Mark IV

Jeez I thought you guys were kidding. One plane from Bostan is supposedly still unaccounted for... roof of Pentagon has collapsed (supposedly a smaller commuter airliner)... The actual footage of the plane hitting the second tower of WTC is the most stupefying thing I have ever seen... absolutely sick.

German and Russian TDs were designed with the ability to stand and slug it out with tanks... US TDs were not. The doctrine for their employment was for an aggressive commitment in force against massed enemy armor, as FM 18-5 put it: "Tank destroyer units are employed offensively in large numbers, by rapid maneuver, and by surprise. Offensive action allows the entire strength of a tank destroyer unit to be engaged against the enemy. For individual tank destroyers, offensive action consists of vigorous reconnaissance to locate hostile tanks and movement to advantageous positions from which to attack the enemy by fire. Tank destroyers avoid “slugging matches” with tanks, but compensate for their light armor and difficulty of concealment by exploitation of their mobility and superior observation. "Rapidity of maneuver enables tank destroyer units to strike at vital objectives, fight on selected terrain, exercise pressure from varied and unexpected directions, and bring massed fire to bear in decisive areas. Tank destroyer units obtain results from rapidity and flexibility of action rather than by building up strongly organized positions. Tank destroyers depend for protection not on armor, but on speed and the use of cover and terrain. When maneuvering in the presence of the enemy they habitually move at the greatest speed permitted by the terrain." One problem was that conditions for their doctrinal employment almost never occurred in ETO. Commanders who did not understand the TD "theory" but desperately needed fire support, and general dispersal through the theater, were partly to blame, but TDs could not simply be rushed en masse through the choked American road network as a fire brigade most of the time. There were relatively few mass German armor assaults for them to be employed against. The mobility was wasted, when what the crews needed was more armor and more gun... like their German and Soviet TD counterparts. The open turret and thin armor were negated by the combined arms threat of WWII reality... mortars, artillery, and grenades made all that "superior observation" into a two-edged sword. And when the TDs finally had tank targets to destroy, they had to tiptoe around for flank shots because they couldn't risk a single hit from the enemy. The German and Soviet designs were built as sloped, turretless, slow, head-on sluggers and those were the TD designs which proved themselves in their intended role: as destroyers of tanks. The American TDs made great contributions to the US effort by virtue of being around with cannons and motors, but only secondarily as destroyers of tanks. They seem to have mostly served as under-armored infantry support tanks and SP artillery, not so much because they were mis-employed, but because they were another answer to a question no one was asking.

Seanachai you lump: Upon review of the last turn, I first tender my compliments to your Soviet-trained FO. Such callous disregard for human life should not go unrecognized; calling the arty directly on your own positions is simply brilliant. However, you have fallen directly into my little trap, because for every 10 men of mine you kill, you kill at least one of your own!!! HAHAHAHAhohohohohee, hee... errggh.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Original raving by panzerwerfer42: I hate JC Penney, as do all of my coworkers... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you work here?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lawyer: Months go by, and Mark IV fails to respond to my witty posts mentioning him by name.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A Lawyer with a sensitive side. How droll. I have no desire to see anyone's deke fentling, either live, or on some grainey internet connection. I DID make the only worthwhile suggestion in your thread, however; actually, two of them, as I will soon gather the southern Kalifornienens for a similar CMfest. There, Foobar and I shall plot your demise. Remember that I have a Certain Picture of you. I have very graciously refrained from posting it, as you may have several years worth of unproductivity to go, and I do not wish to jeopardize your overemployability. You leave me little choice. This means... intercoastal war.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrPeng: MrFour I sent you a bloody turn days ago... So, MrFour there you have it irrefutable PROOF that I sent you the turn several days ago. ingrate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am very grateful for the thought. However, you did not send a turn, or on a more conciliatory plane, failed to send it correctly. I have now, thanks to the magic of sequential numbering, re-sent the last turn in the series, that being #07, launched with ceremony and aplomb at 6:18AM September 6th, 2001, a turn that will be heard around the world, a turn that shall forever live in infamy, and a turn that thus far is UNANSWERED. Knowing that you would prefer a bloody and violent death to any sort of default, I render this service cheerfully, with my customary patience and goodwill. I know it is a futile gesture, but I too wish you had fleas or head lice. Cordially, IV

