Mark IV

The logic could and should be written 8 inches high across your back window backwards so you can read it in your bloody rear-view mirror: The guns are already zeroed on a TRP. That's the "registration" bit. The FO just tells 'em when to hit it, makes sure the smoke is coming from the right area, and then brews up some coffee and kicks back.

I thought smoke duration also depended on weather conditions? Didn't damp and snow have shorter duration? Personally, I think smoke is a necessary evil. I would WAY rather be dumping HE on my hated enemy's head. But if you have to attack across the open, it makes nice temporary cover, though I couldn't imagine dedicating an entire FO to smoke only. It also wouldn't be quite as nice if defenders could shoot suppressive fire through smoke... I don't know how often smoke rounds were used on a large scale in WWII. Smoke generators were used for large ops like river crossings instead of (or together with) arty smoke, and are way more effective if the wind cooperates.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dalem: Am I the only one that gets bugged about comments like "we all know the stock CM graphics sucked" or "the fires are terrible" or "I puked when I saw the original trees"? Opinions are fine, but such indiscriminate and stark criticism seems really insulting to the folks (mainly Kwazydog, right?) who busted ass to give us the game graphics in the first place. Maybe I'm just overly pissy today.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> dalem, you are a shameless, sycophantic, CM slut. "I think the stock graphics are great, but if they come out with new ones I'll buy a new machine for them." OMG. Bow low to this wretched low-tech game, then just kneel to the Upgrade Goddess like a good little acolyte and hand over your pitiful offering of thousand-dollar bills? You're exactly the sort of swine that has been holding back development of CM, while at the same time causing the real grogs with their Etch-a-sketches to be left in the dust. The trumpet has sounded, and you have failed to muster! No wonder your dog has no ears. Read the Board and Obey! We must see every corpuscle of blasted flesh and we'll buy the math co-processors to run 'em!

Your point is so obvious it is really... unnecessary. The problem is that you have posted an opinion, and some people have disagreed with it. Therefore, you have repeatedly replied that they must be "missing your point" or that your point is somehow hard to get across. It isn't. We got it. We disagree with it (some of us, anyway). You are not being flamed by anyone that I can see. Kingfish responded with very nice logic. The broader the base, the more they sell. Are you getting his point? And it you click the thoughtfully provided links to previous discussions, you will find that BTS has ALREADY raised the standard for CM2, etc., on into the future. In other words, they too have discerned the trend of PC platforms getting faster and better over time. So this is really a non-issue. Are you understanding that? Back to your original post: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It seems to me that people on this message board have below average PCs at home. I for one would like to see more graphical detail in the game. The thing is I'm afraid BTS is maybe trying to hard to make the game playable for people with ancient PC<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>, etc., etc. Some people are more put off by the tone, than the sense of what you are saying. No one has come out AGAINST more graphical detail in the game. And your fears about what you think BTS is trying to do have been shown to be groundless. Can you understand this? My machine has the same specs, exactly, as yours. I bought it mostly because of CM, although my PII-350 ran it fine. I trust BTS to move with the times, as they have stated they would, without alienating the gamers in the mid-range. They are not going to wait until the last grognard registers his new graphics card in their database before upgrading the engine, as they have already stated. If you are trying to be persuasive, a good rule is to consider your words from a neutral perspective, to make sure you aren't unintentionally insulting anyone, or to adopt the condescending stance that anyone who disagrees must be incapable of understanding your logic. You know what I mean?

PC Gamer also had this to say in the "Scoops" section: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Combat Mission 2: The best World War II turn-based strategy game ever gets a sequel facelift. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So I think a chill pill may be in order here. I didn't find your list of "top 50", but was this by vote? By sales (guess not, as they wouldn't know BTS numbers)? Editor's choice? In any case, it's quite remarkable that CM made the list at all. How many of the other games are internet sales only, with no budget for print ads? How many of the others are in slick, holographic packaging, propped in end cap displays in the world's busiest retail chains? It is heartening to see sheer quality take its place amid all that merchandising. And I would go easy on PC Gamer... there are few more dedicated Combat Missionaries than me, but we don't do ourselves or BTS any favors by slamming those who choose to recognize our little niche. What you are really seeing is a reflection of the game-buying public's demographics and taste, and I am long past attributing the fall of the west to tastes and fads in PC games, or pop music for that matter. A dollar spent on Beavis and Butthead isn't a dollar taken away from CM.

