2 basic queries for returning CM player

[pcelt]

1 Once you have split a squad for some purpose what is the best way to reconstitute the squad later.

2 My mouse pointer clicks re movement and aiming often seem adjusted a litte in the game display--is this normal or is my setup in some way flawed.

Thanks for any clarifications re these 2 points

[stikkypixie]

1 Once you have split a squad for some purpose what is the best way to reconstitute the squad later.

2 My mouse pointer clicks re movement and aiming often seem adjusted a litte in the game display--is this normal or is my setup in some way flawed.

Thanks for any clarifications re these 2 points

1) Just move them to the same spot (square) and leave them there. Make sure you have the right half squads though (happens to me very often).

2) Yes, it's a bit the opposite of CMx1 where you could put your movement order and target order anywhere on the map, but the game basically ignores this and treats everything as more or less being the same spot no matter where the cursor is.

In the new engine, location is explicit but the movement and target orders are snapped to a grid. A long way of saying, yes this is normal . This can be a bit annoying if you want to target at weird angles, but 99% it works well.

[Zatoichi]

1 - have your split squads converge on the same action spot to rejoin with each other - usually only takes a few seconds.

2 - targeting and moves 'snap' to the centre of the 8mx8m action square, which can look a bit odd, but you'll soon get used to it.

[scottie]

i.e targeting snaps to grid but actually shoots at what you pointed at.

[c3k]

To help make sure you get the right squad parts (called "teams"), select one of the teams. Let's call it "Squad 1/Team A". Finding teams B and C could take awhile by the hunt and click method. Instead, use the keyboard "+" and "-" keys. "+" will go to "Squad 1/Team B"; another "+" will take you to C. I've found that's the best and quickest method to find the various teams which make up a squad. (Conversely, from team C, the "-" will cycle up to "B" then "A".)

The snap-to effect with movement and targeting: the terrain is a grid of 8mx8m squares. The movement paths snap to the center of the grid. The men will take up positions within that grid based on available cover. Use the Target command FACE to point them a certain way if that may help.

For TARGETING, the same snap-to-center effect occurs...if there is no enemy in Line of Sight. In that case, the Target is referred to as "area targeting". Your unit will spray fire throughout the targeted 8m x 8m tile. If you target an enemy unit, the target line will snap to and hold on that unit.

Hope that helps.

Ken

[stikkypixie]

Forgot to add that it is possible to fine tune the position of vehicle within a 8x8m tile.

[pcelt]

Many thanks to all for your comprehensive and really helpful set of clarifications.

Cheers

[akd]

You can also cause a squad to rejoin by moving the split teams into the same vehicle, or into the same floor of a building. Note that rejoining doesn't happen instantly; the split teams usually need to be idle for a few moments before they merge.

[Sgt Joch]

the other feature you will notice which was introduced in CMSF is that if you "area fire" an action spot, even though the target line points to the center, the weapon will rotate right-left and spray the entire action spot.

so for example, if you order a MG to area fire on the 2nd floor of a building, even though the target line is pointing to, say, the middle window, the MG will gradually work over the entire area, including any windows to the right or left.

[YankeeDog]

In that case, the Target is referred to as "area targeting". Your unit will spray fire throughout the targeted 8m x 8m tile.

One thing to be aware of is that, just like in CMx1, Area Fire is deliberately spread out more than aimed fire. So while the Area Target snaps to one specific 8m x 8m tile (as noted), the actual fire will be spread out wider than this. I've never bothered to figure out the exact extent of the spread, but it's at least the immediately adjacent tiles (so a 24m x 24m area).

And while you can't specifically order an MG to create grazing fire, since every bullet is tracked, you can effectively create grazing fire by ordering an MG to fire at a distant ground point along the bearing of the grazing fire you want. If enemy units try to move across this line of fire, they will be suppressed and may get hit.

[Nidan1]

Forgot to add that it is possible to fine tune the position of vehicle within a 8x8m tile.

where are my turns?

[Blackcat]

...

And while you can't specifically order an MG to create grazing fire, since every bullet is tracked, you can effectively create grazing fire by ordering an MG to fire at a distant ground point along the bearing of the grazing fire you want. If enemy units try to move across this line of fire, they will be suppressed and may get hit.

I didn't know this. What a spiffing effect. I must play with this, it seems to be the most significant advance in MG play since CMBB. Was this in CMSF? If so I curse myself for missing it and apologise to BF for all the names I have called them over MG modelling.

[YankeeDog]

I didn't know this. What a spiffing effect. I must play with this, it seems to be the most significant advance in MG play since CMBB. Was this in CMSF? If so I curse myself for missing it and apologise to BF for all the names I have called them over MG modelling.

Yep; it works in CMSF, too.

I don't think it's as effective as a real grazing fire plan would be, where the MG is deliberately set up and aimed to send bullets across a given arc, keeping the trajectory below about 4'. But it does work, and you will see enemy units take casualties if they try to move across the grazing zone, but not particularly close to the area fire aim point.

[Blackcat]

Yep; it works in CMSF, too.

I don't think it's as effective as a real grazing fire plan would be, where the MG is deliberately set up and aimed to send bullets across a given arc, keeping the trajectory below about 4'. But it does work, and you will see enemy units take casualties if they try to move across the grazing zone, but not particularly close to the area fire aim point.

Dang! Thanks, Mr. Dog, for your info. I really am quite miffed that I missed this in CMSF.

Just fancy, heavy MGs that can behave like heavy MGs - something that has always been missing from the CM series. With a neat use of the pause command it ought to be possible to recreate the two inch tap as well. Hot-dog! All we need know is indirect fire and the Vickers will actually come into its own, oh, and beaten zones of course.

