Mark IV

There really are not many gamey things you can do with CMBO compared to many other games. As FFE has noted, it boils down to taking advantage of the mechanics of the game to act in an ahistorical or unrealistic manner. The majority of "gamey" tactics brought up in the last 150 threads on gaminess are just opinions, often wrong, often based on misunderstandings, or just bitterness at having lost a unit or scenario to an unexpected move. Edge-hugging is one of the most obvious. RL doesn't have a quadrilateral boundary unless you are invading the Osaka airport. Running your troops up one edge of the map means they are safe from fire from 180 degrees that wouldn't exist in RL. So, gamey... until you find people thinking it disallows flank attacks of almost any kind, and any unit within 100m is edge-hugging. FWIW, I just had a Sherman bog in reverse, in Damp conditions right next to scattered trees. Even if the reverse "bug" is real, there is no way I am not ever going to reverse an AFV in a PBEM, because the solution would be gamier than the problem. If it is real, then I would say that reversing a platoon of tanks through 200m of snow is gamey, but I think some silly behavior has its own reward. High speed recon was hotly debated and is much ado about nothing. Jeeps and Kubelwagen can be zipped around and through enemy lines for a quick glimpse of the entire enemy position, because they are very difficult to hit and cheap anyway. The argument is that in RL you couldn't get real troops to do that, and the info they would have been able to relay back while doing so wouldn't be nearly as useful as the picture that a CM player gets, thanks to Borg spotting. This is generally the case, though the units will usually be killed. So don't do that. Attacking or spotting with crews of AFVs, ammoless FOs, etc. is another big bugaboo, and they have been tweaked down in capabilities by BTS until this should no longer be an issue. I would let crews defend themselves in a building or woods in an Alamo situation and that's about it. I try to exit them from the board when it is safe to do so. Ahistorical unit selection means cherry-picking favorite units from multiple nationalities in unrealistic mixes. At CM level this would be silly, unless you were modeling a conflict right at the edge of major unit boundaries. Also under this heading would be combining TO&Es that never happened in reality, like all FOs or all AA units, or armies of bazookas. Those are the biggest as I see them, there may be a couple other legitimate ones, and much of the rest are just the sour grapes crowd trying to occupy the VLs on the moral high ground. There are peculiarities in the modeling of certain unit capabilities which have been discussed to death here, but exploiting them won't usually change the outcome of a battle and they are generally somewhat vague anyway. The so-called invulnerability of Sd Kfz 7/1 or 2, the over/under modeling of MGs, and all the other niggles beaten to death here are matters of opinion, necessarily somewhat abstracted, and while touted by their discoverers as articles of religion, really don't affect a damned thing in the conduct of battle. Sound tactics against reasonable adults are the best defense against "gamey" tactics.

Buy it. Do it now. You've already missed a year and a half of fun and games, don't compound the error!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: I noted that young Rommell 22 Long Rifle posted a 3D model of a Mk IV (the short barreled version that OUR Mk IV most closely resembles) in which he stated that it wasn't "Finnished" ... I MANFULLY resisted the temptation, but OH ... the possibilities. Mind you it was a very nice model, I give him that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, I admired that as well, although for reasons that should be obvious refrained from congratulating Mr. 22CB Cap (which you can shoot in your living room, though I'd suggest dragging him outside first). At a bore length of 1800mm (that would be about 5.9 ft.), that 75 L/24 is a fairly apt comparison that I, er, wear manfully. Would that you were similarly "stubbed".

