Holien

Nice on topic for the thread!!! 
Stir the pot...🙄

https://www.cnet.com/news/trump-says-revolutionary-war-troops-took-over-airports-and-a-meme-takes-off/
Military History is not his strong suit...

and that supports the Seth Rich conspiracy how?  A quick search notes neither of those links even mentions Seth nor makes any suggestion he was involved.  Sorry you are still in the alt right conspiracy fold...which considering it's Russian leanings does not surprise me but it does sadden me.  I can accept having a political bent towards being skeptical of the west, but being essentially a mouthpiece for alt right conspiracies on this forum that generally benefit Russia.. yeah that is a bummer.  No it doesn't show open mindedness at all.  which was where this started.  You haven't been able to defend the whole journalism thing comment or the US being the most lethal country ever nor probably a dozen other items you have put out there as established fact.  You change subject, make references to proof that ends up not being anything at all and generally drive a smoke screen instead of being able to argue facts.  The US is certainly guilty of a lot of bad s**t. As someone who has actually done time opposing those policies I do have a leg to stand on and an ability to be objective of when my country is being f**ked up.  However none of that excuses Russian behavior or validates it.  Russian stands on it's own to be evaluated for it's actions no different than the US.  Not excused for everything with "but what about your western..."  No we do not systematically kill our journalists other than on Twitter.  It is NOT all equal.  Unlike what Putin says Liberalism (meaning democracy) is NOT dead.

So close! But still that bit of denial.   Don’t worry though son you are making progress!  Pretty soon you’ll be able to look at it without trying to qualify your response by pointing at something else, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. 😝
in the meantime we can try some practice work. 
Statement 1 - The us invasion of Iraq was a poorly thought out, mis guided and disastrous attempt to impose nation building philosophy completely ignoring all the hard won lessons from previous experiences and based on a series of intentional lies put forward by the White House .
statement 2 Russian actions in Eastern Europe in particular are ill disguised ventures to undermine democratic forces to protect the hegemony of the Russian state frequently flaunting all international laws and sovereignty of the target nations  
We will review next week and check your progress. 

When we say "little green men" we are referring to the propaganda lie that Country A is not invading Country B because those solders clearly are not ours because they don't have our flags on their shoulders. It is a short hand way of referring to the lies that Putin's Government told during the invasion of Crimea and Easter Ukraine.
The action in Kosovo that you are trying to create an equivalency for is not at all the same. No one lied about what was happening it was done all above board and based on information and events that happened during a long civil war.
The action in the Ukraine was done under the cloak of lies and fake information, trumped up propaganda and with "plausible deniability". The fact that the Putin Government and a handful here still deny that the Russians invaded the Ukraine doesn't make it any less true.
There is no equivalence between these two events.

looking to get the thread closed or you want to see more vids?

Oh I am well aware that many Russians believe that NATO is expansionist and planning to attack them. But that feeling of persecution does not make it true. NATO did not and does not pursue an expansionist posture. The fact that countries in eastern Europe who used to be under the thumb of the USSR continue to feel threatened by the Russian government is not NATO's doing it is the Russian government's. The further fact that the Russian government has been using State controlled media to tell the Russian people that NATO and the west is some how against them is also a big propaganda campaign.
Just because someone fears something does not inherently mean it is dangerous. If the Russian government were to act responsibly and fairly in dealings with its neighbours those neighbours would not fear them and there wold be no need to join a defensive alliance like NATO. In fact if we ever get there we would no longer need NATO.

That "agreement" is a perpetuating myth.  Gorbachev himself denies there was actually any agreement, yet that doesn't stop it coming up about NATO encroachment. Big brass bells or not.
As to the US spending money to upgrade Ukrainian ports - let me get this straight, the validation as to the value of these ports is based on the reaction of Russia seizing the Crimea illegally.... isn't that a circular argument? If Russian had not seized the Crimea do you think the US would be spending this money or dispatching units into Poland etc?
As to NATO membership - The UN charter determines that nations have the right to decide their own agreements.  If Eastern European nations feel threatened by Russian aggression and seek to form protective alliances whose fault is that?  Man you guys really bend over backwards trying to find validation for Russia's aggression by pointing at other nations reactions to protect themselves.  I should be used to that on this forum, but it still befuddles me.  I am perfectly happy to argue about the mistakes my country makes strategically and politically (of which there are many to be sure), but the stone wall of defense of mother Russia never being able to be wrong, produce bogus super military hardware that is all about sound bites but is still defended as something that will kill NATO yadayadayada….  Do you guys listen to yourselves and wonder about your objectivity?  Guess not.

