Mark IV

Q: Was the zook team in command radius? Two squads shooting at you would theoretically be 16 guys or so, of whom at least two have the most feared MG in the world, and most of the rest only high-powered rifles. I wonder what 16 supersonic near misses whipping by sounds like. Maybe no big deal, but maybe your guy didn't have a lot of warrior chromosomes in his geneology. As someone said, it's a dice roll, just like RL draftees. The real travesty is that maybe only one of the guys in the two man team panicked, but thanks to abstractions they both booked. I think a tweak is in order, to split the team and have the brave guy with the bag of rockets hold his ground.

First, most WWII German tactical radios were AM, not FM. In fact, most tactical military radios in WWII were AM. FM was a relatively new technology and more expensive to produce. Here is more than you probably want to know: Army Radio In modern entertainment radio, the AM band is at a much lower frequency than the FM band. The frequency range (or band) is more important to signal propagation than the modulation technology. Low frequency signals tend to bounce and skip, and can use the atmosphere itself to achieve great range. Higher frequency signals have more penetrating ability of LOS obstructions, up to a point, but less propensity to skip. In the VHF range, they are more or less limited to the horizon. If your guy is on the other side of a hill, you have a better chance of reaching with low-frequency signals, as the signal will be reflected to him (hopefully) from multiple directions. FM will usually have a clearer signal until it is gone, and then it is completely gone. AM will tend to degrade as the signal weakens, and may flicker in and out as the signal reaches the limits of its power, as described by Babra.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rex_Bellator: Thanks Bleneim & Danyzn - von Lettow was the man. I'd definitely like to know more about the campaign if anyone can recommend a source. I might even get the correct war then <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "The Great War in Africa", Brian Farwell, W. W. Norton & Company, 1986. There is also a Penguin edition in Canada. One very good commander was Yama****a Tomoyuki, whose conquest of Singapore was brilliant, and whose subsequent career confirmed that of a great and principled military man. General Homma Masaharu must receive some notice as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thor: ... I stand by my assertion that he let down his command. As someone noted in an earlier post, warnings of possible hostilities had gone out to military commanders in November. Kimmel had no CAP, had not alerted the air observation posts, and had no units on standby in case of immediate mobilization. Sure he was scapegoated but rightly so. A military base is a military base and Pearl Harbor's defenses weren't poor, they were not existent. You're right, though, that this does not qualify him for a list of the war's worst.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Probably not the right venue for this, but: Warnings of possible hostilities had indeed gone out in November. You can read some of their text in an earlier post here. Here is some more, from November 24: "surprise aggressive movements in any direction, including attack on the Philippines or Guam is a possibility." And from the 27th: "The number and equipment of Japanese troops and the organization of naval task forces indicate an amphibious expedition against either the Philippines, Thai or Kra peninsula or possibly Borneo." There was no serious consideration of an attack on PH at this stage, but there was plenty of concern about sabotage. An attack had been discussed as a hypothesis for years, but was not the Navy's prognosis at any level. Kimmel might have responded more aggressively, but showed no more peacetime ennui than the rest of the American military establishment at the time. The battleships were in the harbor for deployment to the Marshall Islands, in accordance with the battle plan. Instructions from Washington were "not to raise an alarm". PBYs were flying reconnaissance in the most likely direction of attack. The whole air patrol controversy is BS- the plan for moving against the Marshalls required a substantial number of the PBYs to be held in reserve for this force. Those available were flying regular shifts. The Navy board of inquiry concluded that omission of the recon flights to the north "was not due to oversight or neglect", but "the result of a military decision, reached after much deliberation and consultation..." and exonerated Kimmel of this charge. There were over 30 US planes in the air over Hawaii at the time of the attack, including those from the Lexington. There was just too much Pacific for the number of planes available. Destroyers and minesweepers were patrolling beyond the sub nets. The first shots of Pearl Harbor were fired by these patrols against Japanese mini-subs, btw, an hour before the strike force showed up. The first sighting was dismissed as a false alarm and not reported, the second resulted in the sinking of the Japanese sub. Armed sentries were patrolling the parked Army planes, which were moved to the center of the fields to prevent sabotage, the only threat for which preparations were deemed necessary. I know the street wisdom on PH, but it rarely bears scrutiny. Almost every statement above is false. That PH's were "not existent" is absurd. And there is no such thing as "rightful" scapegoating, which is by definition an injustice, causing someone to bear the blame of others. Call me revisionist, but the primary responsibility for the attack on Pearl Harbor is Japan's. It was their idea, their plan, their airplanes. They planned an audacious raid that no one believed they had the technology or courage to pull off, and executed it with great skill. They intended it as a surprise and it was. I wish we could deal with lost battles without inventing whole new mythologies to justify them.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username: It only made the germans (known bad losers) only fight harder.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Combined with the insistence on unconditional surrender, this appears to be true. Almost every account I have read by Germans cite these as the reasons they kept fighting when all was clearly lost. The 20 Juli plot was immediately known in the west, and that might have been the time to shift propaganda gears. Of course, feelings were running a little high at the time. thor: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Admiral King let down his command at Pearl Harbor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I suspect you mean Admiral Kimmel? Rear-Admiral King was appointed as his replacement, after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Whether Kimmel really let his down his command is highly debatable, probably untrue IMO, and certainly does not qualify him for any list of "war's worst". Rear-Admiral King certainly thought Kimmel was "sold down the river" (his words) as a scapegoat for Washington's responsibility and embarassment.