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrPeng: Ok Monthly backup of the AS/400.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Gee, that wasn't even existential angst. More like the thoughts of a fat, lazy dog locked up in the laundry room while the master's away. Good thing dogs don't know about gas lines and delay fuzes or there'd be a lot more empty lots. Today is Ingratitude Day. I would like you all to doff your caps for a moment and think about an ingrate in YOUR life. Lawyer serves a subpeenie on me for generously bumping his stupid thread. The poor sap has to advertise FREE BEER to get anyone to play with him, and even then, a sign that would gather a crowd in downtown Bagdad was sinking fast. Out of pity I post to at least keep it on the front page, and what do I get? Joe Shaw offers to tape "Band of Brothers" for some no-name ex-deadmarshian, but forgets poor old Mark IV, whose posts and turns have brought him so much pleasure over the years. Here's a turn of the post for you, Mr. Xia. Ma Chivvy rolled over and my woman run off and I ain't got no HBO neither. Ain't got cable. Dawg et it and died. Then there's the GF, but we shan't bore you with the details, usual stuff, you all know the drill. The United States Government, who ought to name a goddam aircraft carrier after me or at least let me steer one for awhile, and instead used my undeducted a$$ to buy black helicopters to see if I'm smoking unfiltered cigarettes. Don't even get me started on Seanachai. He's not grateful. He's killed most of a rifle company and has started on the next. So I sit with my beer and some stinky cheese and wonder where in the hell my turn from MrPeng is, with his Crack Uberpeople, who eat .303 slugs and poop HE, in a choreographed massacre from Goanna, the most grating of the ungrateful. Please, remember to think about an ingrate in YOUR life.

Alas, poor CMplayer, neither grog nor 'pooler, but compelled to post nonetheless by some inner torment. As any schoolchild knows, almost all production PzIs were produced with Maybach engines, and the ZF Zaphon FG 31 transmission. The PzI chassis was the basis for the sig 33 and other production combat vehicles and utility vehicles, including the well known 4.7cm PaK (t)(Sfl) auf Pz Kw I Ausf B. The (t), of course, indicates that the vehicle was completely manufactured of tungsten*. The PzII chassis was a completely different animal*. And often unsung by the "Cat"-lovers and would-be uberpanzer groupies, there were over 1400 of these bad boys in the attack on Poland, over 500 against France, and they were still in service when Barbarossa rolled around. *<FONT size="1">You Idiot.</Font>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ellros: I miss Pippu<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That is because of his very low profile. Try using area fire until you can get close enough for grenades. Today, we are Pods!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elvis: Mark4 there is no beer cam in Washington because it is not a real city and seems have have very few "bar" bars.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The laptop thing would work... Incidentally, the last 3 times you have shamelessly begged beers at O'Neals, I have shown up (somewhat late, but within the referenced parameters) and YOU weren't there. Damn lightweight. Also, their camera was so dark that it might have been a Sunoco station, for all we could see. So, just for you... 03, 04, 05, 06...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Admiral Keth: ...how many CM players in the general region of So. California? Anyone in the area interested in a similar CMUG-type get-together?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Gimme a couple months, and you're on. Foobar lurks in those parts; there are others. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Blurted by MrSpkr: Fresno, Michigan, what's the difference? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> About 30. 30 years, 30 degrees, 30 IQ points, etc., unless we count Detroit. Enough Fresno-bashing (how 'bout those 'Dogs? Die, Wisconsin), there's a Lawyer in this thread. Always take the juiciest target of opportunity, or the greatest threat target first.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: For a guy born and raised in Fresno...CHOP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is the most perfectly insulting thing ever said to or about me. Even a Braille reader of the BBS would know that I am from Michigan. I have been a political prisoner in Fresburg for almost 8 years now, and my long servitude is almost at an end. The only sensory perception that could be better than the sight of Fresno growing smaller in my rearview mirror would be the soft thump of your slanderous cadaver under my tires at the same time. Thank you for your support.

