Playing the Demo -- Road to Berlin is kicking my butt

[BRO, JD]

Any suggestions? Or am I just in over my head? I think I'm using most of my capabilities (even popped some smoke). The AT guns keep knocking out my Shermans and I can't maneuver my infantry close enough to support without them getting pinned down and wiped out.

And I did play the old CM games (BO, BB, and AK), so I've got some feel of the usual tactics.

[FragerZ]

Try looking for a youtube video of that map.

[womble]

Some general tips:

• Be patient. Don't rush. You have plenty of time. In this scenario the enemy are very fragile and just pouring lead in their general direction will break many of the elements facing you
  
• Don't put your tanks in harm's way until you've identified and neutralised the AT assets that can reach out and touch them. PaK 40 can kill from across the map. Shrek will fire at you from about 200m and will score the occasional kill at that range; under 100m, you'll probably lose the tank. Faust - I don't know. Don't think I've ever lost a tank to a panzerfaust...
  
• Your infantry only have to be within 1800m to take out the AT assets. 60mm mortars can reach the entire map in this scenario. Use them to take out the ATGs. You can either use them direct-firing from your infantry's forward positions or leave them in the farmyard and fire indirect using your HQs as spotters.
  
• Once the ATGs are gone, your smallarms firepower is enough to neutralise any AT Rockets.
  
• Don't advance infantry en masse until you're pretty sure it's safe to do so.
  
• Infantry don't spot well while moving, so to identify threats, give them plenty of time static.
  
• Covered Arc is important. It stops your troops firing when they shouldn't, which keeps them from being spotted, which keeps them alive.
  
• Hide is an "all-out defense". The default behaviour of your infantry is to seek cover and concealment. Issuing a hide order means that pretty much all they do is hug dirt. They don't spot well and fight worse while hidden. It should not be employed as the default 'last order' for a movement bound. It has its place in the order arsenal, but you'll figure out what that place is for yourself
  
• If all else fails, try playing the scenario in 'hot seat' mode. The defense is pretty passive anyway, so on the German turns, just watch the minute and click "Go". This way you'll be able to see plainly where you're going wrong.
  

Good luck.

[Collingwood]

That's what hooked me on CMBN straight off: in the demo the AI was not a walkover.

There are a few neat pointers in this tutorial by Dakuth using that map.

See here:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=98844

cheers

[Sakai007]

I have not lost any tanks to PzFausts, but I have killed quite a few, screens available on request The range is only about 30 meters, looks like 5 meters in game, and tanks tend to not just let u kill them. That big hollow charge shell is an instant kill in most cases, works great if u can get close enough.

[womble]

I have not lost any tanks to PzFausts, but I have killed quite a few, screens available on request ...

I'll believe ya

The range is only about 30 meters, looks like 5 meters in game...

Yeah, I still suck at eyeballing ranges. Have to get a measuring line out every time...

...and tanks tend to not just let u kill them.

Sometimes seem like the AI wants them to die, though. Just had a couple of StuHs obligingly roll up to within 40m of a hedgerow that they really didn't need to be anywhere near. Made one crew bail and discouraged the other enough that it literally turned its tail and started to run. Last bomb immobilised it. It would have made it, I'm sure, if it had kept its front pointed at the hedge, if only because the engine would have been harder to hit.

That big hollow charge shell is an instant kill in most cases, works great if u can get close enough.

One day I'll get around to playing some games as Germans and learn to appreciate the Faust.

[MikeyD]

Remember CM:BN is not a 'puzzle game'. There's not necessarily a 'key' to get you through a scenario. I think of it more as an 'experience' game. You're experiencing what its like to face a stubborn AT gun. If the scenario kicks your but, well, c'est la guerre.

[Erwin]

Womble has said just about everything you need to know, BRO, JD. The fact that you played CM1, but perhaps not CMSF puts you at an initial disadvantage, as the CM2 system is different to CM1.

CM1 was usually about armor being supported by inf. In CM2 its about inf supported by armor. In addition, you may have to spend 50%-75% spotting and scouting with inf to spot the nasty enemy assets, then waiting another 5 mins while you kill em with arty, before your main attack with armor supporting the inf. CM2 requires a different mindset and a lot more patience than CM1.

[herr_oberst]

Any suggestions? Or am I just in over my head? I think I'm using most of my capabilities (even popped some smoke). The AT guns keep knocking out my Shermans and I can't maneuver my infantry close enough to support without them getting pinned down and wiped out.

And I did play the old CM games (BO, BB, and AK), so I've got some feel of the usual tactics.

Smoke if you got 'em. Seriously, use the smoke to cover your advance of the armor.

[dpabrams]

If CM:BN was easy everyone would play it.

[MOSwas71331]

Any suggestions? Or am I just in over my head? I think I'm using most of my capabilities (even popped some smoke). The AT guns keep knocking out my Shermans and I can't maneuver my infantry close enough to support without them getting pinned down and wiped out.

And I did play the old CM games (BO, BB, and AK), so I've got some feel of the usual tactics.

I'm having the same problems. It's particularly annoying to read so many posts / threads complaining about how easy ("as pie" according to one fellow) it is to win against the AI. I really enjoyed CMBO-CMBB-CMAK, but the only fun I've had so far playing "Road to Berlin" was trying different prep fire patterns with the US mortars to see how they worked and how much damage they inflicted. (My best result was eliminating 15 Germans including one heavy machine gun.)

You can find plenty of "sure fire" tips on how to play by reading the threads on which I've posted. None of those tips have yet worked for me, but perhaps your experience will be better.