SMG/pistol ammo is much smaller and lighter than rifle ammo. If the SMG is your primary weapon, you are going to have a bunch of rounds stuffed in relatively bulky spare magazines, but boxed ammo can be all over the place ('course you'll have to stop and restuff mags now and then, and I don't know how CM could take this into account). Rifle ammo packaged in 5-8 round mags or stripper clips weighs more and takes up a lot more room. It would also be difficult to justify much micro-modeling of small arms ammo load-outs when we have unlimited supplies of much heavier and bulkier grenades. A defender should usually have all the ammo he wants, in prepared positions, regardless of weapon type. Of course, this is where the scenario designer comes in. We are only talking 30 minutes or so of action in most CM games. There are many instances of defenders running low or completely out of ammo in WWII, but usually only in siege-type combat over several hours or days. As a tanker, I shot expert with pistol and SMG (grease gun), but only had to qualify with the M16. I am an adequate rifle shot. I have fired thousands of rounds of WWII military ammo in Mauser and Enfield (no M1 in my arsenal, but I have shot them plenty, too). I cannot say that I could hit an enemy at 200m over open sights with these weapons every time, should I be fortunate enough to find one so inclined. I would hit him more often than not. From a bench rest I could put 'em all in paper and that's about it. With the M16 I probably could hit the guy every time, but CM doesn't have those. WWII rounds and sights weren't as good, and flinch factor is almost nonexistent with the M16. I have shot oodles of deer with a variety of rifles, at ranges from 10-160m, and pistol under 40m, and missed some, too. Frankly I don't think an SMG should be allowed to engage much over 100m. The bullet would retain some ability to incapacitate a human over that range, but hitting would be virtually impossible, and who would expose himself to aimed rifle fire with no effective response? This would be a better solution than limiting the ammo.

Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov Over 70 million sold! This guy's pedestal goes into the pantheon next to John Browning and John Garand. Sorry you find the 7.62 x 39mm unappealing. What the cartridge lacks in body styling, it makes up for with sheer functionality. You won't find them in CM2, though, as the AK47 and this cartridge did not enter service until 1947. The correct measure of bullet energy is foot-pounds, or the metric equivalent. The BAR would have considerably greater energy than the intermediate rounds (as used by StG44 and AK47), with the difference more pronounced at longer ranges. This would matter against vehicles or buildings, but far less against soft targets. At 300m or even 500m, all these bullets are devastating and incapacitating against humans. Anything beyond incapacitation is overkill.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: The number of men who died from SMGs is probably about the same as those who died from bayonets wounds. An interesting anecdote in Charlie Martin's book BATTLE DIARY - he took a burst full in the chest at close range at the end of the war and lived. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't think that first statement is supportable, but would be interested in any sources. Deaths aren't relevant to the discussion really, only incapacitation. Re: the second, did Mr. Martin continue fighting for the next 30-60 minutes after he took the "SMG burst" in the chest? Slappy: I guess there aren't many Belgians posting here, but the GP35 (or Browning Hi-Power) was a Browning design put into production by Fabrique National. They were manufactured in Canada during the war by John Inglis & Co., but I know a lot of these were for China. The Germans also coveted this weapon, and since they owned the FN factory for a few years, immediately began cranking them out with their own proof stamps for issue to Heer and police. [brag]I have one.[/brag] It outshoots the P38, though it lacks the handy double-action feature.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader: Marky Mark what the "Organ" is referring to is...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am dismayed that you have chosen to address me personally. However: The unit in question has sent me some abomination of a setup. The turn is entitled "Stalin-vs-Panzer001". Therefore, it is confused and stupid, whereas YOU are merely wrong. This time. Now excuse me while I have my Inbox scrubbed with Lysol.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott B: Have to throw in a vote for Weinberg's A World At Arms. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I got this on clearance for $5 (five dollars). Couldn't believe it. It probably is not what he is looking for, because it encompasses the entire world conflict, but it was pretty good and a helluva deal. Personally, I think Shirer's "Rise and Fall" is very dated, biased, and factually suspect. It does have the flavor of an eyewitness to the times, but I wouldn't consider it particularly scholarly. It was my introduction to the subject and I have read it all, probably many times, and it's better than nothing, but you can do better with 40 more years of research and archives to work with.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The_Capt: Correct me if I am wrong but I can't remember if BTS actually went this far in modeling small arms.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It was discussed, with their participation, at length. SMGs were already reduced once, in efficacy at longer ranges, IIRC. The effectiveness of small arms is abstracted to a degree, but is reflected in the FP (that's how this discussion originated in the first place). Most GIs were not gun aficionados or ballisticians, and got their training on the M1. For many Americans, it was the first "real" gun they had ever fired. Since it was a reliable, powerful weapon and they were tasked with keeping track of it, they tended to stick with it. Most of the time they were facing K98 Mausers, and there would be no reason for the average GI to believe his M1 was inferior in any way. On the other hand, a German commander whose unit was equipped primarily with SMGs would be an idiot to engage in a long range shoot out with bolt-action .303s, or M1s. Given the task at hand, it would be obvious that his advantage lay in a close range battle, preferably in cover. Part of what is abstracted in the FP is suppression, and SMGs do this very well at short range. MP40s, fired in 3 round bursts as they were designed to do, suppress well. They also burn ammo at a higher rate. They are faster handling in heavy cover and house to house conditions, though the "real" rifles would have better penetration (even this is of more value for suppression than lethality, however, because you rarely hit what you don't see). Under 100m, anyone hit with the 9mm is probably incapacitated for the duration of a CM battle. I think this is abstracted pretty well.

The stalin unit seems highly confused. I am not Panzer anybody. I did not order it to play Panzer anybody. The concept is Stalin's Organ vs. Mr. Johnson until both are dead, or at least mute. At this point I am liking Mr. Johnson's chances very much indeed, due to someone's inability to grasp simple angliskii. The rune thing seems perfect, and may cause their monitors to explode, an added benefit.

Brothers and sister (hastily noting that I am a cesspudlian Only Child): Others bring problems, I offer a solution. For some time, we have suffered the infliction of one Stalin's Organ, the gelding, unable to distinguish between a manly pair and a lone, invalid appendage, bereft of wit, value, or sufficient sense to carve his own guts out and flop all wiggly on the floor until he noisily expires. Now someone's left the door open again (I blame Shaw) and in barges another dullard appendophile. These two must be forced to play one another. The loser must... die. The winner shall be pelted with bricks until it does what nature demands... dies. It doesn't get any fairer than that. The lowest forms of life in the pool must feed, and these particular algae can only provide amusement for their betters (i.e., the rest of us, and almost anyone else) and sustenance for the SSNs, not that any normal person would care, by flogging one another remorselessly into silence. I see no down-side to this proposal and move it and their immediate execution. All opposed, please lay your head(s) on the block. Ah, the ayes have it. A scenario, please.... [ 06-29-2001: Message edited by: Mark IV ]

Fresno, political prisoner, People's Republik of Kalifornia. Originally Detroit, MI, (Royal Oak), and not someone who really minded winter, but growing accustomed to the lack of it. Often drove south for beer with flavor (to Windsor, Ontario, that is) and a girlfriend or two. Will work for electricity. Wouldn't a Detroit River crossing make a nice scenario? Belle Isle's been shelled before... bloody Brits/frogs/injuns... we've had the TRPs for 300 years, dammit.

