SeaMonkey

Whoops! My mistake, please define "stopping". SC = 50 miles per hex, 12 miles = 1/4 of hex, rounded that equals 0. See I knew there would be "mucho qualifications", should have remained silent, but boring day at work, the bosses are here.

Please allow me "Dear Shaka"; off the top of my head but with mucho qualifications, please define (TO&E) "infantry" and "armored" divisions and I'll go with Webster on "fortress". How about US 99th (green) at Elsenborn vs 12 SS Hitler Jugend Dec. 16-20, 1944 B of the B. And yes, the US 2nd was attacking at the time through their lines.

I'll buy in when the expansion/editor pack includes a fully modable SC (current version) and I'm talking about right down to the combat algorithms, all the way baby! This is the only way SC will evolve to the aspirations of this forum, but don't expect a consensus, ever. I won't be doing any editing (perhaps) but I sure will enjoy playing all the great scenarios you guys come up with. You can only count on opinions and money from me, a player not a modder.

I hear ya SW48, just posting someone else's research, that's kind of a problem about stats vs the "truth". Notice that I did refer to Allied and FBs using bombs and rockets, not cannon. And I wonder who it was that confirmed all of Rudel's reported "kills". One thing is for sure, airpower is devastating, just ask the Iraqis(excluding al-Sahhaf). [ April 09, 2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Gnarly, brah(RB). This SC Hodad will be cuttin it(turn 50) back at you when it hits the crib. Oh yeah-good post, as usual.

In agreement Shaka, it should impact offensive capability, actually I thought it did, maybe that's why RB is taking me to the cleaners. By the way RB didn't you get move 50? Ditto that toke, but gotta go "surf's up".

Saw this interesting statistic..... in WWII, Allied fighter-bombers on averaged fired or dropped 800 bombs / 3500 rockets to kill one tank. Makes you rethink the relationship of air to armored ground force's combat.

Shaka, how about "rate of firing" and time for in-battery deployment (mobility). Would/could artillery doctrine be an additional research step?

Since SC is a game of generalities I'll offer a general statement, strength point = combat effectiveness.

Move & Attack, Attack & Move..... thought that is a perfectly acceptable concept for the battlefield? How far can infantry march, tanks move, Mech/Mot. forces cover (clear terrain/light to no resistance, good weather) in a day, a week? SC scale = 50 miles per hex/turn = week. What are the numbers, if it applies to air (real life) then it should apply to ground forces. What are other limiting factors to movement assuming full supply? Adjust action points to apply to the real battlefield conditions,... simple?

RB, in agreement with your concepts, especially the attack equating to a # of action points, perhaps 2 in clear terrain. But I do want to see a new unit, Mech./Mot. corps, to operate with the new and improved tank forces. And yes, the great devastator of combat forces, artillery, should somehow be actively researched(remember the proximity fuse) for improved application to attack/defence, maybe gunlaying radar is the medium in addition to rockets(need to be transportable).

Well I gave two of my nephews (FPS players) SC for Christmas. Showed them how to play and then challenged them any time anywhere. First time they beat me its $20 in their pocket, 2nd time $30, 3rd $40 and so on. Shamed them about their brainless fast fingers and still no takers, but they sure trash talk.

Definitely go with Mr. P's suggestions, this is exactly what I'd hoped for from the "Russia Devastated" thread, only both sides should suffer % readiness reduction and lower supply could reduce action points, simulating the effects of Russian winter. Since the game has been extended, these 3 turns per year shouldn't impact the game detrimentally. The initial placement of the Red Army's frontier forces works well by simulating the historical blitz of the Germans (RB is to Smolensk in 2 turns), but the inactive period in the winter will give them time to recover. Another effect is that now the Axis will have to start their Barbarossa with an abundance of good weather turns ahead as historically was the case. These effects (reduced readiness and supply) could also be activated randomly (scarce one turn events)to simulate instances of bad weather throughout the year, possibly grounding aircraft for a turn, disallowing spotting, etc.

Dang JJ, the messenger handed me your post during my audience with the General Staff and not surprisingly I laughed aloud! Well anyway their going to go ahead and shoot me now, so the birdb...uhh, monument is still applicable.

So "Gambut" (gamey but ahistorical) is alive and well. Now if the General Staff will just buy it. Thanks, Mr. H, anyone else? [ January 31, 2003, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Ok Barry, I nominate you to design the economic format for SC2. I will only digress with one of your statements although somewhat accurate. Oil is useful before it's processed; it can be used in its raw form as bunker fuel for ship's boilers. FYI the high octane fuel was leaded alkylate, 120 octane used in high performance (supercharged) engines of WW2 aircraft. Petroleum is easily refined in a first cut application, we can even do it at "The Still" if we wished, but we don't like our white lightening with an oil taste.

