Hate those LOS!!!!

[Jaresh]

:mad::mad::mad:

I keep firing Smoke / HE / AP ammo on trees despite having a clear Blue LOS indicating I should be able to fire!!

If this game is to get us into micro-management of units, I'm hoping not having to check how many branches there are on a tree before I elect to fire!!!

This drives me nuts nuts nuts!:mad::mad:

[womble]

You've got LOS/LOF indicated, because it is possible to hit some part of what you're aiming at. Every round follows its own trajectory, and some of them will miss the tree, others won't. You're already exploiting edge conditions (and there's nothing wrong with that) by firing through trees at all, and the closer you push towards the edge, the more likely it is that things will go a bit suiffy.

[c3k]

LOL! I feel your pain. Well, not me, but my men. I've finally learned not to send HE over the top of my men if there are trees nearby. I've lost count of the friendlies I've killed by having my supporting tanks explode their shells on a limb right over a squad. On the other hand, I've learned how effective airbursts can be.

[Paper Tiger]

A clear Blue target line should indicate a good, clear LoS. Jaresh, if you could post a screenshot the next time you see this happen, it will help us a lot to determine if there is an issue here.

And, errr... welcome to the boards.

[Frankster65]

Aahh...the misfortunes of war. Nothing is certain now is it?

[Sgt Schultz]

It isn't as bad as it was, but it still happens. Most often with coax MGs on tanks for me. The tank round flies true, but the MG gnaws on a tree 30 metres to the front.

I have NO CLUE how hard it would be to code in a 'hit range detect' function for firing units, but we need one.

If you set a Target command to something 200m away and all fire stops well short, the gun should stop firing.

I am NOT advocating an auto-repositioning of firing units. That would lead to needless deaths of units and tears galore from players.

Poo-poo occurs in war, and rounds hit trees and other obstructions. No laser sights in WW2. After the first few rounds though, it just makes the firing unit look like morons.

I have seen tanks drive through trees, and park with a tree trunk sticking straight out of the turret(hilarious). Make the tree trunks, not just their foliage, 'solid' in the game environment and detectable to LOF calcs please.

[womble]

I have seen tanks drive through trees, and park with a tree trunk sticking straight out of the turret(hilarious). Make the tree trunks, not just their foliage, 'solid' in the game environment and detectable to LOF calcs please.

Unfortunately, trees have to be 'clippable', according to Steve, in order to make pathing algorithms simple enough to run in an appropriate timeframe. In the same way that you can motor a tank at top speed along a line of prone infantry teams without any of them moving out of the way... Making tanks drive round trees all the time was too nightmarish.

Not sure that movement ignoring them means anything wrt LOS/LOF though. I think if a tree trunk being near the centrline of the target line meant we weren't allowed to go for the shot, we'd be at least as unhappy. Some better method of reporting 'partial' LOS/LOF would be most welcome, though.

[Jaresh]

A clear Blue target line should indicate a good, clear LoS. Jaresh, if you could post a screenshot the next time you see this happen, it will help us a lot to determine if there is an issue here.

And, errr... welcome to the boards.

lol thanks for the welcome and sorry to air my frustration. I see the replies of several of you and share the same issues with colateral casualties for men close to tanks firing in trees.

I agree with you, basically, what CMBN should tell me is: can I fire or not to that target?

If the line is Blue, I can no probs;

if the line is grey, I can but there's a problem (not all squad firepower, risks to hit trees, blah blah);

if the line is blue/pink (boy/girl thingy?? ;-)) nope I can't fire.

I've moved as close to the edge of the forest as I could, I tried not to fire at targets behind trees, but I cant go into further micro management.

And it's a pity because the waypoint system allows you to do so much more with your units! It's a shame to see all your nicely prepared moves turn into catastrophic situations because a smoke was not dropped where it was supposed, etc. You go back to one move per minute.

so I don't know whether this can be addressed but it woul make my game much more fun. right now I waste so much ammo - in particular smoke - that the scenario loses in its balance.

otherwise, trees are also an indicator to where the enemy is firing from, with all the chips of wood flying with mg fire. is it good, realistic or not, I'm not sure.

