panzermartin

Also no smoke trail behind something, what hit helicopter, so this wasn't SA-missile.

If the planes were on their way home the friendly fire scenario would be more plausible. But apparently they were not. 

Warfare porn provides no actional battlefield information to anyone and just gets the dumb and ill informed jolly's off. Posting a link to the AP or ISW is a different and more meaningful way for people to stay informed. Everyone knows this.
Just some are addicted to watching a mans head blow off. And then giggle like a school girl. 

Well, the West is frequently taking the moral high ground towards the rest of the world. And that simply means we are held to higher standards. If we criticize other countries about the 100 things that go wrong there (rightly so!) every single thing we are doing wrong hurts our credibility (internally and externally, e.g. there is often a lot of grumbling about how democratic Germany really is compared to China...)
I'd still much rather live in Europe or the US but here is another problem: While it is good to live in a western democracy, many people living elsewhere couldn't care less whether they are dealing with a democracy or some autocrat because the net result, for them is identical.
The US get the most criticism because they have the greatest power (with great power comes great responsibility...). But there is another thing to consider: Hollywood. Everyone on the globe knows Hollywood movies (German movies... not so much, which is a good thing...). And there the US and especially the US armed forces are mostly depicted as fighting for the good of all mankind and not (like everyone else) for their own interests. So the contrast with reality is particularly strong here.

Regarding the recent trench videos, not sure if this was posted. I found the analysis interesting. 

Ukrainian, of course. If Wagners dig something long-term, they do this is own close and far rear. Close to the enemy Wagners either use natural terrain cover or dig deep and often multiple foxholes for one-two persons, where they can take cover from artillery shelling or await for burst on UKR positions. Because of this Madyar called them "khrobaky" - "worms", which became one more names for enemy. 

Yes it could be a combination of all thes above . I made the assumption because it seems lately they release these away from UA AA fire , even from inside their own borders? 
https://wavellroom.com/2023/04/17/russian-glide-bombs/

Yes they do. 50-70km away from target. Thats why UKR desperately needs an antidote for this.
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/04/09/su-34-and-su-35-drop-1500-kg-gliding-bombs-stunning-ukraine/

The Iroquois nation appreciates your support.

19 still better than 1. We are forgetting Turkey, a precious NATO member that 50yrs ago invaded and occupied northern Cyprus in a Donbas scenario type intervention "to protect the Turkish population" .
Who Recognised Northern Cyprus?   In 1983, a Turkish-controlled area located on the northern section of the island declared its independence, calling itself the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC). Turkey has been the only country in the world to recognize the TRNC, however.   Who talks about northern Cyprus anymore? It's like nothing ever happened, It's gone for the Greek cypriots.     

Moment of bomb explosion in Belgorod. At 0:10 the bomb hit parking pocket near the road and penetrates relatively deep to the ground. At 0:29 it blows up and throws a car on the roof of supermarket. 
Citizens were really lucky that bomb exploded in the depth - only two people were injured, nearby buildings got some damage, several cars were destroyed or damaged
 

Yes thats a very good reason also. Takes away a lot of weight. I understand this. For the remote poster outside of this conflict I might feel he deserves less excuse.
Ukrainians though have all the reasons to feel like that, I admit, after all the war was imposed on them. Its not only them, there are also pro russian sites where the comments are very disturbing under videos and makes you wonder how many rats are out there. This board has been very restrained in contrast, depsite also having ukrainian posters. I still think I need to skip reading comments in twitter and elsewhere because I think its mental health deteriorating.  

My take after 6 months peacekeeping in Bosnia in '93 -  Savagery is baked into human beings.  Sorry, there is no 'better angels of our nature'  My time in Bosnia dispelled that myth real quick.  The 'better angels of our nature' happens because we employ the frontal cortex to govern ourselves.  But warfare is very primal and hits the primitive emotional centers of our brains first.   Once that happens, the excesses of violence humans are capable of know no bounds.  Which is why in the 22nd century in the future, historians and people will be examining the genocides of the 21st century and asking the same questions.

