do this weekend, I'm sure they're there, thanks again [ July 25, 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Man I really like where this concept is going, Germany with its WW1 fleet. Sounds like a new campaign is in the womb. As far as the USSR activation, the only way I can see to make it fair on the East front is allow the Germans a small attacking army group. Currently AGs in "Weltflotte" are configured around HQ, with artillery(rockets), a corps, an army, a tank group, and an air fleet, although this is not written in stone and their are variations. At the beginning of this campaign Germany and Italy are poised to attack France and the Pyrenees have a small avenue of attack also, essentially France is surrounded. Therefore there are not a lot of Axis forces to deal with the Soviet threat; so I'm not particularly worried about them slicing right through. In the vastness of the USSR a German army group will be insignificant. The balancing trick is getting the Soviets potent enough to deal with the Germans after they have subdued the French and by then the US ground and air forces will be coming on line, the ole 2 front dilemma. The Med will be a rough and tumble fight at this point especially if the Brits are using the Suez loop. I,ve already got all the Italian HQs deployed, but I've been thinking I might add some flavor by putting an Italian army group on the USSR border, that is if I choose to activate them(USSR). What do y'all think the timeline will be for the other Axis minors to join? All are on neutral presently. Should I activate them? I kind of wanted to keep turkey isolated for a while. I also have thought of an optional Finnish campaign for the Soviets to train their starting units on, again dependent on activation status. Give me some feedback.

Input much appreciated Panzer, sounds like we're looking for the same ends using a slightly different track. Here is the premise of "Weltflotte": Germany has conquered Poland in 39 as historical, and the attack on France and the LCs has progressed to the Meuse crossings. Its at this point in 1940 that Neville Chamberlain sustains a "no confident" vote in Parliament and is replaced, not by Winston Churchill but Lord Halifax. The UK and France immediately sue for peace and gladly transfer Cyprus and Malta to the Axis, who now include an active Italy, to cease hostilities. Peace for 3+ years, but the Japanese attack USA, UK, & France and they are at war as historical. The UK and France realize that this peace in Europe is short lived and take actions in the Mid. East and N. Africa to consolidate their positions, conquering Iraq and Iran as historical, but this has the effect of driving Turkey into the Axis camp. Meanwhile back on the Iberian peninsula the treacherous Spanish are plotting to conspire with the Axis to attack Gibralter, part of Raeder's 3 phase plan Operation Sphinx 1. I forgot to mention that Goering had died back in late 1940 due to a hunting mishap, so co-operation between Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe has developed extensively. The USA is activated with fleet assets immediately available but all other forces will have to be built up as the Americans are deeply embroiled in the Pacific. The Germans,and to a lesser extent the Italians (Africa dabbling), have enjoyed 3+ years of building, training and expanding their military in comparatively peaceful conditions, while the USA, UK, and France have made considerable investments into stopping the Japanese in the Pacific and their ventures (UK & France)in the Mideast. Now as 1944 looms the Axis are ready to pounce with the USSR still hiding behind the non-aggression pact. I am leaning to not activating the Soviets initially although I would like to tailor their forces, but I need them not to be a significant contributor for about 6 months to a year. I have thought about giving them a bunch of 1 strength units but at 480 MPPs per turn, they'll probably get active to quickly. Got any ideas to accomplish this?

Exactly Night, it depends on your overall strategy for the Allies. If you play in the Med., like trying to take Iraq, the French HQ is invaluable as a supply link. You just got to know when to evac. the continent before France falls and a couple of French units help also. The thing is, it's a balance between holding out on the continent, preventing Seelowe, and offensive intentions to slow the German build up to Barbarossa.

By the way I'm toying with the idea of u-boat "ruse" units in the Atlantic, initially deployed to impede and confuse the Allied task forces. Germany will be at level 4 subs and these ruse units will have a strength of 1 or 2. Can anyone think of any consequences, other than the experience gain for the Allies, that could be detrimental to the game. Would allowing the Axis player to edit the campaign by initially changing the deployment positions of the "ruse" units be to complicated?

Thanks Archibald, the "Oxford Companion to WW2" has already been ordered ala Amazon, it will be a valuable addition to my library, of which I hardly ever get to read but always available for reference.

Well I'm sure glad the Forum historian is back posting and you seemed have added some 6th sense also as you have mentioned Spain as an Axis participant. Spain is the first part of Operation Sphinx or at least the attack on Gibralter. It seems Raeder knew that further operations in North Africa/Mid. East were dependent on the Med. being closed to the UK. His plan was to operate German support forces (mainly large caliber artillery)and air to Spain, while the Spanish supplied the infantry. By attacking across the bay from Algeciras his estimate was that Gibralter would fall in three to six weeks. This will open the Med to German naval assets in SC and simulate their use of the Canarys. I'm hoping that the initial deployment of surface vessels (to protect subs) and subs to the Atlantic by Germany, along with the immediate availability of US naval forces will be the catalyst for an Atlantic battle. The Axis will have to maintain a strict timetable to take Gibralter as eventually the Allied naval forces will overwelm them. Anyway that is the jist of the opening phase of "Weltflotte", getting it balanced will be the trick.

