Mark IV

When Search works at all, the Back button has always taken me back to the original Search results, after viewing one of the choices from the list. I guess I would rather have CM2, if I have to choose, but I was fond of the Search. I would like it to be fixed someday. It really isn't worth it anymore, even though once in a while it turns something up. And for the record, I hate having to use member numbers instead of handles. Phooey.

Geier, you blockhead: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- geier@swipnet.se <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I intend this fine quote to serve as your epitaph, and shall inscribe it in the snow over your grave in blazing yellow. Until you fix it, however, I must defer this pleasure. You are fairly dancing with glee over a lucky shot from a stupid sneaking cowardly cardboard tank on a bad day in a stacked scenario. Well, la-di-da, who hasn't lost a Brit tank or two in an attack! There are plenty more, and even if you kill them all, we are still coming to melt the snow on your grave. I would be considerably more embarassed about losing one of the Fuehrer's to a PIAT that you had to have known was there all along. Now, FIX OR DO SOMEFINK! [ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: Mark IV ]

Less twist would also cause greater muzzle velocity (through reduced friction). Some guns are more accurate with a near-magic combination of more/less stabilization, more/less velocity, and more/less muzzle length. My only point being, that reduced twist in itself is not necessarily an indication of less accuracy. Older rifles and cannon (19th century) usually had greater twist rates, partly because of faster burning powders, and partly because ballistics was an infant science. A big achievement in ballistics by mid-century was controlled burn rates, designed to fully consume the exploding gases in the barrel before the round exited. This resulted in better velocities and accuracy. Once this was achieved, it was recognized that too much twist was counter-productive, as the rifling grooves in the barrel only slowed the exit velocity of the round.

Lorak! The arch-wretch, MrPeng, has neglected to post the gloatage that is rightfully his... thus, I will do it for him, just like I left the damned bread crumbs right up to my MGs so he couldn't miss them: MrPeng: Win. Around 76 points. Mark IV: Robbed, cheated of his birthright, overwhelmed by an endless mass of field gray that blotted out the horizon. Around 24 points. I was Amis. Actually, I still am, but the rest of the bastards must enjoy the honor posthumously. Defending against an Assault; it was a brilliant setup until he blew everything up. It has taken him several years (or so it seems) to beat me, but I was smeared like jam on toast. I have allocated one full Minute of Hate to him out of each day, and this out of a very full schedule, until the matter is avenged. You may now stitch the Asterisk of Shame to my standard in the Hall of Lorak.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Ahhhhh... now we see the elitism inherent within the system.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There is also slave labor, cruelty to animals, point shaving, and indecency to interns. The 'Pool is a somewhat warped mirror of society. Sue us. I used up my limited stock of breathless anticipation on CMBO, which will keep me amused even if The Deuce is two years hence. Also, my experience with software development tells me to take whatever estimate the programmers give me, double it, and add 5 (months, or greater, depending on size of the project). Once you accept this, life is much easier.

[snorting]Could we please can the /serious crap? If I want that I will haunt the Outer Boards, which, in fact, I am.[still snorting] There are people losing wars out here right now, dammit, and not all of them are Australian. "/serious" is a mockery of all my little troops have failed to die for, or HAVE died for in all the wrong places. And facing the wrong way. More to follow, I'm sure.[/scoffing] I've a mind to bring the next one of these up on MBT charges, and there'll be no Seanachai defense slap on the wrist this time around.[/sneering]

That particular "fellow enthusiast" would probably have wanted fireballs flying out of the Wagnertuben, with the ability to penetrate Shermans on the move at 1000m. But his contribution to CM lore is indelible.

And, ta-da, both the 75 and the Stuart did have canister rounds, and they did not have the range setting. "Upon emerging from the muzzle, the pressure of the [steel] balls causes the case to disintegrate and the balls continue their flight in a pattern similar to that of a shotgun." (FM 17-12) And later (specifically for the 37mm), "Canister is very effective against exposed personnel at ranges of less than 200 yards. It is useless at greater ranges. In jungles it can be used to clear foliage on reconnaissance."