Situaion in Bakhmut
Russians could push off UKR forces slightly south from some parts of Rose Alley in northern part of city. Heavy skirmishes around grain elevator, which still under UKR control. 
One of two streets, which UKR troops have recaptured yesreday, again was seized by Russians. 
On southern flank, as became knowingly from Russian sources, UKR forces on 18th of April have retaken positions around old quarry between Stupochky and Klishchiivka

I'm far, faaar from that. I'm quite modest. But sometimes this board has the exact opposite world view. A fairytelish one if we remind ourselves how many times we make LOTR comparisons here drawing a distinct line between the enlighted of this world (West ) vs the orcs, russians, chinese whatever. 
It's a mentality heading for a total clash of the two worlds, maybe I'm naive enough thinking we can prevent it. 
 

Ironically the most expansionist feature of China was kickstarted from western companies/goverments , mostly US, that transfered all their hardware there to cut the costs and make some more free cash. That started to turn them into the behemoth we are all depended upon and in case of a war this will kickback mercilessly against all of us. Their military expansionism is an infant in comparison. When was the last time China army went to war? Started a war even? I can't remember.    

I've watched quite a few of those close action videos posted from both sides and I'm coming to the conclusion that modern soldiers have become even less densesitized firing at the enemy than what was described in the book "on killing". Some of you might have read about it. There was a theory that in WW2 most soldiers didn't fire their guns at all or didn't shoot to kill but mostly injure the enemy. That changed the coming decades, particularly from wiki :
 
 
"As a result of Marshall's work, modern military training was modified to attempt to override this instinct, by:
using man-shaped targets instead of bullseye targets in marksmanship practice practicing and drilling how soldiers would actually fight dispersing responsibility for the killing throughout the group displacing responsibility for the killing onto an authority figure, i.e., the commanding officer and the military hierarchy (see the Milgram experiment) By the time of the United States involvement in the Vietnam War, says Grossman, 90 % of U.S. soldiers would fire their weapons at other people.
He also says the act of killing is psychologically traumatic for the killer, even more so than constant danger or witnessing the death of others.
Grossman further argues that violence in television, movies and video games contributes to real-life violence by a similar process of training and desensitization."
I know the brutality and hate of this conflict may have surpassed any training needed to reach those levels and not sure if those videos represent the general rule but there is something in this war that I haven't seen before. From that video with the russian drone dropping a grenade to an injured Ukranian pleading for his life to the close Call of duty action trench clearing videos I find it disturbing to see perfect killing machines, or find that people from both sides enjoy the video clips with techno and dance music.
I mean, how normal is that? 
 
 
 

I've watched quite a few of those close action videos posted from both sides and I'm coming to the conclusion that modern soldiers have become even less densesitized firing at the enemy than what was described in the book "on killing". Some of you might have read about it. There was a theory that in WW2 most soldiers didn't fire their guns at all or didn't shoot to kill but mostly injure the enemy. That changed the coming decades, particularly from wiki :
 
 
"As a result of Marshall's work, modern military training was modified to attempt to override this instinct, by:
using man-shaped targets instead of bullseye targets in marksmanship practice practicing and drilling how soldiers would actually fight dispersing responsibility for the killing throughout the group displacing responsibility for the killing onto an authority figure, i.e., the commanding officer and the military hierarchy (see the Milgram experiment) By the time of the United States involvement in the Vietnam War, says Grossman, 90 % of U.S. soldiers would fire their weapons at other people.
He also says the act of killing is psychologically traumatic for the killer, even more so than constant danger or witnessing the death of others.
Grossman further argues that violence in television, movies and video games contributes to real-life violence by a similar process of training and desensitization."
I know the brutality and hate of this conflict may have surpassed any training needed to reach those levels and not sure if those videos represent the general rule but there is something in this war that I haven't seen before. From that video with the russian drone dropping a grenade to an injured Ukranian pleading for his life to the close Call of duty action trench clearing videos I find it disturbing to see perfect killing machines, or find that people from both sides enjoy the video clips with techno and dance music.
I mean, how normal is that? 
 
