Am I playing correctly? Struggling with tactics

[Renaud]

My suggestion is take the arty you know you won't be able to use, and paste likely locations with pre-planned barrages. At least you get some use out of it that way. Certain nasty scenario designers prevent this by having the arty come in as reinforcements...

This works even better on the defense, where it's very difficult to predict and hit a fast moving enemy unless you have some TRP's out there and the enemy advances near/between them.

[Apocalypse 31]

I could do with some tactical advice - I'm an armchair general no more no less, with plenty of experience with CMx1 and Shock Force. But this is something else. It's difficult for the most part.

Don't feel bad. I'm a Captain in the US Army and an Armor officer with 2 deployments to Iraq...this game kicks my ass on a daily basis.

I just got done playing the second mission of the first campaign. It was uuuuuuuugly. I'll leave it at that before I embarrass myself and degrade everyone's thoughts of military officers :-)

My tactical nuggets:

-Always attack with a 3:1 ratio in forces

-Never attack without a base of fire - Make it rain! Keep their heads down and maneuver your forces while the enemy is suppressed.

-Always over-kill your enemy - I can't tell you how many times that I THOUGHT I had wiped out an enemy squad only to find 1 or 2 survivors jump up and fire a burst at my guys as they cleared the objective. Use the 'assault' or 'hunt' commands while clearing enemy positions.

-Cut your enemy's retreat - One thing I noticed in CM:BN that is much different from CM:SF is that the enemy will be much more sensible about retreating. I've been in a few situations where the enemy fell back to another location and continued fighting.

-Don't lose your "Tactical Focus" - I'm often guilty of my own advice. Some of these missions are complicated. Constantly evaluate your mission and review your objectives. In most cases your objective is terrain-based, not enemy based. You don't have to kill every single enemy - don't waste time or your men's lives if you don't have to.

[LemuelG]

Playing on 'warrior' in RTM campaign I got a lot of leverage from the heavy guns/mortars by taking my time in setup and making a plan, using time-delayed barrages on the locations which I want my troops to occupy/attack.

The maps are not large, and the best defensive positions are pretty obvious - I estimate, how long will it take me to get B company in a position to launch an attack on hedge-line X? So I give them ten minutes to make it to the jump-off and get maximum leverage from the fire-support, any delays can be accounted for by setting the barrage to 'maximum' length, and cancelling it when your guys have arrived and been ordered to assault - hopefully they will be hitting the objective just as the last few shells are falling, no time for the defenders to rally.

If you have ample support (and in RTM you almost always do) you can pre-plan multiple strikes staggered along the map and create a rolling-barrage to sweep your path clear. It works good, save your light-mortars for delivering the coup de grace to suppressed enemies, fighting from the front line by aimed-fire.

[Magpie_Oz]

Tactics will come with experience.

In the mean time gather yourself a series of plausible excuses.

The sun was in my eyes, I usually play WEGO, It was Hitler's/Montgomery's/Patton's fault (as the case may be), the mission brief wasn't written well, I was in a rush with that turn as the wife wanted me to mow the lawn etc.

[De Savage]

People should do more video AARs and share their tactics! I learned a ton from few video AAR's.

[womble]

I just got done playing the second mission of the first campaign. It was uuuuuuuugly. I'll leave it at that before I embarrass myself and degrade everyone's thoughts of military officers :-)

Aha! Another victim of "sort by name" I think! Though it's the first listed, Courage and Fortitude's second mission School of Hard Knocks seems to be accounted one of the most tricky of the scenarios supplied with the game. Losing lots of men in that one isn't anything to be embarrassed about.

[phil stanbridge]

Just curious, what campaign are you working through? Sounds like Road to Montebourg. In C & F, I think the first bad@ss mission comes on much earlier than #4.

Yes, RTM. I first attempted the German campaign, which was a mistake. That's a tough nut to crack as well! I didn't enjoy the first few missions at all and I ended up losing it by mission 5 I think it was. So I opted for the RTM which I thought was the 'middle ground' as far as the campaigns go. Because it is infantry centric it provides some interesting challenges that would otherwise be dealt with quite easily with a Priest or some heavy artillery.

Tips on things that are working for me:

1. Scouts out: break out 4-8 2-man scout teams from a company (pick from the better squads). Fan them out to ID or annoy targets, moving a little (hunt and slow, 30-50 meters per hop), stopping to listen (use pauses liberally in WEGO). Always have overwatch in position, because it's the overwatch that will actually ID the enemy much of the time (not the terrified scouts). Scouts without overwatch are still useful, because you can find the enemy with your gods-eye view even if your other units don't 'see' the enemy due to C2, but not as useful. Especially vs. Human that will kill your scounts and run off before you can respond.

3. when moving up units to the next phase line - usually a hedgerow (particularly HQ's and FO's), SLOW them the last 10 meters into possible enemy LOS, combined with HIDE (make sure hide is selected, so they will autohide when reaching the end of waypoint). Then, unhide them selectively, insuring that they have their 30-meter cover arcs set (see #2 above).