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette: US Armor Force Tank Gunnery Manual FM17-12 (1943 iteration) clearly indicates that --- stab or no stab -- firing while on the move should only be conducted in “emergencies”, and only by “expert crews”, and only at “point blank ranges”.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Jeff: Apologies for not having copied the '44 edition for you yet. Before I get into it, I'm wondering if the '43 version has a large sub-section 79 on firing while moving? I probably ought to scan and post the whole thing, but my experience with OCR is not very promising... Anyway, a quick excerpt from the 10 July 44 edition of FM 17-12 (the section begins with descriptions of the coax as the primary weapon to be used while moving): "(4) Use the tank gun against unexpected tank and antitank targets, particularly when moving down roads or over smooth terrain. At 500 yards you have a 50 percent chance of obtaining a hit against a tank on the first round. At ranges over 1000 yards this type of fire is not profitable.... "(6) The gyro-stabilizer is especially valuable in directing fire from landing craft and from amphibious tanks in assaults on beaches.... "b. Crew teamwork....(2) The driver warns the gunner when rough terrain is ahead. When crossing rough terrain, the gunner does not fight the gun (attempting to keep it on the target by spinning the elevation handwheel), but waits until the stabilizer has regained control of the gun and the action has smoothed out. "(3) The stabilizer does not lay the gun. It tends to keep the gun where it has been laid; that is, it eliminates extemely jerky vertical movements caused by the movement of the tank. Even with a stabilizer, the gun does not hold constantly on the target. The gunner watches the swing of the gun through the target and fires as the proper sight setting crosses the target. (4) Laying for deflection is easier when the tank travels at a slight angle to the target instead of head-on." And that's the way it was, on paper at least, in July 1944. There is some more cool stuff, including care and operation of the gyro, and some diagrams for moving targets.

Also, the rotation speed for Australia is incorrect. You give them a case of bad beer, wait an hour and a half, and the sub-continent starts spinning around them. The Thread should be prepared for a startling announcement... a small band of intrepid IViors may shortly succumb to Army Group Peng, earning the dreaded Asterisk of Shame. The poor lads are Amis, defending against an assault of Barbarossa proportions. The key to his success has been to have so many units on the map, that he has been unable to attempt tactics of any kind, as there is no room for them to do anything but march shoulder to shoulder over my positions. Thus removed from his control, their AI has performed creditably by continuing to shoot in my direction. His tanks are coated with Zook-No-More, he purchased 30 turns worth of large artillery, and the Pod Wave has absorbed most of my ammo. Still, I make no excuse, but fight to the last cartridge, and beat on the hulls of his Panzer Armee with tiny digital fists. I could never hate him as much as Geier but I am willing to make an effort.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ntg84: when i used to play that happened a few times, but i can't play because it doesn't work<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's a bit cryptic... is your CM broken? Windows got you down? What is the "it" that doesn't work?

How can this man be drinking this long before noon? He has, of course, hit on something. The Waffenamt was aware of the problem, and had developed the Fahnenwerfer as an advanced solution. The sub-caliber 120mm mortar insert actually launched VL flags to a range of 6km. Imagine the enemy's consternation to find VLs suddenly appearing to the left, right, or even the rear of their original objective! Designs even existed for a V2 modified with the Fahnenwerfer, which could suddenly have placed the VLs for the Allied forces in London! Fortunately, the Red Army overran the development facilities before this fiendish wonder-weapon could be employed. It is certain that they acquired this technology for themselves, and some suspect the 1989 incident that had Russian tanks firing upon the Russian parliament building was a Fahnenwerfer exercise gone horribly awry.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seanachai: Now as some members of this is ill-esteemed body probably know, I have, over the years, been working on a compilation of my essays... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh. I thought this post might be it. But then, I thought that about the last 32, as well. There were a couple of yucks here... thus meriting a two-line post. Of course, war on Australia is a commendable goal in itself. The deeply bored will recall that the Boardies themselves prodded this decomposing hypothesis until it burst, and noxious fumes slew several participants, which is even more commendable. We know that a single Digger could have licked a dozen uberFinns before whatever they call breakfast, but their currency is still cheap jewelry and they remain an example of what could happen to Canadians if it ever thawed up there. At any rate, M. Seanachai, the requisite forces are conscripted and eager to see the map. Given your customary rate of return, I expect we'll be nestled into our foxholes (we are attacking, but the IVtruppen must use the time profitably to keep their edge) by September. Mind the brumbies in the billabong, they bite.

