New to Combat Mission

[ZackTactical34]

Hey everyone! Looking forward to purchasing Combat Mission Shock Force 2. I just have a couple questions:

1. How does CM:SF2 differ from the first one? Don't they both use the same engine?

2. Is there any good reason to purchase the CD? I'm assuming it's a one-time purchase regardless of the format (download only, CD, etc.).

[MikeyD]

Second question first. A CD purchase may be necessary if your internet is really really bad or if digital download of full games just isn't your thing. But otherwise, Steve (the boss) has advised in the past to direct download then save a copy to a memory stick in case of emergencies (you can always re-download if something bad happens). Some people still prefer a paper manual and CD because they're traditionalists.

 

As to the first question, there's this thread:

 

[ZackTactical34]

Thanks for the help. Look forward to the whole wargaming experience. Any good material for beginners: tutorials, videos, etc?

Edited September 16, 2018 by ZackTactical34

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Loads, search here or on YouTube.....But nothing beats playing the game and learning the hard way. 

[Pixel]

I didn't think of the memory stick but that is a good idea. 

[ncc1701e]

This makes me think of something. Will the 35$ upgrade allow you to purchase DVD and the paper manual ?

[Ultradave]

4 hours ago, ncc1701e said:

This makes me think of something. Will the 35$ upgrade allow you to purchase DVD and the paper manual ?

I would guess yes, because the upgrade is still a full, new installation, just at a discounted price for owners of SF1. But that's a guess at this point. I can't see why it wouldn't. You are essentially buying the exact same product at a lower price.

[Vet 0369]

On September 16, 2018 at 2:29 AM, ncc1701e said:

This makes me think of something. Will the 35$ upgrade allow you to purchase DVD and the paper manual ?

I believe I read somewhere on the forum that it will be digital download only. That might be only for the upgrade though. I seem to remember Steve saying that was how they would keep he cost down.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Vet 0369

[MikeyD]

A nifty resource for beginners is real world tactical training manuals. For infantry platoon leaders, tank commanders, etc. There's a lot of them online spanning several different conflicts. 
Because you're not really playing the 'game', you're playing the tactical situation. If doing something in the real world is a bad idea (like charging a mg nest across open ground) it'll most likely be a bad idea in the game too. A common joke with veteran CM players is when they're out driving their brains are mentally identifying defilade positions & ambush sites, and calculating weapons ranges in the surrounding countryside. 'Large two story house on a hill crest, no windows on south facing side - check'.

Edited September 22, 2018 by MikeyD

[sburke]

20 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

A nifty resource for beginners is real world tactical training manuals. For infantry platoon leaders, tank commanders, etc. There's a lot of them online spanning several different conflicts. 
Because you're not really playing the 'game', you're playing the tactical situation. If doing something in the real world is a bad idea (like charging a mg nest across open ground) it'll most likely be a bad idea in the game too. A common joke with veteran CM players is when they're out driving their brains are mentally identifying defilade positions & ambush sites, and calculating weapons ranges in the surrounding countryside. 'Large two story house on a hill crest, no windows on south facing side - check'.

And then verifying wind direction for my smoke screen. 

[ZackTactical34]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

A nifty resource for beginners is real world tactical training manuals. For infantry platoon leaders, tank commanders, etc. There's a lot of them online spanning several different conflicts. 
Because you're not really playing the 'game', you're playing the tactical situation. If doing something in the real world is a bad idea (like charging a mg nest across open ground) it'll most likely be a bad idea in the game too. A common joke with veteran CM players is when they're out driving their brains are mentally identifying defilade positions & ambush sites, and calculating weapons ranges in the surrounding countryside. 'Large two story house on a hill crest, no windows on south facing side - check'.

This is one of the key reasons why I like this game. What really drew me to it was the fact it promotes actual strategy and tactics like a wargame of pen and paper (kinda similar to chess). While I do enjoy sims like Arma with ACE, they just aren't at the same level in terms of actual thought and decision making. As for recommended books, I have the US Army Tactics Field Manual (3-90). Got it originally because I thought it would help improve my Arma tactics, only to realize after purchasing it that it goes WAY more in-depth than your basic "take cover and call out your targets." Read the first few pages and asked myself, "What the heck am I even reading?"  Anyways, I'll definitely have to give it another look when I purchase CM:SF2.

