So how many copies of CMBN sold

[Erik Springelkamp]

And you can base the amount of sales based on the amount of individual participants in these boards.

No, you cannot.

[Franko]

Sure you can. It would be a reasoned estimate, at best. But again, who cares. I hope that Battlefront makes a handsome profit and stays in business. That's all.

[hoolaman]

I have never seen BFC give out any real numbers and I doubt the quote above tell us anything.

The most downloaded scenarios on the repository have around 1600 downloads. I guess there is no more than around 500 active posters on the forum. I imagine there might be a couple of multiples of those numbers who are not using either service but I'd guess more like 5,000 in sales rather than 50,000.

Of course BFC have other revenues and Steve is fond of saying that their games are a "slow burn", so I guess they are doing ok.

[slysniper]

I have never seen BFC give out any real numbers and I doubt the quote above tell us anything.

The most downloaded scenarios on the repository have around 1600 downloads. I guess there is no more than around 500 active posters on the forum. I imagine there might be a couple of multiples of those numbers who are not using either service but I'd guess more like 5,000 in sales rather than 50,000.

Of course BFC have other revenues and Steve is fond of saying that their games are a "slow burn", so I guess they are doing ok.

At one time, this forum had a number for when you signed in, they removed that from our view anyway, when they updated the forum, but up to that point the number of reqistered users were much higher than the numbers you are thinking about. Plus I would feel safe in saying olny a small percentage ever bothers to take part in the forum, less than that ever find out or use other sights and a majority of casual gamers have already moved on to other things without ever thinking about any of them types of things.

[hoolaman]

Yes, since 1999 there have been many people registered on these boards, as I recall I was somewhere around 13000 in 2003. Only a very, very small percentage of them would have bought CMBN or indeed be playing any battlefront game today, and quite a few only played other battlefront games.

Selling "only" 5,000 copies in three months would still give BFC reveues of ~$300,000 from CMBN alone. They don't have an office costing them overheads, but they would have to pay for warehousing and production of all the hard copies.

I can't really conceive of a world where this barely promoted and extremely esoteric game has sold anywhere near 50,000 copies. But again that is just my opinion.

[Erwin]

In good ol' cardboard wargame days IIRC PanzerBlitz was the most successful with ~200,000 copies. "Good" numbers these days are more than a couple thousand.

Thank heaven that BFC isn't interested in money, they are on a mission from Dog.

[Vanir Ausf B]

"BTW, the 100,000 units sold thing is quite low if all CMx1 games are factored in together. Remember we've had large amounts of retail coverage pretty much world wide since 2000. I'd guess the total numbers to be in the 300,000 range. Shame we don't get $45 a pop for the retail sales. However, you should be thankful. Because if we did, there would be no CMx2 because I'd be retired already."

Link

That was in 2007, shortly before CMSF was released. So somewhere around 300,000 for CMBO, CMBB and CMAK combined. We also know that CMBO sold more than CMBB and CMAK. So it's a safe bet that CMBO probably sold at least 100,000 and Steve has said that CMBN is on track to equal CMBO's numbers.

[slysniper]

"BTW, the 100,000 units sold thing is quite low if all CMx1 games are factored in together. Remember we've had large amounts of retail coverage pretty much world wide since 2000. I'd guess the total numbers to be in the 300,000 range. Shame we don't get $45 a pop for the retail sales. However, you should be thankful. Because if we did, there would be no CMx2 because I'd be retired already."

Link

That was in 2007, shortly before CMSF was released. So somewhere around 300,000 for CMBO, CMBB and CMAK combined. We also know that CMBO sold more than CMBB and CMAK. So it's a safe bet that CMBO probably sold at least 100,000 and Steve has said that CMBN is on track to equal CMBO's numbers.

Now here is some good input, as far as the money went it sounds like they might have made 10 cents on the dollar for retail sales compared to their own, so if 200,000 copies were from retail, that would be like only 20,000 if they sold them themselves.

As for numbers, then maybe 100,000 is within the potential of their sales.

As for running the company, that is why I figured 50,000 would be a good base, that would cover employees pay for a few years and all the cost of company plus a little profit that would push them on to wanting to continue on this adventure. They deserve to make a decent living, but there is no question in my mind that they also do it for the love of the hobby.

[StellarRat]

Well, they've added several skilled people to the payroll since CMSF first came

out, so clearly the company has a larger cash flow now than they did in the early CMx1 days (note, though that larger cash flow does not necessarily equal greater profits). Of course, the CM franchise isn't the company's only source of revenue, but I assume it is the most significant by a considerable margin.

What exactly this means in sales figures, I have no idea other than "more".

Well back in the "before" times BFC didn't have many offerings. You have to remember they sell more than just CM. I remember when they only had a couple of titles for sale. As far as I know CM is the only thing they actually write the code for, but they get a cut from other titles and the number of those has exploded compared to the CMBO days.

[StellarRat]

I worked at a small programming shop. To give seven people a decent living and benefits we needed a revenue of about one million per year so they probably need sales of at least 10000 - 20000 copies and their other income to survive. With only five of them they are probably making a pretty good living. Running a software company that depends on each title being popular takes a lot of guts.

[z1812]

Theses games, in my view, are the best tactical wargames one can buy. I have no idea how many copies they sell. Hopefully it is enough to keep them all comfortable.

The only Combat Mission series product I am missing is CMA which I will buy soon.

I play PBEM's of different games regularly with 5 to 6 people. 2 of them are playing the demo now and judging by their comments they will soon purchase it. I know one other fellow that will buy it for sure.

So I presume there are still a lot of people waiting to buy, who will, but in the future.

[Franko]

Yes, since 1999 there have been many people registered on these boards, as I recall I was somewhere around 13000 in 2003. Only a very, very small percentage of them would have bought CMBN or indeed be playing any battlefront game today, and quite a few only played other battlefront games.

Selling "only" 5,000 copies in three months would still give BFC reveues of ~$300,000 from CMBN alone. They don't have an office costing them overheads, but they would have to pay for warehousing and production of all the hard copies.

I can't really conceive of a world where this barely promoted and extremely esoteric game has sold anywhere near 50,000 copies. But again that is just my opinion.

I agree with this. It sounds reasoned and plausible. But they choose to keep this information private, and I think that's a correct decision. If they can make a buck selling a great product that keeps a lot of history buffs happy, more power to them. But asking for their sales is absurdly personal in a way. We should let it go.