If platoon HQ has LOS to the target, AND command lines to the mortars, they can target with indirect fire (even though their own target lines will show no LOS). Target the area with the mortars anyway, and the target line will "stick" if the HQ's LOS is valid. Of course I don't remember if this worked in the demo, but it does in the game. The off-board arty spotter/FO is the juiciest target in the game, btw. I would rather kill those bastards than a battalion HQ. The AI also has a tendency to rush them forward a bit much. Take advantage while you can....

I would like a tank, please. Preferably cardboard, with outstanding optics and an agonizingly slow turret, just to make it fair. My goal is to die within 3 turns of my appearance and with help from you all, I know I can achieve this dream.

I am pleased to see the thread taking a positive turn, and above all, irritating Aitken. Despite the generally constructive nature of the more sophisticated members’ contributions, I do need to note that almost all of you are utterly, and perhaps deliberately, stupid. So many of you were close to the Truth. Scotch is the only whiskey, but Martinis must have vermouth, as mercury must have its gold. An onion now and then is a naughty pleasure, but then it’s a Gibson, isn’t it? And the lemon peel isn’t MY cup of chai, Mr. Paneled Gentleman’s Club, but you were on the right track. Any foo knows that Sikorsky's Siberian PotatoJuice (sic) is what snickering locals actually poured for Mr. Bond, by the way. I have never heard of a use for angostura bitters that did not involve repelling snails from the garden, but perhaps I’ll try that thing once, so that I can hate the SSN with more than the routine motivation. Aquavit ice-cold is palatable, in the same sense that the flesh of all inedible creatures is good, smoked. Regular ouzo is the third or fourth worst thing I have ever imbibed, which includes virtually everything, including Croat–home-brewed slivovitz from my old black-market buddies in the FRG. As usual, the only one to be near right, without being offensive (in itself offensive, given the environs) is Moriarty. Bombay is the right selection for mixed drinks, and acceptable neat. The Sapphire is a little perfumey, though. And for grapefruit mixes, Gilbey’s or plain rubbing alcohol works just as well. But then I suppose most of you don’t fish, or at least aren’t serious about it. At any rate he lapsed into the bourbon heresy and may be dismissed without further consideration. Really, the only useful advice came from the Lawyer, but it can’t be accepted without being charged for it. So most of you lot will be cutting up limes with scissors until your fingers are down to the third knuckle. Then it’s a stiff milk and water and off to bed to bleed to death in your sleep. PS: The discerning only drink their malt liquors from the “Motor City Coaster”, otherwise known as a brown paper bag, to hide their shame, cheapness, and most of all their largesse, from their neighbors.

It's about time to get things back on track, so that means it's time to talk about... Gin Now, I know many of you associate me with scotch, and the untimely and horrible deaths of your troops. And rightfully so (unless you are Goanna, in which case I hate you). But the hideous Fresno summer is upon us, and summer means gin, my friends. Gin and tonic especially, but if we ever get our hands on the real (i.e., Dutch) thing, chilled and neat. I like the Bokma Jongke or however they scribble it. Scotch is nearly always the right thing to do, but gin helps give life that multi-hued aura that makes each day more difficult to recall. Cool and refreshing, gin when mixed with various contaminants also rushes through the capillaries a little more slowly, and is a better choice for driving (you DON'T mix your scotch, now, DO YOU!). Say you're on the way to church Sunday and you don't want the tell-tale plume of Scotland in your bonnet: Gin and Grapefruit juice! It's not only a stealth drink, it's good for you, and a damned fine breakfast drink for fishing, too. I know that many of my fellow Americans had their first experience with the glory of gin when their parents were out, and they were snarking gulps from the unguarded liquor cabinet, and found this barely used bottle of clear stuff way in the back. Then they either took a sip and recoiled in shock, or pursued the investigation until they were found babbling incoherently and covered with their own dinner. Kudos to the intrepid souls who go on to recognize the encounter with the Sublime that has just passed. The Martini is a ritual not fully understood in our modern age, but let me first explain that NOTHING with vodka (yecchh) in it constitutes a Martini. I do not care what James Bond drank. He carried a PPK too, and if you're the sort who thinks a .380 auto belongs anywhere but in a purse, go ahead and order a "vodka martini". Umbrella with that? ALSO: One of the world's best known alcoholics (obligatory WWII content follows), Mr. Churchill (obligatory content concluded), started this nonsense about waving the vermouth cork over the glass. A Martini is supposed to have vermouth, you ninnies. To the extent that Mr. Churchill even bothered with a glass, he was only attempting to justify his medication, not to relax with fine spirits. Gin was indeed a Dutch thing, if you were too lazy to click the link above, and the word comes from genever. Back when the Dutch were a manly race, they developed the magic formula, which like everything good was stolen by Aitken's ancestors and presented as though it was their own idea. There are German gins, too, but the distillers continue to evade prosecution. All of this brings me to Panzer Leader. I was well ahead of the curve in despising and denouncing him and his soul-mate, the latter of which has subsequently been elevated beyond his station through a loophole in the rules. When I learned to my dismay that he imbibes Captain Morgans Barbecue Starter, I knew that this was entirely justified. However, like most trends, I am now bored with it. Thanks for listening, and why not try a cool refreshing glass of GIN today?