Edited September 22, 2018 by ZackTactical34

[sburke]

Arma and CM aren't an Apples to Apples comparison.  While I expect adhering to real world tactical principles in Arma would mean a superior stance you are talking about the individual now and one can't begin to assess the difference between real world training and a computer game.  However this does come to mind.

https://www.duffelblog.com/2015/01/gamer-isis-syria-iraq/

 

In CM you are a commander.  Commanders are stupider than their NCOs - face it - so we actually have a shot at being a decent commander versus being decent in actual combat...  that and we don' actually have to read a map as we can see everything.   

[Michael Emrys]

6 minutes ago, sburke said:

In CM you are a commander.  Commanders are stupider than their NCOs - face it - so we actually have a shot at being a decent commander versus being decent in actual combat...  that and we don' actually have to read a map as we can see everything. 

Which is why my preference is to play at the level of general or colonel or at the least lieutenant colonel. I like having a staff to handle all the fiddly details.

Michael

[ncc1701e]

On 9/22/2018 at 4:35 AM, MikeyD said:

A nifty resource for beginners is real world tactical training manuals. For infantry platoon leaders, tank commanders, etc. There's a lot of them online spanning several different conflicts. 
Because you're not really playing the 'game', you're playing the tactical situation. If doing something in the real world is a bad idea (like charging a mg nest across open ground) it'll most likely be a bad idea in the game too. A common joke with veteran CM players is when they're out driving their brains are mentally identifying defilade positions & ambush sites, and calculating weapons ranges in the surrounding countryside. 'Large two story house on a hill crest, no windows on south facing side - check'.

Definitely agree with what you are saying. The reason I am asking for the manual is more for all the stuff that have changed in the editor compared to CMSF1. That would be useful to have it near you.

[Vet 0369]

On September 21, 2018 at 11:44 PM, ZackTactical34 said:

I have the US Army Tactics Field Manual (3-90). Got it originally because I thought it would help improve my Arma tactics, only to realize after purchasing it that it goes WAY more in-depth than your basic "take cover and call out your targets." Read the first few pages and asked myself, "What the heck am I even reading?"  Anyways, I'll definitely have to give it another look when I purchase CM:SF2.

You might also want to consider the USMC field manual. Believe it or not, since each Marine squad has four more members than an Army squad, and for the most part difference weapons, a Marine platoon has a squad more than an Army platoon. Plus, because of the differences in weapons, such as Marine Javalins at Company level, but not usually Platoon level, the tactics used are different.

Then, if you have the "Big Bundle," the tactics and compositions of the British, Canadians, Dutch, and Germans are different than those of the U.S.

CMSF2 is a career rather than just a few months or a year or two game play.

[Vet 0369]

On September 22, 2018 at 1:42 AM, sburke said:

In CM you are a commander.  Commanders are stupider than their NCOs - face it - so we actually have a shot at being a decent commander versus being decent in actual combat...  that and we don' actually have to read a map as we can see everything.   

Based on my experience, I'd phrase this a little different. I'd use a business analogy. The Battalion Commander is the Plant Manager responsible for managing, the engineering Section, the IT Section, and the Production Section.  The Company Commander is the Section Manager, responsible to manage the different Units in the Section. The Rifle Platoon Commander is the Unit Manager, responsible to manage the different teams in the unit. The Rifle Platoon Sergeant or Section Leader is the team leader, and the Rifleman, Weapons Crew, or Scout team, are the workers. Each has the responsibility to advise their "boss" if they feel a direction from the boss isn't right, but the boss still makes the final decision. The biggest difference is that in business, it's a lot easier for a boss to blame someone else and avoid taking responsibility for the decision. 

[Lethaface]

4 hours ago, Vet 0369 said:

CMSF2 is a career rather than just a few months or a year or two game play.

Hehehe nice one.

Can't wait to restart my career!

And don't forget the RED forces, playing them successfully is a whole different ballpark compared to the Blue forces.