PC Gamer also had this to say in the "Scoops" section: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Combat Mission 2: The best World War II turn-based strategy game ever gets a sequel facelift. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So I think a chill pill may be in order here. I didn't find your list of "top 50", but was this by vote? By sales (guess not, as they wouldn't know BTS numbers)? Editor's choice? In any case, it's quite remarkable that CM made the list at all. How many of the other games are internet sales only, with no budget for print ads? How many of the others are in slick, holographic packaging, propped in end cap displays in the world's busiest retail chains? It is heartening to see sheer quality take its place amid all that merchandising. And I would go easy on PC Gamer... there are few more dedicated Combat Missionaries than me, but we don't do ourselves or BTS any favors by slamming those who choose to recognize our little niche. What you are really seeing is a reflection of the game-buying public's demographics and taste, and I am long past attributing the fall of the west to tastes and fads in PC games, or pop music for that matter. A dollar spent on Beavis and Butthead isn't a dollar taken away from CM.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RCHRD: If you were under fire by M-16's, wouldn't you realise it sooner than later? Don't M-16's sound different than AK's?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> M16s have no particular allegiance. Charlie used scads of them. Any rifle pointed your way is enemy, regardless of country of origin.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: [QB]... lost all his armor to crappy Mk IVs (and we all know what a useless sod he is). [QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well. Those would be the crappy MkIVs that rolled over France, chased the British back to England, ruled the desert, and rolled the Russkis back to Moscow, wouldn't they? Competently commanded, the PzIV holds its own in CMBO, in a pre-war design, no less. The 8000 or so produced seem to have caused the 49,000 Shermans produced some fits. I think there were some T-34s in the war as well. But if I had reported to the Navy, I would be fuzzy on tank stuff, too.

The real issue, getting back to the original question, is not just whether you can see a guy at night at 40-100m, but whether you can tell which side he is on. I was in the peacetime army as a tanker (buttoned, we couldn't see s**t in the daytime). I gun and bow-hunted a lot. I have spent a lot of time in the woods in the dark, mistaking the wind and the ground squirrels in the leaves for Mr. Deer, mistaking twigs for antlers, losing and finding buddies, tracking blood trails by flashlight, etc. There are many kinds of night, and full moon on snow is a lot different than inside-a-hairy-goat dark, dark. I have been around "hunters" taking "sound shots" in the dark (that's when bowhunting became really attractive to me). Dark as in pine forest, no moon, no snow, couldn't see 40m with a million candlepower searchlight. If, instead of a deer, I was expecting enemy soldiers, I would definitely regard a shot in my direction under those conditions as hostile. What would a jumpy squad do? One of the funniest things I saw in the army was using passive night vision to scope a Pershing battery, and watching an MP (probably going to take a pee) wander into the triple-strand. I knew they were MPs because that's who was guarding the Pershings. Otherwise, he was just a dim green sucker in a world of hurt. Hated driving jeep with those damn things, they had no depth perception.... The historical record is full of friendly fire incidents in no, or failing, light conditions. Stonewall Jackson springs to mind. Many of these incidents are glossed over, and for obvious reasons don't make the unit histories or published memoirs.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Who the feck are you, oh brilliantly named one? I don't know why I bother explaining this to someone from Fresno... Omnidestructivism is a synthesis of the finest tactical traditions of German Blitzkrieg and Yankee Juggernaut warmaking... War 101: Shoot EVERYTHING YOU GOT at him ALL AT ONCE, and he WILL die (a lot)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (Edited to correct formatting errors caused by doltish typewriter formatting) Hmm, possibly an idiot savant. Were it not a Peng Thread flash-in-the-pan, it would know that I am not from Fresno, only held here against my will, and soon to be gone from it forever. No matter where I go, the sight of Fresno growing smaller in my rear-view mirror will remain one of my fondest memories. It would also know that I have been here almost since the very Elders themselves, that I have seen mountains form and fall to dust again, and seen suns burn themselves to ash, and seen fish take their first hesitant steps ashore, and that his entire Peng Thread existence has been but a highly dissatisfactory eyeblink, to me. The imperfect but dim grasp of omnidestructivist doctrine (what part of ALL does it find incomprehensible?), leavened by an inability to understand the helping editorial hand proffered it, indicates a dull sort of animal cunning beneath the restraining straps and muzzle. Let's poke it with sticks and see what it does.