Mr. Hueristic.........Hello?.....What? Excuse me Mr.H......"Comrade SeaMonkey the General Staff wishes another debriefing. They think you may have additional information and if it is useful they may commute your sentence to hanging." Oh Gee that's better! Did you hear that Mr.H, perhaps a reprieve? Now I need your valuable input as I agree I allowed for too great an initial expansion. Briefly, that dastardly RB took Denmark, L.Countries, Norway, and Sweden in sequential one turn moves; Poland lasted 2; and France till early July 40. I was able to kill 1 army, 1 panzer and reduce another panzer to one, but it cost me 2 carriers, in the French debacle. While all the minors joined in succession, I nipped and held Bergen and Brest for awhile. I was a good boy and did not use any gambuts, I promised not to attack Italy B/4 the game started (as a gambut). Now, Mr.H, for my memoirs, for the General Staff, what could I have done better? Anyone! My life, my neck, depends on it! You guys ought see this. Most of the 4th Inf. is moving their equipment through this port presently, Bradleys, Abrams, Humvees, Strykers WOW! Heavy lift naval vessels, I think my Red Army is going to last longer than Iraq's.

Ahh, yes thanks JJ and to all at "The Still", but let it be a monument to my impetuous stupidity of goading such a master strategist as RB into battle. I am seriously overmatched and soon the USSR will cease to exist. I have learned much, but unfortunately the knowledge will succumb to the creeping algae that forever recycles the inscriptions of my cell walls.

The time was late November 1941 and an ominous breeze of uncertainty blew across the western steppes of Russia. The rains, mud, and familiar snowfall had not come this year (SC weather), yet the optimistic people of the Motherland looked to the holiday season with the promise of a mundane winter.......It was "not to be". Like a knife through butter, water through a sieve, the German juggernaut struck wreaking havoc as flames through a dried forest. Eight (L2) armies, 8 groups of steel horses (L2) and 5 screeching flocks of "Birds of Prey" (L1), spitting fire and brimstone, descended upon the peace loving colossus known as the USSR. The 9 Red armies of the frontier backed by reserve tank groups and supported by the obsolete Red airforce fought galantly to stem the Nazi tide, but alas, ....it was "not to be". One could hope this "maelstrom of death" would be localized to the forward deployments, but the daggers of Pz IV F2s and mammoth Tiger tanks penetrated deeply (SC scale=250 miles)into the heart of the Motherland destroying both reserve tank groups. Even the picturesque Baltic city of Riga did not escape the ravages. It was now silent there save for the clanking Tigers and 'scruch , scruch' of hobnailed boots sending the citizens cowaring in their false havens. Only in the south one bastion remained.. "Heil Odessa".. its garrisoning army stood against the Axis hord (minors) as its sister army (strength 4) limped to the east, the sole survivor. It was over in a flash and now the great wounded Bear, slathering a crimson trail behind, crawled to the east, but wait, one last tearful glimpse back to the west, yes the west....the western democracies, would they come, would they help? Yes my fellow SC patrons this is the scene bestowed upon me in one turn. Perpetrated by the efficient Feld Marshall RB and his unrelenting armed forces I have been the recipient of the most devastating one turn sequence in the history of my SC competition. Last night, a night that will live in infamy on my hard drive, half a million men and a thousand tanks perished in the blink of an eye and I was hapless to do a thing. Surely some of you have experienced a similar event. I told the tribunal those were not my forward deployments and there were others who had a comparable incident. But now as I write my memoirs on the stone walls of my cell, I need to be consoled by fellow SC patrons, so let me hear about those "devastating one moves" you have been subjected to. Be quick with your replies as I will be shot in the morning.

Well then again maybe we(me) aren't so smart......stupid double-post!!!!!

Barry, wonderful evaluation. I've not played these games so I cannot be critical, but its just an example of what I've been saying. HC, I know your listening, what an opportunity. This forum has such compelling dedication to the baby(SC) you created, you cannot help but succeed with SC2,3 ... Failure is beyond comprehension, I've seen this environment before. So what say yee, where are we going?

Barry, wonderful evaluation. I've not played these games so I cannot be critical, but its just an example of what I've been saying. HC, I know your listening, what an opportunity. This forum has such compelling dedication to the baby(SC) you created, you cannot help but succeed with SC2,3 ... Failure is beyond comprehension, I've seen this environment before. So what say yee, where are we going?

Actually I was thinking more on the lines of; say you have a large hex designated "The Marshalls", which is garrisoned by Japanese icon and you are approaching this archipelago with a transported corps stacked with a carrier group(SC1)intent to occupy, you could 1. simply attack and let the computer equate the results or 2. go to the battle map which may have 37 hexes with the island group layout and combat units previously organized as the initial task force broken down into their individual units and fight the battle operationally.

Had forgotten about this thread, but yes Sarge sort of. See I'm not really sure specifically how to handle SC global scale. The many talented people on this forum can and will come up with workable solutions. Its just a matter of HC to direct us. We are all devoted to making SC the strategic game of our dreams, isn't that how it starts. We will playtest/discuss the hell out of any version HC presents us with until it fits the bill. It won't be the dream fulfilled for everyone, but it will be damn close. As far as multi-dimensional, think about the geometric configuration of a hex, isn't it just concentric arrangement of hexes, 1 big hex = 7 or 19 or 37... smaller hexes.

IRL if you have a quality individual/group, whether he is in a position to use his training or not, he usually will excel at whatever task he attempts. Resources are recyclable to some extent. Allow % MPP recovery for disbanding.