No gunner in 251

[Aragorn2002]

I'm playing Le Desert. I order my squad to jump out of their 251 and notice that it means that no gunner is available anymore to man the MG 34. So that means when the squad is gone, with it the firepower of the 251 is gone too. All SPW are pretty useless when the squad has left the vehicle, aren't they?

[Pvt. Ryan]

It is my understanding that these vehicles are really meant for transportation and not fire support, so the only crew that remains is the driver. But you can load any other unit, even a single soldier who may be a sole survivor from a squad that was wiped out, and he will man the MG.

[Earl Grey]

That is a misconception - the vehicles WAS meant for fire support and there actually exists a pretty lengthy documetn exactly describing how a hallftrack is to be used under comabt circumstances.

[Raspu86]

That is a misconception - the vehicles WAS meant for fire support and there actually exists a pretty lengthy documetn exactly describing how a hallftrack is to be used under comabt circumstances.

Here you go

[MikeyD]

It may all depend on which 251 you're talking about. I just purchased a Pzgrenadier company. When I offloaded my squad a driver and MG operator was left behind. The 251/1 and 251/3 both. Aufklaurung (or however its spelled) 250/1, I unload the team and driver and MG gunner stay behind. Regimental Pioneer Company with 251/7, when I offload the troops there's no gunner staying behind.There's so many different German units in-game, it would take a while to pick through all of them.

[Battlefront.com]

This was a very tricky thing for me to deal with. Normally an armored transport vehicle crew and the passengers are all part of the same Squad. There are many reasons for this and it is the standard even with today's armored infantry formations.

Under most circumstances the Squad Leader would decide if one man should stay behind to man the MG or if he would be put to better use dismounting and acting as a rifleman. This presents a lot of challenges for the game and, by extension, the player (i.e. micromanagement headaches). Therefore, I had to make a choice as to which would be the normal circumstance.

In most cases it was better to leave a soldier in the Halftrack to man the MG, but not in all cases. I changed my mind about this a couple of times here and there during development. It is possible that a scenario didn't get updated correctly after a change. I suspect this is what Aragorn2002 is seeing in Le Desert.

Steve

[MikeyD]

Oh, and lets also remember when a scenario designer assign an 80% headcount to a particualr unit that means 20% of the guys aren't going to be showing up. Maybe it'll be the MG guy, maybe it won't.

[Dadekster88]

Just a thought, in the future is there maybe a way to have a popup similar to the way aquire ammo has for maybe a choice to leave a gunner behind or not? In a huge game probably not that big of a deal but in smaller battles a choice like that can be a huge difference. I am sure this is one of those things that is probably on your list but I would wager it's wayyyy down the list.

[Aragorn2002]

This was a very tricky thing for me to deal with. Normally an armored transport vehicle crew and the passengers are all part of the same Squad. There are many reasons for this and it is the standard even with today's armored infantry formations.

Under most circumstances the Squad Leader would decide if one man should stay behind to man the MG or if he would be put to better use dismounting and acting as a rifleman. This presents a lot of challenges for the game and, by extension, the player (i.e. micromanagement headaches). Therefore, I had to make a choice as to which would be the normal circumstance.

In most cases it was better to leave a soldier in the Halftrack to man the MG, but not in all cases. I changed my mind about this a couple of times here and there during development. It is possible that a scenario didn't get updated correctly after a change. I suspect this is what Aragorn2002 is seeing in Le Desert.

Steve

Okay, so normally a gunner stays behind. Thanks for the explanation. Great game btw.

[Champagne]

Awesome. Thanks for posting.

I could not help but notice that the SPWs in the training film are being used as panzer assault vehicles! They drive right up to the enemy and then the PzGdrs dismount.

That seems very dangerous given the fact that any Russian AntiTank rifle would have a great chance to penetrate the SPW and cause crew casualties. I thought that SPW usage would be much more conservative, given the lightness of the armor protection.

[MikeyD]

If you want someone to man an unmanned HT mg either find some layabout not doing anything useful (like a kubelwagen driver) or split the squad then load them onto the vehicle to man the gun. The main problem with the split squad is you can't usually split a team smaller than two

[Sgt Schultz]

Training films try to encourage behavior that will almost never be carried out on a battlefield.

Yes, halftracks were used as fire support.

No, they probably didn't roll right into the enemy's face with any regularity.

Exceptions would be in cases of over-running a formation, when you just roll right through broken or fleeing troops while mounted.

[MikeyD]

I was thinking the Russians had a nasty habit of fielding lots of anti-tank rifles. A gun meant to pierce 30mm(+-) of armor will go through 10-15mm HT hull like swiss Cheese.

[Aragorn2002]

Offensive or defensive, a halftrack should be able to defend itself in my mind, even when the squad wanders off to do other things.

[Waaarg]

Is there a difference between the SPW 250/1's? The first scenario of the German campagin, SPW 250/1 Halftrack 1, has one crew less - one passenger more than the other 3. Since it was mentioned that could be an oversight thought i'd mention it.

As well, the dismounts have been odd on this map, often going 40m to the map edge. I never recalled this in SF, and tested in a QB, and both passengers and crewed simply exited the vehicle. Not sure if this was an isolated case, due to morale or another variable.

[c3k]

Split out a scout section...

Or do what I do. Grab one of those XO teams and run 'em back and forth in front of the enemy until only one man is left. Then send him to man a machinegun. "XO" = eXtra Officers.