As you can see, the boringly-named one is a devotee of my omnidestructivist school of tactics, the motto and entire credo of which is "Kill Them All". On the other hand, we have one of those typewriter-formatting dolts who still thinks he must hit the Return key at the end of each line of type, for fear that his sentences will begin protruding out the vents on the side of his monitor. Since no one unable to grasp the notion of "text wrap" could possibly comprehend the subtle complexities of omnidestructivism, I can only conclude that he is an idiot. He was probably attracted by the patina of glory associated with this radical and innovative tactical style. Next he'll be saying that infantry can be coaxed to use their panzerfausts, that horses add nothing to the front line experience, and that paratroops who jump into active battlefields have a life expectancy of 0 seconds (i.e., that of horses). Since it appears he won't simply go away, we'll be watching this one.

Nothing to see here. Anyway, I just had an Archer kill 2 Hetzers and a StuG III plus 6 infantry casualties. Secret: Hide behind trees or hill or both, reverse, shoot, move, repeat as needed. Sometimes it's wise to reverse into a slightly different location to maintain surprise. [ 08-19-2001: Message edited by: Mark IV ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mace: I'm not saying you're old, but did the heat generated from all the candles result in the forest fires now troubling North America?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You know it's a slow newsweek when we all hear about the fires again. Wildfires (like hurricanes and winters) happen every year, about the same time, in roughly the same places. This is because the west is made of very dry grass and wood. It wasn't a big deal until we built suburbs in the same places. Now, the ex-flower children who pollute our media consider this particular aspect of nature undesirable, and want the government to Do Something. I wonder who put all those fires out in the 60,000 years prior to our brave New Age? So yes, I am proud to have helped cause this annual spectacle, in much the same way that Joe Shaw's posts contribute to the annual hurricane season. The good news is that I am still alive. The bad news is... well, some swords cut both ways, eh? Anyway, age is beyond the scope of CM and is only abstracted. [ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: Mark IV ]

I would like to jump on the bandwagon of Clown Rage here. In the library near where I went to school, they had sad clown statues, my favorite of which featured a two-foot tall bronze clown, with two brass arrows in his breast. I used to wonder, "what was the range to this clown? What kind of broadheads were used? Did they have to track him very far?" and so forth, as I was very young. Now I am just glad he is dead. chrisl was probably repeatedly denied entrance to this same library for wearing nothing under his coat. I have only three Cesspool games going at the moment, and one is with Seanachai, so obviously there are only two updates, one of which is that Wildman sucks Stuart mufflers. For a medium scenario we have killed a great many tanks already. This is mitigated by the fact that I own everything worth owning, except a minor VL which is currently targeted by every gun in the western hemisphere. Sadly, the gamey slut has been issued a company of Panthers as reinforcements (replacements would be more apt), and they'll probably start blowing things up. So much for sportsmanship. Geier is a Goanna-class foreign scenario-stacking bastard and that is about the worst thing I can say about anyone. He is starting to die more, but not a-lot-enough yet. We are working on this. At least one local pestilence, r. leeticus infectus, is beating his sodden head against the firewall I graciously offer the 'Pool from time to time. If he wasn't dying there he'd be posting here, so you can thank me later. There is another foreigner, and some unwanted pet that Moriarty let go in my neighborhood, too witless to find its way back. I'm killing them and I only mention it in order to bore you. Thanks for missing my birthday, you thoughtless bastards; it made it very special for me.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Priest: Actually talking to many Allied survivors of the war and how the outcome was very much different than what was thought possible even 3 years previous one might say that the "angels" did publicly announce their allegiance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Odd, they would side with Bolsheviks, then, the only avowed atheist nation in the war. Perhaps Valkyries were fascist angels; Milton would have loved it (he has the good angels, and the fallen, firing cannon at each other in Paradise Lost... now THAT'S gamey). The last great panzer leader of the twentieth century is paradoxically noted for the civilian blood on his hands as a consequence of military expediency... another Ariel... the "Lion of God". Angels should just stay the hell out of tactical matters, and politics, altogether.