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lawyer: ...poor IV has only read 79 percent of them. Maybe when the Markster finishes that next Sgt. Rock comic, he will pass the magic percentage marker... Read 'em and weap, Boyz. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I read the IV% that matter, and we did so have haunted Stuarts that skeet shot Messerschmidts while blowing up Panthers. I have the documentation. YOU are just jealous because we now have a REAL liar and libeller in our midst, thus cheapening the market for our domestic doctors of jurisprudence. Until Mr. Fenno, if that is his real psuedonym, tires of his latest crusade, we can get bad information and poor advice for FREE. But fear not, he will soon be finnished.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: Picture, if you will, a flattened Goanna on a lonely road with a Berli shaped tire print across its back...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll take the framed, low-numbered limited edition print, please. Please process my Visa or MasterCard. This has been the saddest day of my CM life (the above notwithstanding). Not because I am falsely accused. Not because my tenuous case was further damaged by the rash defense of Seanachai, who graciously urged that my sentence be commuted to burning (touching, that). Not because the bile I have lavished on the whole wet planet has been misconstrued as being targeted at two of its least significant subspecies, whom I had actually thought I had somewhat overlooked and had earmarked for a right good flogging one of these days. No, the saddest moment was finding that I shared the docket with MrSpkr. This is like finding your own wax effigy in Mme. Tussaud's next to Bozo the Clown's. It is one thing to be tarred with the same brush, but the depths of ignominy to be publicly disemvowelled, nay, defennostrated, in the company of this horribly common man. I hang his head in shame.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fenno: In these same thread we often see nicks like Mrspkr and Mark[a number], who more than often totally uncalled for start Finn or Aussie bashing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ??? I remember bashing MrSpkr plenty, but that's simply expected of decent folk... Finns, maybe a sardonic aside... but Aussies??? I think I've overlooked them entirely. To what on earth are you referring? Unless... well, Goanna did win the war single-handedly, damn his eyes.

Puppchen on the Web: This is from the Fort Garry Horse site in Manitoba: I assume it was from the West front since this was supposedly captured by Canadians (no reason to think it wasn't, but no evidence either way). This one in Militaerhistorisches Dresen is a little shot up, but includes a round. Modelers would like the one at Eklyps, also available with Kettenrad. [ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Mark IV ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr in the CMBO Glorifying War thread: I wonder if his girlfriend thinks my kids are glorifying obesity when they play Candyland?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LMAO. 6 months, 1300 posts, and you've finally said something funny. I'm almost glad we didn't kill you when we should have. Private Wackov (with a soft "v") is back, which in itself is not important enough to constitute a real annoyance. However, the dekefentlian style IS, although to that other minor individual's minor credit he has at least mastered spell check. Perhaps this one is dangerous, packing that "derigible", the small double-barreled balloon favored by riverboat gamblers. The notion of a morass crashing down on anything is a metaphor so badly mixed that even Iskander would send it back to the bar. His insluted intelligence had best quit leaning on the lamppost of verbosity, wipe off the mascara of rhetoric, and devote itself to simple concepts like respect for one's betters, a remarkably broad spectrum of plant and animal life in this case.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lawyer: I too shave in the shower. It's much more efficient and easier on the back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Why not just let your back grow? And sneak about on all fours grunting and pawing the earth? It's gotta be killing you playing the biped game every day, man. Be yourself, find your inner quad... it's almost hunting season, too.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xavier: Is there such a space between the turret and the hull of the T34-85 ?(I'm talking about the high turret ring).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Couple good profiles here: Russian Battlefield

I think that a lot of excitement is being generated on the Outer Board with the recent posts there. I refer, of course, to the candidacy of young Cauldron for BBS Dunce and Designated Dolt. Smegmarsh, Fledmarshall, GAZ, and a host of lesser and forgotten whiners have met their match this time, laddies. I apologize if this seems petty, as I intended it to be mean-spirited and vicious, but I'm under a lot of pressure here at work. Ciao for now.

What I like is the UNIT DESIGNATION numbers on the interface! And the catalog of weapons for the selected squad! Ochen Khorosho! Spasibo!

Perhaps it was 80% of each book written, as opposed to 80% of all the books. At any rate, with the invention of the ballpoint most of us have lost interest in puchpens altogether.