[BRO, JD]

A bit better tonight -- after daydreaming about this scenario through training today.

Went very slow and deliberate. A lot of massed firepower; not much fire and maneuver. I basically lined my two platoons up on the first bocage line, poured some fire on the Ostrfronttruppen, and then moved one platoon up through the farm. My Shermans sat in the back and took potshots when they could see, but they didn't provide much.

I did take a lot of casualties -- most to artillery.

And even though I killed all of the baddies in the farm and occupied it at the end (or at least had a unit inside the hedges there -- maybe that was the problem), the scenario didn't give me credit at the end for holding it.

[Agua]

A bit better tonight -- after daydreaming about this scenario through training today.

Went very slow and deliberate. A lot of massed firepower; not much fire and maneuver. I basically lined my two platoons up on the first bocage line, poured some fire on the Ostrfronttruppen, and then moved one platoon up through the farm. My Shermans sat in the back and took potshots when they could see, but they didn't provide much.

I did take a lot of casualties -- most to artillery.

And even though I killed all of the baddies in the farm and occupied it at the end (or at least had a unit inside the hedges there -- maybe that was the problem), the scenario didn't give me credit at the end for holding it.

Yeah, as I recall, there's like one building that is on top of the green objective location and you've got to have a unit occupying that building.

[womble]

A bit better tonight -- after daydreaming about this scenario through training today.

Went very slow and deliberate. A lot of massed firepower; not much fire and maneuver. I basically lined my two platoons up on the first bocage line, poured some fire on the Ostrfronttruppen, and then moved one platoon up through the farm. My Shermans sat in the back and took potshots when they could see, but they didn't provide much.

I did take a lot of casualties -- most to artillery.

That's something I did forget: concentrating your troops too much isn't necessarily a good thing. They can only fire on a limited frontage, and become sitting ducks for arty. For my money, one platoon is enough on that hedge on the left, with one squad being sent actually into the farm once it's suppressed. The other platoon can drive down the right through the bocage almost on autopilot, the OstBattalion troops there are so fragile. That way you can get twice as much done at once. I should declare I'm a WeGo player, not RT, so your mileage may vary on the 'multitasking' front While you're learning the mechanics, though, I think it'd take a special kind of masochist to be playing RT!

[MOSwas71331]

You needn't worry about losing your Shermans. One fellow claimed in his post he beat the Germans in "Road to Berlin" without using the US tanks. I don't think he explained what he actually did with them. Having all five clustered around the US entry area would have made quite a traffic jam.

[MOSwas71331]

The other US platoon can drive down the right through the bocage almost on autopilot, the OstBattalion troops there are so fragile.

Those "fragile" troops seem able to knock out tanks covering the US platoon advancing on the right, and, at the same time, to fire at the platoon advancing toward the hedgerow on the left while covered by other tanks. It would also be nice if US troops could sometimes see the OstBattalion soldaten with AT weapons before they engage and destroy US tanks. The only significant German weapon my troops have been able to see and eliminate is an HMG, and that took about a dozen mortar rounds and the rifle fire of three US squads.

I should declare I'm a WeGo player, not RT, so your mileage may vary on the 'multitasking' front While you're learning the mechanics, though, I think it'd take a special kind of masochist to be playing RT!

I fully agree with those sentiments. I doubt I'll ever feel sufficiently competent to try RT.

[womble]

Those "fragile" troops seem able to knock out tanks covering the US platoon advancing on the right...

In the interests of edimucation, why were you even bothering with the tanks before you'd made sure there were no AT assets that could geek them?

, and, at the same time, to fire at the platoon advancing toward the hedgerow on the left while covered by other tanks.

The tank-killing troops are not the troops that are firing on the left-hand troops. If you were engaging them with the second platoon, they'd be much more interested in defending themselves (mostly by panicing and running away) from those troops than trying to shoot across the line of your attack. I have to say I don't remember coming under fire from the right at all until the second platoon started advancing down that route. The big hedge on the right of the long field precludes it.

It would also be nice if US troops could sometimes see the OstBattalion soldaten with AT weapons before they engage and destroy US tanks.

They will if you leave your tanks back.

The only significant German weapon my troops have been able to see and eliminate is an HMG, and that took about a dozen mortar rounds and the rifle fire of three US squads.

Again, in the interests of education, have they been able to see any of the other non-squad assets?

It's also not necessary to kill HMG squads until you've gotten rid of the AT assets, and your tanks can do it. Just keeping them suppressed should be enough. Sometimes it's necessary to risk a tank to draw an ATG (not an AT rocket; they're too common and infantry can deal with them just fine). Don't feel bad about that: sherman front armour can very often defeat 75mm kinetic AP; you're not sending them on a suicide mission. Just make sure you've got lots of infantry eyes to spot the ATG when it does fire, so you can put some HE on its head. When I played it, though, it opened up on my infantry.

[Erwin]

Don't forget that your tanks have smoke rounds that are very useful to cover inf advances.

Also re "I doubt I'll ever feel sufficiently competent to try RT." RT is the easy way to play as you can pause any time you want to adjust orders. Much harder to play WEGO, where you have to consider all options and issue orders that are good for 60 seconds.

WEGO is played by professionals. Don't try try WEGO at home kids.

[DavidFields]

Infantry before tanks, I think that is the classic vet advice for these simulations.

It may seem crazy, since everyone wants to use the iron beasts to break the enemy. But tanks are often, in WW2 at least, with some exceptions, mobile HMGs with HE support, behind the infantry.

That is why the Mrk4 german tank is my favorite--you can criticize its armor thickness, but it just seems to me an iron beast very suited to actually getting the job done.