4. Always keep a reserve force completely uncommitted - typically 1/3rd of your total force (1 platoon from a company, for instance). Pretend these guys don't exist and play with the other 2/3rd as long as humanly possible. You'll be thankful later. A nice variation on this, if you have a good company CO, is handpick squads/teams and assign directly to the CO. This way you keep 3 maneuver platoons, with an effective reserve force directly under the CO.

So much stuff to re-learn here, and I consider myself a CMx1 vet!

#1 is sound advice; I have been scouting with two man teams, but I haven't been providing overwatch. Not specifically anyway. I try to keep reserves back, like you say, perhaps a platoon or even two, depending on the mission. But attrition is killing my guys! I need to practice using single platoons with support as much as possible. I have tended to favour the flanking moves, and try to follow the mission objectives but I often find I don't have a strong enough force in the first instance to cover all the bases.

Regards #4, how do you assign a separate team to a CO? For example, can you reassign units on the fly? I must admit, I haven't read the manual!

Don't feel bad. I'm a Captain in the US Army and an Armor officer with 2 deployments to Iraq...this game kicks my ass on a daily basis.

I just got done playing the second mission of the first campaign. It was uuuuuuuugly. I'll leave it at that before I embarrass myself and degrade everyone's thoughts of military officers :-)

My tactical nuggets:

-Always attack with a 3:1 ratio in forces

-Never attack without a base of fire - Make it rain! Keep their heads down and maneuver your forces while the enemy is suppressed.

-Always over-kill your enemy - I can't tell you how many times that I THOUGHT I had wiped out an enemy squad only to find 1 or 2 survivors jump up and fire a burst at my guys as they cleared the objective. Use the 'assault' or 'hunt' commands while clearing enemy positions.

-Cut your enemy's retreat - One thing I noticed in CM:BN that is much different from CM:SF is that the enemy will be much more sensible about retreating. I've been in a few situations where the enemy fell back to another location and continued fighting.

-Don't lose your "Tactical Focus" - I'm often guilty of my own advice. Some of these missions are complicated. Constantly evaluate your mission and review your objectives. In most cases your objective is terrain-based, not enemy based. You don't have to kill every single enemy - don't waste time or your men's lives if you don't have to.

That's cracking advice there too. But it's a lot to absorb! One thing that I am seeing reguarly, like yourself, is the AI tactically withdrawing, rather than completely routing. It's difficult to tell precisely on Warrior mode, but I am guilty of B. I never over-kill these guys, and I've become a casualty as a result. In one such instance, I thought I had destroyed a HMG and I lost 12 men to the same team as I tried to cross a road. It turned out it there was only a couple of man left manning the gun in the end, but they inflicted heavy losses all the same. I was quite shocked and the AI had done its job rather well. I've also seen AI armour (Marder's) withdraw into safer positions after I targetted it with small arms, which surprised me. The AI does seem somewhat improved from times of old.

[womble]

Regards #4, how do you assign a separate team to a CO? For example, can you reassign units on the fly? I must admit, I haven't read the manual!

It's purely an 'administrative' thing. A Company's CO can provide direct C2 to elements from his company that are at the appropriate ranges, so you just have your 'chosen men' hang about in range of the captain, and don't worry that they're out of range of their nominal immediate superior, the platoon lieutenant.

Since we're offering tips, I'll point out that it is well worth making sure your fighting platoons that you want to keep going through taking fire and casualties are in command range of an officer who's got permission to motivate them. Without a leader, they will quickly become quivering ninnies who just want to go home, whereas with a lieutenant (or probably more likely his top kick) behind them, they'll fight like lions.

[phil stanbridge]

It's purely an 'administrative' thing. A Company's CO can provide direct C2 to elements from his company that are at the appropriate ranges, so you just have your 'chosen men' hang about in range of the captain, and don't worry that they're out of range of their nominal immediate superior, the platoon lieutenant.

Since we're offering tips, I'll point out that it is well worth making sure your fighting platoons that you want to keep going through taking fire and casualties are in command range of an officer who's got permission to motivate them. Without a leader, they will quickly become quivering ninnies who just want to go home, whereas with a lieutenant (or probably more likely his top kick) behind them, they'll fight like lions.

Okay I'm with you. I've also discovered the importance of effective C2. Even green troops can hold on slightly longer with a decent HQ. Out of interest, does it make more difference if the units have a + or - than the HQ?

[Apocalypse 31]

Aha! Another victim of "sort by name" I think! Though it's the first listed, Courage and Fortitude's second mission School of Hard Knocks seems to be accounted one of the most tricky of the scenarios supplied with the game. Losing lots of men in that one isn't anything to be embarrassed about.

Yes. Mission 2 from Courage and Fortitude.

That mission is nuts. The Germans are dug in, and aren't moving for crap. Not only that, but the enemy has mines, artillery and AT gun support that would make you want to rip your hair out.

I've also become frustrated with the amount of friendly forces I have to manage. At one point you're managing an entire battalion worth of forces. I dont like it, and I have trouble clicking that fast.

On a final note - I wish MG teams didn't consist of 2 separate teams. I really have found no use for a MG Ammo bearer team. I wish I could just consolidate them into one MG squad.

