Javelin vs Laser Designator

[Jammersix]

One of my heroes was an officer, my brigade commander at Fort Campbell. He went on to become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and Secretary of State.

Two of the best men I've ever known were officers, and at least six of the worst. In their defense, the best were full-grown men, the worst were barely old enough to drive.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Jammersix

[TheForwardObserver]

The sharpest field artillery officers I've met have always been Canadian and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is they're doing up there.

[TheForwardObserver]

@kinophile My first proper encounter with a British Officer was at a place called Mike's in Tel Aviv.  He was in drag.  I thought he was unusual.  Moved to London for a spell after that and over the course of time I learned he was very much so a typical British Officer. 

[Kinophile]

14 hours ago, TheForwardObserver said:

The sharpest field artillery officers I've met have always been Canadian and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is they're doing up there.

Controlling the rampaging hordes of moose is primarily an artillery job; no one wants to go toe to toe with a moose, nobody sensible anyhow. And Canadians are extremely sensible, almost psychotically so.

1 hour ago, TheForwardObserver said:

@kinophile My first proper encounter with a British Officer was at a place called Mike's in Tel Aviv.  He was in drag.  I thought he was unusual.  Moved to London for a spell after that and over the course of time I learned he was very much so a typical British Officer. 

Its probably exactly why they both won and lost their empire.

 

[TheForwardObserver]

@kinophile There's probably some truth there.  The British Army always punch above their weight, and very professional across the board, I actually wish the US Army resembled it a bit more-- but like all older British institutions smacks of an organization a little too affected by the singularity and conjured theatrics of that ole Eatonian Oxbridge pipeline.  Only my opinion of course.

Edited May 26, 2016 by TheForwardObserver

[TheForwardObserver]

@Jammersix You must have been proud watching him deliver that whoopin in '91.

[Battlefront.com]

On 5/26/2016 at 11:26 PM, TheForwardObserver said:

The sharpest field artillery officers I've met have always been Canadian and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is they're doing up there.

Easy... the Canadians are exceedingly polite and generous.  This means they go to great lengths to ensure their rounds hit the intended target AND in great quantity  

Steve

[Sublime]

No offense to the cousins. But my friends who were in Iraq said the Brit Army acted like it wasnt their war. Fair nuff.

However my marine friends who took Helamand over for the Brits at the start of this decade had nothing but terrible things to say about them.

They said they had gotten into a bunker mentality, predictable.patrol times and that the Taliban had basically taken back the province under their watch. An example wqs givn of Afghan kids actually entering the perimetwr and stealing Brit gas and getting away without being shot i cant emphasize enough the utter contempt for the British military that every marine that fought in Helmand province after the Brits and were there for the transition.

That said I wasnt there.

[TheForwardObserver]

3 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Easy... the Canadians are exceedingly polite and generous.  This means they go to great lengths to ensure their rounds hit the intended target AND in great quantity  

Steve

So true.
"Hello Battery, this is B Co, Sorry to bother you, Please Adjust Fire, thank you, over"

[Battlefront.com]

4 minutes ago, TheForwardObserver said:

So true.
"Hello Battery, this is B Co, Sorry to bother you, Please Adjust Fire, thank you, over"

"Not a bother at all!  We just had some eggs and back bacon and are raring to go.  Is there anything else we can strike for you while we're at it?  We seem to have extra rounds at the moment and it would be great if you could put them to good use.  We're running out of space out here.  Over"

Steve

[spawncaptain]

3 hours ago, Sublime said:

An example wqs givn of Afghan kids actually entering the perimetwr and stealing Brit gas and getting away without being shot i cant emphasize enough the utter contempt for the British military that every marine that fought in Helmand province after the Brits and were there for the transition.

At least here in Germany reports of unarmed teenagers being shot by soldiers wielding evil looking black assault rifles would have been a huge propaganda victory for the insurgents.

[TheForwardObserver]

3 hours ago, Sublime said:

No offense to the cousins. But my friends who were in Iraq said the Brit Army acted like it wasnt their war. Fair nuff.

However my marine friends who took Helamand over for the Brits at the start of this decade had nothing but terrible things to say about them.

They said they had gotten into a bunker mentality, predictable.patrol times and that the Taliban had basically taken back the province under their watch. An example wqs givn of Afghan kids actually entering the perimetwr and stealing Brit gas and getting away without being shot i cant emphasize enough the utter contempt for the British military that every marine that fought in Helmand province after the Brits and were there for the transition.

That said I wasnt there.