Here is what furryshark was referring to: I guess it beats raising hundminen. Too bad Bobcats have the wrong road wheels... hmmm... [ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Mark IV ]

Panzerjager Hs139 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1814. PANZERJAGER! Pegg, Creek, Bentley & Tullis. From the publisher who brought us JV-44: The Galland Circus, here is a comprehensive and detailed work on the Henschel HS 129 aircraft. It was conceived and bulit as a ground attack aircraft to support the infantry and combat tanks. As Soviet tanks became better protected, the HS 129 was continually upgunned to remain successful. This detailed work covers operational history, camouflage, markings, details of all units equipped with the HS 129, loss tables, armaments details, and first-person accounts of pilots who flew it in combat. This title includes hundreds of previously unpublished photos from private collections of veterans. HB/LF, 400+ photos, 15 color plates, 336p. Was $80.00, price reduced to $ 75 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader: We all know it needs to be called CM2: the GPW!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Shouldn't that be the GPWAF if we're going to be formal?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jdmorse: [QB]Since I feel like plunging the sharpened stake of madness into my brain[QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Enticement enough, say no more. Me Germans. I am sick of playing Allies to prove to people I am not some kind of Axiophile. Please gawd just give me the 'schrecks back, and a long 75 with just a couple of rounds, man, and I'll be fine, just a couple of hits, and then I'm done for good. Really. I don't need this game, I just want it. I can quit any time, really I can, it's just a social thing. And some 20 mike-mikes, OH JEEZ THAT'S GOOD, AND SOME HMG42s!!!. S'cool man, I'll just crash here on the porch. Send it up.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hannibal: I think moron was a little harsh lol<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Indeed it would have been. There should have been enough hedging "ifs" and "woulds", predicated upon your hypothetical "If...", to give the benefit of doubt, however. Let's just lol it off, like the Albigensians of old, those crazy nuts. Soon the Finns and Aussies will be waking up and then you'll really be sorry you brought up winning the war single-handedly.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hannibal: IF only read Steven Ambrose you would think there was no eastern front <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And you would be a moron, for thinking that you gain a perspective on a world-wide conflict by reading a single historian, particularly one who set out to portray the experiences of the US fighting man, as opposed to ALL fighting men, or Soviet fighting men. I assume you also purchased the King James Bible for insight into Hindu teachings, and the Chilton’s on the Toyota Camry to fix your Chevy truck. Trashing Ambrose is a favorite pastime here, but he did not set out to document the whole of WWII, and did not claim to. He is admittedly a "pop" historian and does not claim to write comprehensive histories. He does make some factual errors, possibly many, not just regarding the famous 88-equipped Panther, but regarding the proper operation of a flintlock rifle as well (you were aware he has written books on other subjects, right?}. What he DID do was to write battle history from the point of view of the "average" GI, based on the famous 1300 interviews. If you are hoping to learn how to field strip a breech block, or to grasp the evolution of Soviet offensive doctrine, or you are interested in markings of Yugoslav aircraft, then you are a moron for having purchased the wrong book. If you are interested in the impressions of American GIs about their role in WWII after the fact, and observations such as: "One of my favorite lines in that regard is from an Army ranger who told me, You know, people think that veterans are always going to be better than rookies, in war as in sports, but a veteran infantryman is a terrified infantryman. Experienced soldiers will take a lot fewer casualties, but for an assault over an open beach, guys who hadn't seen before what a bullet does to the human body were better than guys who had", then you may not be a moron, and may have purchased the right book. Now, the "general public" will never be as smart as you. The most important things in their lives all devolve from WWII minutiae, not the fact that the US won and fascism lost, about 6 wars ago, and the fools don't even know it. Just as we can share a wink and a grin when the unwashed discuss wireless communications, without so much as a nod to Edwin Howard Armstrong, as though their lives didn't hinge on heterodyning. Which of us illuminati doesn't chuckle at the public misperception that all Albigensians were mystics? Or the notion that the Macedonian phalanx was the antidote to Persian combined arms practices, and the relevance of the soft iron pilum head? If you had read Weinberg's "A World At Arms" like many, many people did (well, at least they bought it), then you would get a comprehensive overview of, surprise, a WORLD at arms. If you buy a book called "Eisenhower's Boys..." or "Americans at War" or one which is misleadingly subtitled "The U.S. Army from the Normandy Beaches to Bulge to the Surrender of Germany, June 7, 1944-May 7, 1945" in hopes of a balanced summary of all of WWII, then you will no doubt find the Brazilian contribution slighted, and very little on the evolution of the excellent Italian SMGs. And you would be a moron.