Aerial = from an airplane. Ariel = an angel's name, y'know, winged spirits, harps, etc., but no cameras, and no publicly-declared allegiance during WWII. They're sort of the ultimate abstraction....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Priest: Morning Ariel recon photos just taken hours before the attack.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't think reconnaissance by angels, however effective, adds much to realism....

I will fight until it is truly hopeless. Often, this is to the last cartridge, but sometimes it is so obvious that my fighting force is destroyed and the other fellow's so intact that I feel I may be wasting his time. I have found that olandt's advice is often correct. If you are in bad shape, so is the other guy, but you can only see your own damage. When your opponent was surprised at your surrender, it tells me that you "left money on the table", because he was hurting so badly that he did not realize that you felt that YOU were in trouble. I have once or twice indicated to a PBEM opponent that I do not feel a real life fighting force would continue under the circumstances, but that I am willing to do so, so long as the little digital unfortunates will respond to orders. This gives the opponent the option of enjoying the fruits of victory (unrestrained massacre), or terminating and going on to something more rewarding. I have never minded presiding over a disaster if the other fellow has earned it... such turns are easily and quickly processed. I am not one to feel the digital pain of my little soldiers, once their viability is destroyed. There is also a certain talent to disengaging and retreating off the board with as much of one's force intact as possible, and I will certainly indulge an opponent who wants to work this angle of CM... but I personally am not wired this way. There is a short list of opponents who have proven so vexatious that I will continue killing them, or trying to, even if it is from directly beneath their hulls with my dying breath. Goanna and Geier spring to mind, and on occasion The Hated Pod, the latter more out of habit as he is the traditional enemy, rather like dogs and cats, Germans and French, or perhaps more aptly, birds and worms. I have never hesitated to accept a proffered surrender at any point in a game. If the guy surrenders before I think he ought to have, I count it as a legitimate victory, and quietly (or not, depending) question his intelligence and disposition afterward. Actually, the best commanders would strive for victory with a minimum of casualties anyway. Better an early surrender, than those miserable gutless cowards who disappear without a word or a trace 'cause things went badly, and lack the decency to terminate the affair with honor. I will watch my last tank burn and my last crew ridden down and sabered without flinching, but I would never walk away from a game without a final resolution.

The appropriate countermeasure is to pile your other tank crews into a Kubelwagen and charge the 'zook firing pistols wildly. Normally I would post this to the tips and tricks department, but it sounds like you need help. We are here for you.

In "Panzertruppen", Jentz has some transcripts of British radio traffic during major tank engagements in the desert (one of the best parts, IMO). They are ID'ing German tanks as Mk III or IV, and types and locations of guns, at 3000 yards, while shooting at one another. The desert is not all billiard table, but it is compared to Vietnam. An armor Major I used to drive (Jeep) for in Germany was hard of hearing, from an RPG which penetrated his turret in Nam. They were providing close support for infantry in vegetation when he got wacked, and he said his legs and butt were sprayed with metal. No details (presumably it was an M48 and the round was from RPG7, but who knows?). He also blamed the incident for his hemmorhoids. I don't know what the relationship may have been and there are things you just don't ask. There are many anecdotes in Jentz and elsewhere of Russian crews in T34s (not just KVs) withstanding terrific punishment, while fighting on until dug out by hand with explosives and incendiaries. A lot of it comes down to the crew and its leadership.