Don't be so hard on them.. I'm sure all seven Mac users appreciate that the patch was delayed again to make sure it works also on their machines  
You wouldn't really feel good playing the game knowing that somewhere in the world, a lonely mac user sat quietly whimpering in the shadows, rejected by his gaming community, would you?
For my part, I wouldn't be able to bear it. Solidarity, brothers! Just because a few people choose to play on a widely unsupported gaming platform shouldn't mean that I should enjoy any special privilege just because I bought a Windows PC. All animals are, after all, equal, and the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.
So carry on and show patience, comrade...

If you have been watching the news coverage then you should know why the fly by happened.
😉
For those who don't...
A school kid in Sheffield saw the plane crash. He was in a public park where the plane might have been able to land, but they saw him so avoided it to try and find somewhere else. The kid saw the faces of the men and has blamed himself ever since for the deaths.
That kid stayed in Sheffield and is now an old man and visits the memorial at the crash site everyday talks to the crew and tends the memorial.
A BBC sports presenter lives in Sheffield and walks in the park saw the man doing this and eventually got chatting to him and found out the story.
He mentioned it on BBC news one morning and a social media campaign kicked off to get a fly by on the anniversary. Not just for those men but for all the aircrews that died. The US aircrew stated as much on TV.
A good news story showing how people care about those who died during the war.
This to me was clear from the coverage I watched...

Lets get one thing real.
Germany has a population of 82,000,000 people.
Its one of the top 15 countries in the world. Its not some little 3rd world country.
It should have a standing army not just for a fact that Russia exist. There is many other conflict areas in the world.
As long as the world Leaders will treat each other nice only if someone else can bring death and sorrow to them and their country. 
Germany by all intent should burden its fair share of that responsibility. 
If they don't want to supply an armed force to do that. (they are more than welcome to pay other countries that are enough to amount to their fair share.
How about that for a outlook.
 

I used to be a tabletop gamer.  Recall the first time I fired up CM1, the loading music, throwing Shermans down the road towards occupied positions.  Sensational.  Even dabbled again in tabletop long after that, whatever rules (and there were bloody loads from the more action movie style Flames of War to the 25 tables of Battlefront WWII) the club was playing with scenery that was at best dire compared to even CM1.  Spent lots of $$$, HOURS of time painting just to have ONE reasonable sized Armored Infantry Company with support, then there was the time to set up, and again, play against who (especially as the scourge of 40K and the now defunct Warhammer spread).  
Gave up in the end, settled on CM for all my wargaming fix and happier for it.  What a long way CM has come since then.  For any of the faults folks might find with CM (I still find myself screaming, albeit less now (just luck of the draw) "Cheating AI" when the ONLY guy in my squad that gets taken out is the damn leader and a tank almost instantly spots and whacks my (I thought) perfectly set up and hidden AT ambush) even the worst of the odd anomalies still leaves the game light years ahead of even the best table top options (6 to hit, 3 to save blah blah blah mechanics) plus, outstanding terrain and a TO&E for all the modules that would cost thousands of dollars to collect, paint and store.  Makes me shudder to think.  With the quality of CMFB and CMBS (never thought I'd enjoy modern, though ATGMs still annoy the hell out of me!) I don't even find myself modding these days, well, not AS much.  More than a few times though, being retired, I've fired up a quick game at 10pm only to find the sun peaking through the blinds at 7am, just after the "bloody cheating AI ;)" zapped the FO team, and who gets takes out, yes the bloody observer!!!
Looking forward to the patches.

WJA, all your points are on the mark.
and some here have pointed out a few of them can be somewhat resolved with features presently in the game.
Other items are likely not going to be resolved,  but it does not hurt to point them out. The sad thing is I am sure the designers also know about these short comings along withy some others not mentioned.
We as players can get very critical as to the game needing to represent things correctly as to how it is in real life. I am sure I have done it myself more than a few times over the years. But the truth is, it is a game and it is a computer program with all sorts of compromises in the programming that has been made but to us the user it seems to reflect reality pretty good.
I am just amazed that it does as well as it does. The things we complain about the game is pretty limited compared to all the things the game is trying to portray.
These guys really do try to get it right and we as the consumer needs to be reminded that they have made a huge effort to do just that.
So keep that in mind before you make comments that sound like the effort has not been put into trying to get it to do things as correct as possible.
We the consumer needs to realize there is going to be short comings, just is how it is. So when asking about possible improvements, keeping our tone in a positive manor is important. Because there is limits to what they can do.
Nothing wrong in making suggestions, but acting upset because they are there is not a mature way of seeing it.
 