Sorry von schradling, but in MBT terms you are lower than a dust mite (despite your admirable humiliation of Goanna). I could raise an objection to this one too, as it is started by a resignee, a Brit, and a confessed Mac user, but in the interests of BBS stability, I graciously acquiesce. Now, I think we were discussing the overall useless wankdom of chrisl and I liked where it was going....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: ... but to receive the ULTIMATE responsibility of CessPool Drain Commissioner ... you do me too much honor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've actually reserved the Ultimate Honor for our absent colleague, M. Geier. Not everyone can aspire to the position of Cesspool Bayonet Practice Dummy but in my heart I know he's the man for the job. Nonetheless, this position comes with a lot of responsibility; please use it wisely. Drains corrupt, and absolute drainage corrupts completely. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>[/QB]I've not received a SINGLE surrender and your meaningless posts here are pretty much ... meaningless, even MORE meaningless than Seanachai's post which was even more meaningless than his posts USUALLY are and that's saying something.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks to the renegade pronoun with an unclear antecedent, this paragraph is deprived of meaning, except that it is clear that it is about meaninglessness. It could only be directed to ME if you have failed to open the last turn I sent. Happy Birthday. There will be a reading from the Book, chapter and verse to be noted by the sexton, on Eeyore's Birthday. I think a broken balloon and an empty honey jar is the very most we could do for our Heaven-Born Lord High Drain Commissioner and Most Exalted Justicar. In honor of the event, I pronounce today... Sunday.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Sniffed by Joe Shaw: I haven't been confirmed as Justicar of the Peng Challenge Thread... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For god's sake, appoint this man to something. I've seen county drain commissioners campaign with more... WAIT!!! That's IT! JoXia as Drain Commmissioner!!! How fitting... Mr. Aitken: How stupid of me not to realize that the metric system is not derived from Base 14, or 15 for purists. I had attempted to work in a tedious concept from English literature (the fortnight, which has baffled freshman English classes this side of the pond for the last 100 years or so) with my customary nod to those of Metric descent. As usual, it is hurled back in my teeth. Swine. On the subject of Army Men, who are all Cesspool kaniggets in my book, you have not even scratched the surface, my friends. I have sent divisions to injection molded hell, from GI Joes to Airfix scale (scale: M-80 to ladyfinger). I have built entire tanks which I was too lazy to paint (the guilt stays with me, so I don't download mods) with the turrets constructed around smuggled 3" firecrackers. After a week, tops, of admiration, it was isopropyl and the match... I still have the scars from flying molten plastic. But that's when it still meant something to be a Plastic Army Man Commander... these punks today... (mutter, mutter).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tero: I agree with BTS's general gag order. BUT.... The Peng tread is due for a renewal soon. Who ever said it has to be the not-so-serious BS venting tread every time ? The names of the tread have always been a joke but if it was named something like "A Peng challenge that changed the world" and there was a silent agreement that this time we dispence with the bull and stick to more serious matters while keeping it unlocked by being polite for a change perhaps BTS will let it live.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When threatened by the irrational, lunacy is the best defense. While denizens of Pengdom are hardly normal, the existence of the thread itself is the very essence of normalcy. Being true to ourselves is our greatest victory. As an anarcho-syndicalist commune, the Peng Thread will resist any effort to impose order, or meaning, of any kind, on its proceedings. We will continue to provide a beacon on the BBS for the impious and irreverent, and we will continue to demonstrate by example what the rest of you can expect when you have devolved sufficiently. The Peng Thread defiantly remains itself, at the extreme front of normalcy.

Welcome back, you insufferable puddle-sniffers. I though I would have to ease back into hating you all, but it's really like riding a bicycle. Lord, how you suck. I was on the road the last couple days and one or two of you (Shaw?) may have suffered turn-wise, due to shuttling files between the laptop and the big rig. Not as much as those who got their turns, I can assure you. Normal operations will now be resumed, to the detriment of all. Soon the Great Trek to the southland begins. I will be moving in a couple weeks (fortnight, to you metrics), and there will further disruptions of normal service. Rest assured, you will all be in my spleen and colon. No wonder I'm crabby. Now excuse me, while I go to congratulate tero on his suggestion.

Car bomb at State Department DENIED. About 10,000 people in each tower at this time of day, but west tower had fair amount of time to evac, many got out.