Thanks for the insight JJ it will help me determine doctrinal advantages and research levels. As for the rockets deficiency for UK and USA, I hope to counter that with strat. bomber deployments. By the way I have read that the actual Z-plan was not slated for completion until 1947. If that's true then in 1944 it would only be approx. 60% complete, is that your understanding? Also one other interesting aspect of the Z-plan, there was rumor that the Gneisenau and Scharnhorst were to be refitted with 15" guns and at 35K tons plus wouldn't that put them in a Battleship category? I know we don't have a battlecruiser icon so which are they closer to; an understrenghth BB or an over strength (13) CA? And what about the Panzerschiffes, what is your feel on them? I understand that 4 a year were supposed to be laid down until the projected 15 were completed. I'm trying to concentrate mainly on quality units and not quantity, without any additional starting MPPs. Through the first starting turns' intensity there should be a marketable reduction in force sizes. [ July 24, 2003, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Hey you guys need to check out the map for Matrix's "War in the Pacific" game coming out next year, now that's a map. www.matrixgames.com

Thanks Archibald, Now a question for the forum, I need some opinions on ratings. Example: I have decided that the US Essex class CV and operational doctrine will be the highest rated in the beginning of "Weltflotte"(early 1944/late 1943). Strength of 13 with 1 experience. So let's say the second best country UK is at .7 experience and the Ark Royal class CV is strength 9. How would you rate the Graf Zeppelin or the French Bearn? Now rate the other CV classes and perhaps the CVL classes, remember things like a/c capacity, doctrine, armaments and armor count. Carrying this concept a little further, rate infantry, tanks, airfleets, etc. Also, how many ships(carrier,BBs,CA/CL,subs) should be represented by the single SC icon at strength 10.

Logan, Thanks, yes indeed I want them, send to bradtap@aol.com. In my new "Weltflotte" campaign all the participants will be getting rockets to use as artillery (level 3). Those icons will be perfect for the change. Thanks again

Logan, How about a WW2 artillery piece for the rocket icon, for us regular users of SC?

Hey Zapp, In those Rambo-Terif games where Terif had no counter to the LC early DoW by the Allies, I'm assuming Terif lost?

OK all you "what if" WW2 historians i need some assistance on a SC campaign i'm doing by the subject title. This is from the book "The Hitler Options" and is about the (hypothetical) culmination of plan z and Raeder's plan for Axis domination of the Med. It will be a short(3 years) intense campaign starting in early 1944. Currently I'm using John Ellis' WW2 fact book, "The Luftwaffe Data Book" and the previous mentioned title to develop this. Does anyone have any other reference suggestions to develop this campaign? I will be running some other ideas (esp. delaying activation/development) across the forum to help balance this campaign. Thanks to all in advance.

Jergen, They are probably still in the file/folder. Use Explorer (windows) and open the folders to get the bmp files, then left click and hold to drag the opened bmp files to the Bitmap folder on the left side of Explorer's window under the SC program file. I'm assuming you already extracted the files. If you do this right the program will ask you if you want to overwrite the files, "Yes to all"

OK, I'm in for $20, but don't give me a patch or two, what we need and will pay for is a decent, (let's all say it together) GAME EDITOR.

Hey Edwin and Kurt hows the naval model doing in HoI, especially the carrier simulation? I planned to purchase it once they get that patched successfully. What do you think about the RTS vs SC's turn based?

Gen. Rambo,... correction,... "We're not going to take it", "Never did and Never will".....1968....."Tommy"...."The Who".

Agreed JJ. By the way your recent adjustments of B-L Aftermath has made it a most engrossing campaign. What ebb and flow. First the Axis must take France with the Russian Bear knocking on the door. Then with most assets tranfered to the east, here come the Americans. Axis must push very hard - west - east - west, being very careful not to over do research. There still may be a slight edge to Allies, but isn't that historic? My congrats and thanks, and I nominate this campaign for a ladder.

Could it be that all of my SC compatriots agree on this premise? We want the world, I mean the editor and we want it now,... now,.... NOW! Ok I'm not Jim Morrison. Sorry HC, please forgive my excessive furor, but this excellent creation of yours cries out for more refinement and my fellow brethren evoke passionate enlightenment to assist. Please give us the tools in SC2 and we will forever be your loyal subjects, as if we were not already.

I like it Edwin. But obviously an astute AI would be compromised by the complexity. I've said it before and I'll say it again, what this game really needs is an accomplished editor, with a lot of depth. That in itself would lend to the variation of replay we all crave and guarantee the longevity of the SC legacy,... simply the bottom line.

Jackpot! HJA, just heard back from my daughter, in her words, "I have a ton of pictures". Some maybe sensitive so she is getting clearence for release.

Actually Edwin and Night that's a great idea. Ah yes Koei's PTO II on the superNintendo was really fun, alas SuperN is disfunctional. The card playing game was a little lame but it was useful as a policy tool. Remember Night it was only like every 6 months or was it a year that you could effect doctrinal changes. On a semi-annual basis I don't believe it would be to cumbersome for SC2. Doctrinal Techs/research/orientations would add a lot of replay variation to SC2. How about it HC?

Yeah JJ I could have used those minors early. Its not easy for the axis fighting an immediate 2 front war. With Arby stomping back in the Russian steppes and without HQ support I had to invade them, couldn't wait for them to join. The rockets provide a nice surprise but their immobility is a deterent, they cost 49 MPP to operate at lvl 5. And by the way my wimpering axis ass is not parked in Berlin, its in Rome, the place is more nostalgic, besides its closer to the water. Oooh! The Americans? I've got a nice soft couch waiting and the movie projector is loaded, soon the popcorn will be ready, they won't be a problem.