Broad brushstrokes Sublime.  And did these Marines suggest shooting children for stealing gas?  They may have some different opinions about the nature of counter insurgency warfare than what you'd find being taught in a classroom at Sandhurst, or really anywhere in the civilized world.  Beyond that their criticism sounds no more remarkable than what is said by every unit about the units they replace.  It's a right to blame the unit that came before you but that doesn't mean it's right.

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheForwardObserver

[TheForwardObserver]

10 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

"Not a bother at all!  We just had some eggs and back bacon and are raring to go.  Is there anything else we can strike for you while we're at it?  We seem to have extra rounds at the moment and it would be great if you could put them to good use.  We're running out of space out here.  Over"

Steve

"I'm sorry, we must have made a mistake, Right 150 Please, over"
"No, no-- our sincerest apologies for not hitting it the first time!  Rest of the day all rounds will be two for the price of one!"

[Battlefront.com]

Oh, let's not start down the road of various grunts complaining about other nations' militaries.  The list of complaints against US military personnel, Marines included, is long.  Rape and murder included. 

All militaries have bad apples, all militaries have lapses in protocol, all militaries have cultural differences.  Pointing fingers at one does nothing but invite people to point fingers at others.  Except for Canadians.  They believe pointing is impolite

Steve

[TheForwardObserver]

 

[Battlefront.com]

Monty Python makes everything better!  Though I did have an incident with a 23 year old recently who asked, in all seriousness, "Monty who?".  Shocking.  Especially since his dad is from the Midlands.

Steve

[MikeyD]

Yeh, talking about Monty Python to a kid today is equivalent to someone talking about a comedy act from the 1920s (Jack Benny?) when I was a kid. Another 3 years and it'll be their half century anniversary!

[Sublime]

Again as i said i wasnt there 

But yes in the marines opinion especially initially when all they knew was teenagers on a scooter had breached their perimeter and in am area known for suicide attacks yes they shoulda been gunned down. And i sincerely doubt 2 dead Afghan males of teenage age shot at a FOB in Iraq circa 09 woulda caused even a blip back home.

[AttorneyAtWar]

Just now, Sublime said:

Again as i said i wasnt there 

But yes in the marines opinion especially initially when all they knew was teenagers on a scooter had breached their perimeter and in am area known for suicide attacks yes they shoulda been gunned down. And i sincerely doubt 2 dead Afghan males of teenage age shot at a FOB in Iraq circa 09 woulda caused even a blip back home.

Hearts and minds everyone.

 

Hearts and minds.

[Battlefront.com]

4 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Again as i said i wasnt there

Then drop it.  The only thing worse than having a narrow minded bias against an entire class of people is repeating someone else's narrow minded bias against an entire class of people.

Steve

[Sublime]

Fine all id like to say is i have respect for anyone who served anywhere because i certainly havent. I just was expressing the views i was very surprised to hear from people.

[A Canadian Cat]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

Yeh, talking about Monty Python to a kid today is equivalent to someone talking about a comedy act from the 1920s (Jack Benny?) when I was a kid. Another 3 years and it'll be their half century anniversary!

Not my kids - they have seen all of the Monty Python stuff (and had countless friends over to watch too).  Heck they make reference now that I have forgotten about.

Mind you some of their friends do say Monty who? - but to them

[Vanir Ausf B]

1 hour ago, Sublime said:

Fine all id like to say is i have respect for anyone who served anywhere because i certainly havent. I just was expressing the views i was very surprised to hear from people.

From a former US Green Beret who was there: "My relationship with the British military is not diminished and I would go into combat with their soldiers anytime.  My respect for British soldiers is immense and undying."

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/bull****-bob.htm

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/death-in-the-corn-part-i-of-iii.htm

 

[Battlefront.com]

1 hour ago, Sublime said:

Fine all id like to say is i have respect for anyone who served anywhere because i certainly havent. I just was expressing the views i was very surprised to hear from people.

Ask them what they think of the US Army or even other Marines, you'll probably get similar stories.  Ask some British soldiers what they think of US Marines and I don't think it would take very long to find some extremely unflattering stories.  That's the point you don't seem to be getting... soldiers have a long and proud history of complaining about pretty everything and everybody.  Everybody screws up on a pretty regular basis.  I bet if you asked your friends' COs they would probably have some gripes about specific incidents as well.  Therefore, what's the point of highlighting one tiny incident?  No good comes from it.

Steve

[Kinophile]

He'll soldiers complain about their own units just as much. Some of the nonsense my brother told me from his Irish Guards days is hilarious.