No. Believe it or not, that came up once before, but we all voted it down. Just kidding. It is the most frequently requested feature since the first day of the demo. Check the FAQ thread by russellmz on this page. Maybe in CM2.

c.) Never buy an Ericsson cell phone, nor any of their other products. 42. They wish you thought they were Swedish, but you don't and they're not. Only Finns know how to make cell phones (or arrange for the best-fed little 16 year old slave laborers to make them). Swedes can only make curious tanks based on Tamiya modeling fantasies. L: Geier probably has stock and relatives in this company, which in his case amounts to the same thing. xxi. I will be gone for a couple of days Doing Important Things, without a cell phone. If you did not receive a turn, it's because I hold you in lower esteem than the Others, as though that were possible. It is indirectly related to the consumer report above, meaning I have already expended my normally ample stock of bile on the Party of the Defective Part. MrPeng and/or chrisl suck or are dead or are cheating or have already lost. I think we know where the truth lies. So to speak. Things were beginning to pick up around here, as our intellectual ballast was cut from the wicker. Fortunately, gravity has a way of re-asserting itself. Welcome back, Mr. Shaw. I will keel the rest of you Saturday. A lot. [ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Mark IV ]

Yeah, how about a dust-jacket blurb? I suspect it deals with esoteric aspects of tank-whackage, but a write-up would boost sales. Or, send me a copy, and I'll review it here at no charge.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Kettler: I believe there's a GPO web site as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Some great stuff there. To save others some governmental grief, here's link right to the Military History section: GPO Military History Publications I was amazed at the amount of stuff available, at generally reasonable prices. How does this sound? "Military Improvisations During the Russian Campaign. BOOK. 1951. Describes the main characteristics of German army improvisations and the part they played on the Russian front during World War II. Improvisation was used to deal with a growing Red army, while German forces and supplies were decreasing. Tactical, logistical, technical and organizational improvisations are discussed in detail. 118 p.; ill. 1986-repr. 0-16-001944-3 D 114.19/3:R 92 S/N 008-029-00142-0 -- $5.50" Some great finds on other wars, too. Thanks for the link.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader: It's no big deal. Have fun. Personally I hate defending as the Ami's <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But now I'm in your debt, no matter how little, and even though you sent me the present you wanted for yourself, like a 5-year-old giving mummy a wrestling action figure for Christmas. And despite the fact that I shall save your scenario for a rainy day, and I live in a place where it never rains, for my dog to play against the AI, if I get a dog, and they're not allowed in this complex. To discharge this odious obligation I send you in turn my own creation, and insist that you play Germans defending against one of the lesser denizens (lesser in a generic sense, not lesser than yourself, you pathetic hairball). As the board's self-appointed Defender, preferring to cower behind trees nibbling your rations while real men do the fighting, this should be up your alley. Also, damn you for forcing me to address you directly.

You might also be able to find Department of the Army Pamphlets No. 20-230, "Russian Combat Methods in World War II" (November 1950) and No. 20-233, "German Defense Tactics against Russian Breathroughs" (October 1951). They are compiled (with little commentary) from high-ranking German POW interviews, in unvarnished, self-serving, but vividly fresh detail, at a time when we thought we might be next, for study by US officers. No one else was reading them when I out-processed so I kept 'em.

I don't mind the disemboweling, but as for the ants... leave some Tabasco next time, they're a little bland on their own. In your mail.