 
 

Ok, this is off topic anyway, so I will stop here. Just saying this because I'm unhappy about the way we are discussing.
I did not say it wasn't about China. When someone buys a gun and says it's because I don't like the way my neighbor looks at my children then it is about said neighbor. But that in itself is not evidence that this neighbor is a pedophile.
Back to China: I'm fully aware of the fact that China seeks to dominate the world, they even say so themselves. I myself have been warning about China for at least a decade. But I am not aware that they plan to do it by militarily conquering it. There are other ways, economical, for example. I'm not saying they won't use military means to achive some of their goals - and I'm sorry if that upsets people - similar to the USA. I don't equate the US to China, just saying that the US has a huge military that isn't just there to defend against the bad guys but to help with all sorts of geopolitical interests. That doesn't make the US government expansionistic, though, and neither does it make the Chinese government, for all their evilness, expansionistic.
Back to Australia: All the above may be a good enough reason to buy nuclear submarines (e.g. to protect trafe routes) without implying that China is about to invade Australia.
 

I've watched quite a few of those close action videos posted from both sides and I'm coming to the conclusion that modern soldiers have become even less densesitized firing at the enemy than what was described in the book "on killing". Some of you might have read about it. There was a theory that in WW2 most soldiers didn't fire their guns at all or didn't shoot to kill but mostly injure the enemy. That changed the coming decades, particularly from wiki :
 
 
"As a result of Marshall's work, modern military training was modified to attempt to override this instinct, by:
using man-shaped targets instead of bullseye targets in marksmanship practice practicing and drilling how soldiers would actually fight dispersing responsibility for the killing throughout the group displacing responsibility for the killing onto an authority figure, i.e., the commanding officer and the military hierarchy (see the Milgram experiment) By the time of the United States involvement in the Vietnam War, says Grossman, 90 % of U.S. soldiers would fire their weapons at other people.
He also says the act of killing is psychologically traumatic for the killer, even more so than constant danger or witnessing the death of others.
Grossman further argues that violence in television, movies and video games contributes to real-life violence by a similar process of training and desensitization."
I know the brutality and hate of this conflict may have surpassed any training needed to reach those levels and not sure if those videos represent the general rule but there is something in this war that I haven't seen before. From that video with the russian drone dropping a grenade to an injured Ukranian pleading for his life to the close Call of duty action trench clearing videos I find it disturbing to see perfect killing machines, or find that people from both sides enjoy the video clips with techno and dance music.
I mean, how normal is that? 
 
 
 

Ironically the most expansionist feature of China was kickstarted from western companies/goverments , mostly US, that transfered all their hardware there to cut the costs and make some more free cash. That started to turn them into the behemoth we are all depended upon and in case of a war this will kickback mercilessly against all of us. Their military expansionism is an infant in comparison. When was the last time China army went to war? Started a war even? I can't remember.    

I'm far, faaar from that. I'm quite modest. But sometimes this board has the exact opposite world view. A fairytelish one if we remind ourselves how many times we make LOTR comparisons here drawing a distinct line between the enlighted of this world (West ) vs the orcs, russians, chinese whatever. 
It's a mentality heading for a total clash of the two worlds, maybe I'm naive enough thinking we can prevent it. 
 

I'm far, faaar from that. I'm quite modest. But sometimes this board has the exact opposite world view. A fairytelish one if we remind ourselves how many times we make LOTR comparisons here drawing a distinct line between the enlighted of this world (West ) vs the orcs, russians, chinese whatever. 
It's a mentality heading for a total clash of the two worlds, maybe I'm naive enough thinking we can prevent it. 
 

Nothing is enforced by law of course...US wont supress different cultures like China does perhaps, but in the end its the same thing but less violent. Simply because of the sheer volume of material we are exposed to. Is it everything really attractive though or we are used to it? For example Pamela Anderson buttocks and Pamela herself admitted to be to a certain degree "fabricated" to be sold as a product.  I find an old Polish or other european town more attractive than skyscrapers for instance.( And more natural looking women:)) But I admit we are going off topic.
We might miss the age of US hegemony, but there has to be a day in the future where people wont have always to look to uncle Sam for their guarantee of freedom. And perhaps gain much more trust and respect on their own existance and ability to coexist and be democratic. 

Wait, didn't t you know that China has over 750 military bases all across the globe and is enforcing chinese language, chinese currency, chinese culture and chinese weapons everywhere?
But it's too difficult to write in chinese so we all continue in english here.