[Vencini]

Ok you can check LOS from the last waypoint of a movement line but...You're on the last waypoint of a movement line with a FO or HQ...You can check LOS for the artillerypanel option from tha last waypoint of the movement?

Does the little orange dartboard from artillery panel appears, like the LOS, from a last waypoint?You can check where the artillery will falls (or if you can call artillery) from a waypoint of the movement line, like the LOS do?

I don't know if I explained my question clearly, you people are very clever here, and i'm sure you'll understand my question (or not)

Thanks and greetings

[BadgerDog]

I tried a search to see if I could find a topic relevant to my problem and this is the closest I could get, but my apologies if it's not completely on topic.

LOS .. I don't understand what's happening with it .... :confused:

I used to understand it with CMBO, CMBB, CMAK etc ...

Example ....

I did a setup with AT guns that have a clear line of sight (light blue line) to a cross roads and the surrounding area.

Once the game started, the LOS was no longer clear?

It stayed blocked that way through multiple turns with on smoke, trees or anything else blocking the view that was there during the setup.

I was about to pack up and start moving the gun, then suddenly the original clear LOS view of the cross roads re-appeared and it was fine again, lasting for a turn or two, then it went back to being no longer clear, again, for no apparent reason.

What the heck is going on?

Is there a bug, or some other anomaly I'm missing?

Regards,

Doug

[Sgt Joch]

Although not scientific, even if the LOS tool tells me the view is clear, I still drop down to the "1" level and eyeball it myself from the unit's point of view. You can usually tell pretty quickly if you have a clear shot or not.

[drrowley]

i have seen, with several avfs', when plotting 'smoke', will have a clear los to target; but, when plotted, plot actually goes to nearst' center of tile and if los now blocked, shot will be aborted sometime during the turn. imoh; this center of tile crap.... is just that... crap.

[BadgerDog]

Well, upon watching this phenomenon even more during the scenario, there's apparently no rhyme nor reason for the odd LOS behavior. The gun crew goes from having a great LOS on one turn to being only able to see 9 meters in front of them on the next turn, with no other reason for it. Health is ok and they are not even nervous. No smoke or explosion debris in the way, or any other blockage.

Really weird...has to be a software bug someplace... I beginning to think I enjoyed the old CMBO, CMBB and CMAK more ...

Regards,

Doug

ps: what's with lots of fields that have solid bocage on all four sides?

If real life was like that, then how the heck did the farmer get in and out to service it... You place troops in it and they have no way of getting out..

[Jaresh]

i have seen, with several avfs', when plotting 'smoke', will have a clear los to target; but, when plotted, plot actually goes to nearst' center of tile and if los now blocked, shot will be aborted sometime during the turn. imoh; this center of tile crap.... is just that... crap.

yes, I have had this as well and it dirves me nuts. I'm not sure how to avoid having this crap as you call it.

you need to check los to the centre of that tile as well?

this inability to fire as cause me to lose so many men and tanks. not nice. it doesn't make the game experience that nice...

[Holien]

Well, upon watching this phenomenon even more during the scenario, there's apparently no rhyme nor reason for the odd LOS behavior. The gun crew goes from having a great LOS on one turn to being only able to see 9 meters in front of them on the next turn, with no other reason for it. Health is ok and they are not even nervous. No smoke or explosion debris in the way, or any other blockage.

Really weird...has to be a software bug someplace... I beginning to think I enjoyed the old CMBO, CMBB and CMAK more ...

I think this is one of the features you will have to live with and find some way of accepting. I have had similar situations and while very annoying I am having to re-set my expectations which is not easy but must be done to enjoy the game. The problem I hit is with HMG teams when you think you will get LOS but the man with the HMG does not go where you want him. You have to keep jiggling the team to get him lined up. Just part of the issue of AI and IRL I guess could happen...

ps: what's with lots of fields that have solid bocage on all four sides?