Thus, 42+42=ii.x3~1, though I would simply have rounded it to 2(x-y)18<w. It is amazing how often we have to explain this. Elvis simply threw up his hands altogether... how he swallowed both hands, we'll never know. (rimshot, cymbal)

I don't know how many of you were logging on yesterday afternoon, but the board was down briefly for maintenance. Since the lot of you have the cognitive skills of cave fish, here is what it said: "The forum is temporarily closed for maintenance, and no, it is not the fault of the Peng Thread." Or something, I paraphrase. I think this was a very nice touch. I vote that for the rest of the weekend, we pretend that Matt has hair. All in favor? Ah, carried unanimously. The Madd One will have virtual flowing locks until midnight Sunday PST. Least we can do.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wildman: (snip summary of no-'count white trash)Mark IV is out enjoying life in Californication. Lucky Bastard, I miss that place...In two months I will be forced to move to North Dakota, my sunny disposition will then wither and die.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You got your turn this AM, and if you worked normal hours you'd know that. As for the PRoK, you can have this whole bloody state; I would cheerfully trade it, but not the salary, for Nodak. I have been informed that I will be moving to San Diego before the end of the year; for a ciggie-smoking, whisky-drinking, gun-owning, deer-and-critter hunting slayer and eater of beasts and fishies, this is a virtual death sentence; the last stop between Fresno and perdition. Maybe if I get a second job I can afford a single-wide that isn't right on a fault line, in the path of a brush fire, within arm's reach of a freeway, discovered to have a protected species of rodent living in it, or where the next illegal immigration tunnel comes up. Oh woe, woe, woe is me... from the frying pan into the fire. Just take your stupid panzer division and kill me now. Gotta go... time for my Spanglish lessons. Will work for electricidad.

The cannister, or "beehive" rounds we had for the M60 tank had a timing ring on the shell. For distant troops in the open or light cover, the ring was twisted to set the detonation range with a vernier scale etched on the round. If memory serves, the ideal range was to explode it 75m in front of the enemy. Thus, if the enemy was 300m away, you wanted the round to go off at 225m. However, this round used flechettes, the little arrows that looked like finned finishing nails (nasty things). The round balls in WWII probably had somewhat less scatter and effective range. So this round did more than turn the main gun into a giant shotgun... it allowed you to fire a single round timed to explode in front of the enemy, more or less regardless of range, for optimum coverage of soft targets. I don't know if the WWII equivalents had this feature or not, but I'll be looking.... WP, btw, made for poor smoke screens compared to regular chemical smoke rounds, and they were not its primary purpose. WP was designed for incendiary purposes as has been discussed many times before, unfortunately lost to the ages until the horrid Search engine is fixed. Or somefink.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader: I have slewn Shandorf on the field of battle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is like taking sides in a contest between mad dogs... no need, and a happy ending either way. Congratulations on belling the cat. I hope you have lewn down for a bit after what must have been quite a thrill. This should rate the biggest asterisk since special character sets were introduced to the roll of kaniggets.