Crowd: Ahhh-hh-hh.

For those of us who can't make it (that being about 3000 miles out of the way on my homeward commute), note that 8-digit grid coordinates can be established from these directions. Finally, a use for all those unused TRPs I accumulated in our last game. Pity it's not one of those beercam places. Why not have someone technically adept (your daughter?) set up a laptop and one of those cheapie cameras?

Hiram, I wish there was something we could do. Call or stop by when you're out here. . . . . . . On a somewhat lighter note, I would recommend the Captain's thread (at least the title post) on the "Sweet Stench" as MUST reading for every cesspooler. Hilarious.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: I can identify MarkIV as the man on the grassy knoll.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And it wasn't any Eye-talian Carcano, either... Wherefore does someone whose future involves mysterious cargoes of 18-year-old girls wish the earth hurled into the sun? Or is this like Meeks' secret mission to the South Pole? It appears that very soon now, I will be moving... Schloss IV takes shape dimly in the swirling mists of southern Kalifornia... oh wait, those are loan origination fees. I was just wondering what kind of idiots would lend ME that kind of money. Then I thought, who do I know that's a mortgage banker... oh, THAT kind of idiot. If this deal happens, there will be major distractions and delays. Some of you must accelerate the pace of dying-a-lot. In fact, ALL of you would do well to heed this. Why not step on something poisonous right now?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dalem: Y'know, just once I'd like to see a scenario briefing that says "Our scouts indicate that Satan himself is waiting for you. He has a King Tiger in each hand, poops 150mm rocket barrages as an afterthought, and deals Hot Death to any that cross his path. The impressive army of giant transforming robots that was to be your only hope is still in the shop, but you have to get that crossroads for us anyhow. You're f*cked. HQ SENDS"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That made me laugh. I hate you for that. Unfortunately, I'm a little booked up at the moment, but I'll be watching.... Seanachai, if you've time to post the entire Minneapolis telephone directory (and a re-run at that, though droll the first time around), might I prevail upon you for A FRICKIN TURN? There's a good fellow. I hate the thought of my Pickett's charge frozen in mid air between their last step, and the ground. Comrade Xia has already leveled accusations of perfidy at me, with the return setup! No one has even hit GO yet! The Terror reigns unabated... but he'll be purging more than the faithful before this is over....

A guachi drive-by! How's that FAQ? The only downside to the board these days, really, is the near-demise of the Search function. After one of the great crashes it never really came back... just sits in the corner shaking and sobbing... we need Matt to slap the helmet off it and send it back to the lines.

Same here. Lorak, strike that Geierisch nonsense. Or start a category for "Wins in Waiting". We're gonna win the old-fahioned way, by blowing the bahstid up. Hell, I waited 3 months to start back up with Pawbroon, and found that the victory had mellowed in the cask, with a nut-like flavor, overtones of snails, and a fiery finish.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I would tend to doubt that the 5.56 round would be any better than a WW II rifle at any range, or capable of firing farther than a .303, 30-06 or 7.92 round.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Any of those "old" WWII rounds would have greater retained energy at long range than 5.56mm. The 7.62mm NATO is really a nice choice for an MG or a hunting rifle, but 7.62 Soviet is darned near ideal for an all-battlefield infantry cartridge. With interchangeability as a parameter, I think we missed the boat here. Back to the point: with darned near guaranteed tank lethality on first shots at 2500+m, modern war takes a much bigger map as the norm than CMBO. And no model exists for the attack helo, with aircraft capabilities but the ability to remain in the battle area and use terrain.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: Oh I don't LIKE anyone here, you're all swine and know it. The difference is that I OFFICIALLY don't like Mark IV. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (So, he's afraid I'll challenge him, is he? Then that's JUST what I'll DO! Har, harhar, har...) JoeXia, you pompous, megalomaniacal, paranoid, verbose, swinish, bag of inquisitorial methane, I'm gonna light you up like a National Park in the dry season. And I'm a gonna do it with menschie's little bowl of pus. If'n it's bad enough for Peng, it's bad enough for you. Sure as mine name's... well... it's a sure thing, dammit. Watch your mail, ye scallywag. Your OFFICIAL enemy.