[womble]

Yes. Mission 2 from Courage and Fortitude.

That mission is nuts. The Germans are dug in, and aren't moving for crap. Not only that, but the enemy has mines, artillery and AT gun support that would make you want to rip your hair out.

There's a big thread about this mission here:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=98428

if you want to share other peoples' pain, as well as some pointers from those who've done it RT and WeGo and achieved some sort of positive result.

I've also become frustrated with the amount of friendly forces I have to manage. At one point you're managing an entire battalion worth of forces. I dont like it, and I have trouble clicking that fast.

I shudder to think how you can handle an entire battalion in realtime...

[MengJiao]

I shudder to think how you can handle an entire battalion in realtime...

It can be pretty horrible. I've gotten used to having Company C massacred because I often forget about them right after I move them up into spotting range of the enemy.

BOOM BOOM BOOM

[slysniper]

-Cut your enemy's retreat - One thing I noticed in CM:BN that is much different from CM:SF is that the enemy will be much more sensible about retreating. I've been in a few situations where the enemy fell back to another location and continued fighting.

This is a gem in advice. I have noticed this more in this game than any other also, really never worried about it before, in most games. But moving units into areas of retreat paths is very important in CMBN, even while playing just the AI I have noticed the same thing, Units pulling back setting up new locations, then costing me lives having to run into them again. It is much better to have units in flanking positions, ready, watching for the enemy to try to break or relocate and gun them down as they pull back. Puts a smile on ones face.

[phil stanbridge]

God I am not looking forward to that C&F campaign then! I almost exclusively play in WEGO which minimizes the issues of micro management as you take as long as you like. But I realise that is at the sacrifice of realtime movements and orders. It's a comprimise I'm prepared to make when you have battalion sized forces involved, although I have yet to see a CMBN battle which does utilize said forces.

[Hull down]

I have always had problems with spotters too. It seems very hard to get them in a forward position where they can see the enemy without being seen themselves. I move them forward on slow and keep them 'hidden' but I have been wondering if a hidden unit is less able to spot than one that is not hidden? If so, maybe a small target arc is a better choice?

I think one of the best tips I read early on was about double-clicking your company HQ (or other HQ) to highlight a bunch of troops, then giving them all cover arcs. I hate it when they glimpse someone across the map and pop off a shot.

I struggle with effectively using mortars. They are the biggest pain to, as someone said, work into the momentum of the game. They are always out of communication, taking forever to set up, doing their hair-- whatever, half the time I can't get the prima-donna's to do any work.

[herr_oberst]

I struggle with effectively using mortars. They are the biggest pain to, as someone said, work into the momentum of the game. They are always out of communication, taking forever to set up, doing their hair-- whatever, half the time I can't get the prima-donna's to do any work.

Mortars I have less trouble with... it's the remainder of the weapons company that gets unused.

Seems like each time I get the MGs situated, the momentum of the battle now has them out of LOS of where I'd like them to be firing.

So I try to leave them farther back for suppressive fire, and try to remember to watch each turn back at their position so I can get them to evade any incoming arty barrages.

[DavidFields]

I suppose its not an actual difference with CMx2 but I notice that the scenarios are all a lot longer than they were in CMx1 (on average).

As a result you do actually have the time to advance slowly and do proper recon and spotting. I'm yet to find that I'm under any time pressure. Funnily enough this is actually of of the hardest things to get used to.

The battlefield seems a lot more dangerous place than it was in CMx1 (whether it really is or that's just an illusion created by seeing individual men go down, I'm not sure) so you really need to be playing it a slower pace. But I still get that CMx1 "press on, press on" itch that always seems to take over.

Calling in arty forces you to slow down as it also seems to take a lot longer than it did in CMx1.

Absolutely my experience also. I have to remind myself not to try to move everything every turn. With the new spotting stuff, having squads stationary for a few turns is a great idea, and with 60-90 minute scenarios keeping a reserve is more important.

In my opinion, this all makes CM2 more interesting than CM1, and I am now totally sold on changing over.

As for Artillery/spotting, I don't have stuff left over because I use a lot of anything heavy for turn 1 bombardment--I think the TRP type accuracy of that is a bit almost overpowering. Granted, it can be annoying to shell something which might have no enemy in it--particularly missing foxholes that the AI intelligently places in non-woods areas--but the calculations inherent in that turn 1 bombadment are almost a game unto itself.

My guess is that the difficult spotting is WAD--historic for Normandy, and an attempt to force artillery to be less decisive. Having not played CMSF, I probably have more of a butcher's mentality when thinking about what casualties my pixeltruppen are going to need to absorb when capturing a strong-point. Again, going to the issue of time, I am finding that 4-5 turns of suppressive fire might still not render an enemy AT gun completely innocuous (even seeing the bullets bouncing off the gun shield!), or an enemy unit in bocage completely curled up. But such effort is still likely necessary, and flanking the enemy has been much more important than CM1, clearly a result (and a good one) of the very different game engine, where one is not just in a "probability field" of defensive cover, but where exact positioning of cover is noted.