If real life was like that, then how the heck did the farmer get in and out to service it... You place troops in it and they have no way of getting out..

Poor design and if we keep mentioning it hopefully the designers (those nice people who get off their arse and feed us ungrateful SOB) will put in gaps, hedge and all such nice things to make it like a proper field rather than bocage walls. The whole bocage issue not passable to infantry has been done quite a few times in discussion and there are two camps with different views...

However only one view holds and that is of BTS and non passing through bocage with anything..... (Unless you use Cullins or Demo charges...(that's for you Jon))

[Vencini]

Sorry for using this tread but you're speaking about LOS...

I can check LOS from the last point of a row of movements, ok. But, can I check LOS with a FO or a HQ with radio to call for artillery fire, from a last way point of movement?

It's possible to check LOS for artillery (the dartboard image when you use the artillery pannel) like we do when check LOS from the last way point of movement? Does the dartboard image from the artilley pannel works like the LOS?

I hope I explained well my question... :confused:

Thanks for the answers and greetings!

[Kai_Lae]

I did a setup with AT guns that have a clear line of sight (light blue line) to a cross roads and the surrounding area.

Once the game started, the LOS was no longer clear?

It stayed blocked that way through multiple turns with on smoke, trees or anything else blocking the view that was there during the setup.

I was about to pack up and start moving the gun, then suddenly the original clear LOS view of the cross roads re-appeared and it was fine again, lasting for a turn or two, then it went back to being no longer clear, again, for no apparent reason.

What the heck is going on?

Is there a bug, or some other anomaly I'm missing?

Regards,

Doug

Uncertian, but hiding units will frequently have crap LOS. Basically they can't see anything hugging the dirt, you have to unhide them in order for them to actually see. And if the unit is under fire hugging dirt, I'd assume you have the same LOS as hiding. I think this is a factor on what's going on.

What I don't understand is when I go down with the camera to have a look at the LOS myself, find that it's fine, then when a unit gets there I basically find I have nothing. That's annoying.

[Arm505]

Hi all,

I've been a lurker for a while, but have played CMSF for quite a while and now CMBN. Relating to this thread, I've always wanted a "Move to cover this area/point" (click on area/point to cover) movement order. Now, to get crew into a reasonably decent cover, or to ensure a tank is hull down for example, we have to go totally mad with micromoving the unit around to see a particular spot and keep on having to 'look over their shoulder' (round a corner, over a hill etc). It would be nice to just click on a point on the ground, and have the crew advance straight towards that point until they could see it, then stop. Maybe even being able to stack a 'cover arc' with that would be nice. How feasible is this? I have a few further ideas on the technicalities of this, but that's the basic idea at least - good, yes/no?

[drrowley]

"you need to check los to the center of that tile as well?"

yea. anyway, i now have been checking los/lof and after clicking the target area, see what tile it jumps to. then check again at that point....

image is example. was targeting for smoke round, star is ~the area it was actually plotted. once i start the turn, the tank turret would slew to target, but then abort once it was pointing at the plot.

now my panther on the hill problem.

with foliage off, yea, tank appears very well. this is ~5x view. but the arrows show tree trunks directly in line.

i said when i first plotted this, from the panther, i couldn't find an los that could see the hill, let alone the td on it. i rechecked and found this, which is just in front of the td (and at this point, panther doesn't see it). Notice that the measurement is to the reverse side of the ridge.

with foliage on..... this is 1x. do real trees have irregularities, sure. i just have hard time believing seeing threw 4+ trees at 500m.

sorry for the grainy pictures, as i reduced them they went grainy. need to play more with photo shop.

[Jaresh]

thanks for the pictures.

hope the guys from BF can solve the issue. I don't see how you can plan your moves without knowing whether you can smoke your path of progression.