Steve and the rest of the NF ganag, I am sorry for all the names I called you in the past. Thank you for giving us an approximation to grazing fire. Please could you add beaten zones for MGs, pretty please.

[Michael Emrys]

Please could you add beaten zones for MGs, pretty please.

I thought that was essentially what area fire was.

Michael

[YankeeDog]

I thought that was essentially what area fire was.

Michael

The difference is that properly sited grazing fire can create a long, deep zone that is difficult for infantry to move across; it's more about making it difficult for the enemy to move across a certain axis, than it is dropping bullets into a certain more or less circular area. CMx1 didn't simulate this is at all; the area fire effect was an approx. 50m circle around the aim point, and there was no suppressive or casualty effect beyond this.

In CMx2, an "Area Fire" order also targets a zone on the map that is more or less a circle (a few adjacent action spots, it seems). So you can't specifically order an MG to "interdict enemy movement along this axis". But since CMx2 does track the actual flight of each bullet in detail, the bullets may come close to or hit enemy units far away from the Area Fire aim point. So if you read the terrain correctly, and pick your target point carefully, you can kind of create a grazing fire zone.

It's tricky. It requires a careful reading of the terrain, and placement of the aim point. But it does work, at least to a degree. I actually discovered this by accident in CMSF when an enemy unit tried to cross the line of fire of an MG I had doing area fire into a target area much farther downrange, and the enemy took a couple of casualties and immediately went to ground.

[womble]

With a neat use of the pause command it ought to be possible to recreate the two inch tap as well.

I don't think it'll allow quite that, with the pause command. AIUI, the '2" tap' is a way of incrementally changing the aimpoint of the MG to 'walk' the beaten zone/lead stream from side to side. Given that interpretation, I think you'd need to shift the whole MG to another action point and set a new Area Target from that waypoint, which isn't quite the effect (I think) you had in mind...

Of course, you could be meaning a different sort of tap to what I'm considering...

[YankeeDog]

Yeah, unfortunately, you can't give an MG team more than one Area Fire order in a one-minute turn, unless you also give at least one movement order -- then you can give one area fire at the current position, and a second one at the destination. More waypoints will allow you do to more Area Fire plots. But this generally isn't practical for infantry MG teams. It does work well with vehicles; you can very effectively hose down a stretch of bocage with a Sherman's MGs, if you want to.

It's really just infantry heavy weapons teams like MG teams that get the shaft. You can spread out area fire from Infantry squads by splitting into teams. Of course, the team with the squad automatic weapon will put out the most fire, but it still works pretty well to spread a squad's fire across three area fire plots. AFAICT, no way to replicate this with MG teams, though.

[Zatoichi]

Yeah, unfortunately, you can't give an MG team more than one Area Fire order in a one-minute turn, unless you also give at least one movement order -- then you can give one area fire at the current position, and a second one at the destination.

Yep - which is why an area fire cover arc or ability to plot a linear area fire order a la artillery/mortars would be a really nice future enhancement.

[c3k]

Good ideas.

[Blackcat]

I don't think it'll allow quite that, with the pause command. AIUI, the '2" tap' is a way of incrementally changing the aimpoint of the MG to 'walk' the beaten zone/lead stream from side to side. Given that interpretation, I think you'd need to shift the whole MG to another action point and set a new Area Target from that waypoint, which isn't quite the effect (I think) you had in mind...

Of course, you could be meaning a different sort of tap to what I'm considering...

I had in mind the ability to "walk the stream". I was thinking that one could set point a for area fire with a pause command, then set set point B with another pause command and so on. Would this not work? I guess it won't as both you and Mr. Dog say it won't but I am not sure why - after all chaining orders together wth a pause command in between is a recognised Cmx2 technique.

[Cull]

Yep - which is why an area fire cover arc or ability to plot a linear area fire order a la artillery/mortars would be a really nice future enhancement.

Was just thinking this. Plot the arc and the MG will "rake" across any zones within the plotted arc. This would especially benefit WEGO players, but it seems like the logical way to do it regardless, so I'm assuming there's a reason they didn't.

[Zatoichi]

I had in mind the ability to "walk the stream". I was thinking that one could set point a for area fire with a pause command, then set set point B with another pause command and so on. Would this not work? I guess it won't as both you and Mr. Dog say it won't but I am not sure why - after all chaining orders together wth a pause command in between is a recognised Cmx2 technique.

Unfortunately, the chaining of orders currently relies on there being distinct movement orders to hang each pause off, and moving an MG team will cause them to redeploy their weapon each time.

[YankeeDog]

Unfortunately, the chaining of orders currently relies on there being distinct movement orders to hang each pause off, and moving an MG team will cause them to redeploy their weapon each time.

This. One way to fix this issue in the current interface without addition a new command would be to create the ability to do a "null movement" order -- that is, give the player the ability to plot a waypoint right on top of the unit's current location, or another waypoint. Then you could add pause orders, and shift Area Fire targets, without actually moving the unit.

[Zatoichi]

Was just thinking this. Plot the arc and the MG will "rake" across any zones within the plotted arc. This would especially benefit WEGO players, but it seems like the logical way to do it regardless, so I'm assuming there's a reason they didn't.

Well, I'm guessing it would take a long time to balance this ability and get the AI to use it as well, or it could basically change the entire way that battles are fought, and not necessarily in a good way.

Or maybe something else entirely - like they don't want to add more buttons to the UI now, and they are waiting for a future release for the planned UI overhaul.

Or, or, or!