 

Obviously not for some folks
🙄
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recycling_rates_by_country
We are in effect sh*tting on our own doorstep and the amount of plastic waste polluting our water is staggering.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/06/plastic-fibres-found-tap-water-around-world-study-reveals
But hey ho it is all down to a liberal conspiracy to stop big business making profits and declining living standards, the recent change in leadership in America has not helped...
🙄
As for less collections that is down to reduced tax return due to the world economic crisis that is still hitting the UK public spending purse as tax has not increased and so councils under pressure to make savings while still trying to keep recycling rates up.
Target is to hit 50% by 2020 at 43% we are close but still put a third of our waste in the ground, compared to America 54%...
Back on topic I checked my credit cards, not been compromised, but then I did not buy anything off Battlefront recently... (Not that it is relevant...)
😋

Obviously not for some folks
🙄
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recycling_rates_by_country
We are in effect sh*tting on our own doorstep and the amount of plastic waste polluting our water is staggering.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/06/plastic-fibres-found-tap-water-around-world-study-reveals
But hey ho it is all down to a liberal conspiracy to stop big business making profits and declining living standards, the recent change in leadership in America has not helped...
🙄
As for less collections that is down to reduced tax return due to the world economic crisis that is still hitting the UK public spending purse as tax has not increased and so councils under pressure to make savings while still trying to keep recycling rates up.
Target is to hit 50% by 2020 at 43% we are close but still put a third of our waste in the ground, compared to America 54%...
Back on topic I checked my credit cards, not been compromised, but then I did not buy anything off Battlefront recently... (Not that it is relevant...)
😋

Obviously not for some folks
🙄
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recycling_rates_by_country
We are in effect sh*tting on our own doorstep and the amount of plastic waste polluting our water is staggering.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/06/plastic-fibres-found-tap-water-around-world-study-reveals
But hey ho it is all down to a liberal conspiracy to stop big business making profits and declining living standards, the recent change in leadership in America has not helped...
🙄
As for less collections that is down to reduced tax return due to the world economic crisis that is still hitting the UK public spending purse as tax has not increased and so councils under pressure to make savings while still trying to keep recycling rates up.
Target is to hit 50% by 2020 at 43% we are close but still put a third of our waste in the ground, compared to America 54%...
Back on topic I checked my credit cards, not been compromised, but then I did not buy anything off Battlefront recently... (Not that it is relevant...)
😋

It's called recycling and saving the planet, something that America (and other countries) might want to adopt...
Nothing to do with declining living standards!!!

It's called recycling and saving the planet, something that America (and other countries) might want to adopt...
Nothing to do with declining living standards!!!

It's called recycling and saving the planet, something that America (and other countries) might want to adopt...
Nothing to do with declining living standards!!!

It's called recycling and saving the planet, something that America (and other countries) might want to adopt...
Nothing to do with declining living standards!!!

Ha you assume there are test plans...

It is what it is and I am looking forward to the major patch and then I might find my mojo to play some more, but like others I have had quite some time not playing, waiting for the patch...
I hope SF2 keeps them afloat to do some more in 2019...
Now to get dressed and see if Santa has been here...
Happy Christmas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Let's see what we were discussing?
Ukrainian ships attacked by Russian forces...
Pathetic.....

Haiduk thanks for the continued updates it is very clear what happened and as usual the story of liesis just a media misinformation attempt to put a fig leaf over it.
A pity that Europe is not closer to be able to help stop bullies grabbing terrority.
Hobo I agree it is very clear what Russia is doing and at some point they will go too far.
The small people will suffer for the choices made by dictators.

Haiduk thanks for the continued updates it is very clear what happened and as usual the story of liesis just a media misinformation attempt to put a fig leaf over it.
A pity that Europe is not closer to be able to help stop bullies grabbing terrority.
Hobo I agree it is very clear what Russia is doing and at some point they will go too far.
The small people will suffer for the choices made by dictators.