MrPeng: Your schreck is in the mail. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: Very well Mark IV, you leave me no choice, I OFFICIALLY don't like you! I'm sorry but you brought it on yourself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> [serious]Oh dear![/serious] [dire]Just what do you plan[/dire] [sneering]to DO ABOUT IT?[/sneering] [flecks of saliva!!!]I HOPE THIS FINDS YOU WELL!!![/FLECKS OF SALIVA!!!] I really would like to use the menschy thing on someone. How do you load this thing, anyway... BANG... oops.

You want niche? I continue to be obsessed with the Russo-Japanese War. Waiting for someone to model it specifically (AoR did throw in a scenario or two, bless their hearts) will take me well into this century, I fear. I would also be very interested in Korea and will pre-order now. Some first-hand Allied observers did describe the German troops in the Bulge as using "human wave" tactics, but I doubt they had any Ostfront experience. Arab-Israeli Wars (my all-time favorite AH title) could be the same platform for 1960-1980 western Europe combat, and the whole Fulda Gap/REFORGER scenario. I agree about models not being in place, yet, for a fully functional modern construction set. I think more has changed than computers... the effective ranges of modern tanks, physics of ATGMs, and especially the whole helicopter paradigm just aren't there yet. Thermal sights and IR ("ir" is the Russian word for "aim here", isn't it?). And the 2000+ battlefield needs a whole slug of EW abstractions to work. Pre-WWII, there are the damned horses. Breech-loading vs. muzzle-loading (and vulnerability of crews, modeling skipping cannon balls, smoke obscuration). Observation balloons. Dispatch riders (the antithesis of the Borg). Edged and pointy weapons, for gawd's sake. Pikes! Poison gas! Gas masks! The Construction Set is premature, but a lofty goal. It would free up BTS for the Ultimate Goal: ...ultimately, strategic-global-Risk level conflict subdivided into France 1940-scale maps, divided into Corps level sims, ultimately resolved at the CM scale... no doubt, some will want FPS resolution of those... a military gaming empire with BTSoft at the pinnacle of an integrated gaming empire! Mwahahahaha! I need to lie down.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MikeT: Well the only way to keep all happy is some sort of CM wargame construction set. But then BTS would loose sales.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Now you're talkin'. I don't think they would lose sales, because there is a limit to what they can produce. When this engine starts to wear, still 3-4 years out IMO, they can move on and release the Construction Set based on this one. Is there anyone here who wouldn't buy it? Still, they have their own vision and plan which encompasses the entire ETO with the Med and the Early War on the books. I like that idea, because I would really like to get my hands on the Early War. There is a substantial PTO/Korea lobby with built-in dollars when they're ready to have a go, but I think the construction set could address this without a major dilution of their efforts. While I agree that a post-WWII/modern version could sell BIG, it sounds like a completely separate undertaking. The beginning of that project would be the time to release the roll-your-own version of this one, to keep us off their backs for a while.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: Goanna is still mad about me BEATING HIM LIKE A BASS DRUM<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Finally, after 1694 posts, 3 billion words, and untold gigahertz of squandered bandwidth, a reason for you to have been born. Mission accomplished. You may now expire at your earliest convenience.