Tankbooks should keep you busy for a while.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Fox: Denizens of the pool... (that shandorf fellow really is distasteful isn't he?) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> See? I told you he'd work out. What an utter cad. My Stahlhelm is off to him. This guy makes Geier look like Jane Fonda, though of course Janie has mastered basic Windows concepts by now (save often. reinstall often. buy upgrades often. I mean, how simple can it get?). By the time poor Geier figures it out, Brits will be using Pershings for recon. Assuming they have any crews left. Ahem. 'Long as I've got the mike, let me say that Wildman is a stinking piece of dung, as opposed to my recent, rather rosy, assessment of him as a mere target. If he was going to shoot back he should have said so in the pre-game conference. This violation of trust shall not go unpunished. Seanachai: your apology, if that's what it was, was a flapping headless chicken of a post. I trust your charge found it instructional. The rest of us are in awe, more at the sheer volume of the barrage than at its precision or destructive power. But it seems you have earned a place on the dance card, long overdue, and if the telephone book on the seat of your Kelterwoerterwerferwagen allows you to see over the dashboard long enough to send a setup, it shall be entertained. See you in the woods; this time, you bring the rashers, and I'll bring the Grill.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The ability to hit a target from a moving tank can be explained very simply. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not to be a wise ass, but this actually explains the ability to MISS a target from a moving tank.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dalem: The chicks in Minneapolis are a durn-sight purtier than the chicks here in Ann Arbor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Fool. Drive the hour up to East Lansing. You picked the school where deodorant, leg-shaving, and eating meat are considered capitalist oppression. At MSU, your Visa counts for a lot more than your IQ or GPA, and you will find it the Happy Hunting Ground of legend, at least until YOU get there, as Lindan has wisely observed.

I like the gun on the PzIV, and all other things being equal, would prefer to stand off in a nice hull down and snipe the hell out of Shermans. Every situation is different, but that is the one I strive to create.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Radar: Ahh, but the terrain was at a training center. A scenario game would be 'the real thing', IMHO. Its one thing to pull up TOE and work 'em to get experience on handling your force, but it would be like reading the punch line of a joke before it was told to go through a scenario with no question of what was going to happen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Dunno if you've been reading the whole thread, but: Playing the same scenario that you're about to play against a PBEM opponent (against the AI) IS gamey & very poor etiquette, Playing a similar scenario (QB or setup with similar parameters) against the AI is NOT, because it does not reveal any particulars about the force mix. It only exercises a given force mix in similar conditions to those anticipated in the upcoming scenario. The hypothesis is that this is similar to the training you would receive before facing enemy fire, plus nebulously simulating the scuttlebut and street wisdom you would acquire from being at the front. How long does it take before a Reg 81mm smoke mission in damp weather yields an effective screen, and how long will it last? I think a lieutenant or captain in western Europe might know this; with an assault to time, it is vital information with a very small window of error. Simulating it in an exercise with the AI goes a small way toward intuiting what that RL lieutenant spent months in training and in theater learning, formally and informally. An infantry officer would know after half a day how long it takes a squad to cross bocage, even if he had never seen it before. If I am suddenly required to do that in a PBEM, running a sim against the AI in a QB is legit, and only gives me the same insight that the guy on the ground would have had. I suppose if you are simulating true Day One Green-ness, that too would be a little gamey... But running the actual scenario in question is bad/bad/bad, IMO, because now we're talking time machine- lots of scenarios, and RL tactics, derive their magic from the appearance of more force than there really is. Playing the actual scenario in advance of a PBEM opponent completely destroys this psychological reality, and turns it from chess to checkers.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader: ...worthless git... anal retentive Felix Unger... I can't believe you have the nerve... squarehead... dope... freakazoid... creep.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's a nice effort for you. The problem is that this sounds more like someone who has just LOST a pair, without benefit of anasthesia, than someone who's GOT a pair. You are sputtering, sirrah (again, that eerie similarity to a nascent Shaw... ). Seanachai, you are malfeasant! Your squirelet has failed in the vital matters of bolding, failed to address me as HERR Unger, failed to exhibit the wit or bile of a salted snail, and has challenged above his station, although not many lawn beetle larvae have internet access, to be sure. I'm going to leave the room for a few hours and I trust this matter will be dealt with before I return.