I don't know anything about that graphics card, but the system specs sound quite adequate. What resolution are you running? What do you mean it locks up "after the first move sequence"? While the movie is playing, or while you're plotting the next move? The demo has been solid for almost everyone (the patched release version is even better), so there is a probably a simple explanation somewhere....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Geier: Battle with Mark IV: After lots and lots of turns he has taken one minor VL (out of three hundred and fifty two) and is leaving a trail of fine upstanding digital dead young men and burning digital tanks as he presses onward. He has cunningly shed his flank protection (i.e he let me kill it) and is racing straight ahead towards the Promised Open Ground.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Errata and Addenda: This "scenario" features Brits advancing up a bocage-lined road into a fortified village (about 50m from the starting line), allowing the same tactical flexibility afforded to cattle in a slaughterhouse chute. The starting setup zone is in a corner, just in case you thought you'd practice some manoooooverism in the generous allocation of 30 or so sq/m initial setup area. The alleged "flank protection" in the preceeding pack of lies, distortions, and half-truths were merely squads seeking a place to stand. They were not "fine upstanding digital dead young men" because they were Brits, and also because it is hard to upstand when you're dead. Their grandfathers oppressed my grandfathers and their grandchildren will have green hair and safety pins in their cheeks. The survivors, a sullen and angry lot, are now chasing the Swede-led lemmingtruppen toward the nearest neutral country and the "trail" of burning tanks is shrinking, relative to the PUDDLE of scrap metal rapidly developing on the lutefisk side of the map. We cannot tell if the Germans are "upstanding young men", because all we can see are their soiled behinds, but we doubt it, as they let themselves be led into this mess by a member of the genetic cul-de-sac of the Nordic race, and are retreating not-quite-as-quickly as the pursuing .303 tokens of our esteem. There was also a nice, if graphic, demonstration of why one should not drive a tank up to the front door of an enemy-occupied house unescorted. Q: what does every Brit leg unit carry with it? A: rhymes with "Fiat". Other than that, I think you summed it up rather nicely.

The KV was the exception, rather than the rule, on the WWII battlefield. Most tanks could not take anywhere near that kind of punishment, and would burn and/or explode. The Germans (and I suspect others) adopted a "shoot til it burns" policy with apparently abandoned tanks, anyway, to prevent recovery by the enemy. Immobilized, un-burning tanks are bullet magnets, and very large bullets at that. Some turrets and virtually all hulls had escape hatches, and the crews were eager to use them once the tank was no longer viable.

An answer that often works for "why choose a ___ ?" is, because that's what they used in WWII. This would apply to 75mm arty, HMGs, LMGs, half-tracks, jeep MGs, and the many other subjects of "why bother with ___" questions. If you are trying to accurately simulate a historical battle, or even a realistic but generic QB, it's often illuminating to use the same weapon systems available to the historical "players". Some weapons, like Wespe and flak, were designed to fulfill other roles, but are pressed of necessity into a CM-scale battle. Some are around because armies had tons of inventory and shipped it to the theater to fill real or perceived needs. RL commanders didn't get to push their cart down the aisles of the CM supermarket prior to an engagement, and select uberweapons of choice. They had to make do with what was at hand. One of the attractions of playing the better historical scenarios is "being stuck" with unappealling weapon systems, just like the original commanders, and having to make them work for you in an emergency.

Yeah, but... The author is Heinz Günther Guderian, son of THE Guderian, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>he entered the German Army as an officer cadet on the eve of the Third Reich on 1 April 1933. Promoted to Second Lieutenant exactly two years later, he served as a platoon leader, battalion and regimental adjutant, and company commander in Panzer Regiments 1 and 35. He saw his first combat during the invasion of Poland, and was wounded twice during the campaign in Western Europe in 1940. Graduating from the General Staff College in 1942, he served in a variety of staff assignments in armored units until being assigned as the Operations Officer for the 116th Panzer Division in May 1942. Although again wounded in action, he held that position until the end of the War... General Guderian’s decorations include the Iron Cross Second and First Classes, the Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross, the Wounds Badge in Silver, and the Federal German Grand Cross of the Order of Merit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm sure he doesn't know as much about German units in WWII as many of our contributors, but I think he may have some insights of worth. I doubt that the blurb was parsed exactly correctly, but I'm not sure the author penned it. And in any case, the offensive snippet was preceeded by <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Organized in France in March, 1944 from elements of the 16th Panzer-Grenadier Division and the 179th Reserve Panzer Division <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>, so it is technically correct in the strictest sense, eh? And isn't that what we would expect from a Guderian?