Please Help - Closing the pocket

[WillLight]

I have tried this mission as the germans many times already and all I'm getting better at is swearing. My Panthers get mauled as soon as they show their face over the ridge, my infantry squad rattle at the sound of a shot, and I'm basically getting nowhere fast. I've tried the tactics described in the AAR, but maybe I'm using the right tactics but executing them badly... Does anyone have the patience/inclination to describe in more detail how they are playing this mission??? Pretty please?

[crowbar]

I tend to push all infantry and sdfz 234/1 s down right flank - but hate the low hedge - (there should be a least one gap) your infantry do get panned by all the brownings unless they are suppressed well

leaving only mortars mgs and spotters on crest

marders its a case of sidle up behind a tree near the crest slowly

panthers I ve tried racing into the commune a bust - and crest hunting

boy do I miss the cmbb search for hull down command - otherwise you have to realtime micromanage exactly where your afvs go and hope they dont decide to do a pathfinding 180 degree turn showing their ass to the yanks!

[Rokko]

Also reposition the HMGs in the setup phase. I've found the original positions to be not very good, since there's essentially no good LOS on any place in the village. I only put 2 of the PSW to the right flank, the other two I kept behind the crest and moved them up once the 57mm ATGs were spotted and suppressed or taken out, so they could aid the frontal assault with their 20mm guns, which I found quite effective.

I didn't lose a single Panther, only one Marder to the American tanks. I guess finding hull down positions is the way to go. Most of the tanks were spotted by my HMGs anyway, even if my tanks had LOS on their positions they wouldn't spot them.

A good way to find a hull down positions is to pause, move the camera to the position of the enemy tank and zoom all the way in (hotkey: X or C, not sure). If you see the hull of your Panther, reverse. Also covered arcs and Hunt help spotting I believe.

[LemoN]

Here's what I did on the first play-through (and successive ones too) and achieved total victory.

Wide spread of 105's onto the village, 81mm mortars medium-medium on the left flank houses and the patch of trees, 81mm smoke barrage in front of the second hedge-line.

Have both infantry platoons lie in cover behind the ridge and shift the PSW's to the left flank and centre (I ignore the right flank) and as soon as the bombardment is going I send the first platoon in down to the first row of hedges. In the meantime the smoke mortar has run dry and I use it to lay a barrage on the bunch of trees to the right side of the village.

By this time the 105 barrage has usually ended and I send the second infantry platoon to the first line of hedges and send the first platoon to the second line of hedges. As soon as the second platoon has arrived at their destination I let the first platoon assault the houses and clear the first set of them. After that I use the second platoon to clear the rest of the village.

All while doing this I kept the left flank PSW's on the ridge to provide suppressive fire on the left flank with the centre PSW's going right down the tree-line to provide close support for the infantry.

As soon as the Panthers show up I position them on top of the ridge to take out anything that attempts to rush to the village. I keep them there until the Marders arrive, of which I rush three over to the right flank and use one to replace the two panthers on the ridge.

I then send down the Panthers to mop up anything left in the village and kill any tanks that come too close.

Result: Total victory

1xPSW lost

8x infantry casualties

[bodkin]

Hey mate,

Good to see your keeping up our standard from the preview day.

Start by laying down a heavy artillery mission on the village to stun the defenders.

At the same time lay down a smoke barrage with your mortars infront of the town allowing the panzergrenadiers a chance to rush into good positions close to the village.

When the Panthers arrive get them in hull down positions on the hill on the left side of the map and let them wait there and kill the US armour as it arrives. The armoured cars can be brought into the wooded area infront of the town for fire support.

Following these basic tactics you should win easily, I didn't really need the Marders.

[scottie]

for me:

- pre bombard town

- lay smoke using 81mms

- rush infantary down centre (2 platoons iirc)

- covering fire from armoured cars into flank buildings

- mgs on flanks

- panthers facing forward from cover , same with SPGs

Worked first time , not played as Germans since.

Training mission as the US on the other hand i am enjoying ... can play without any loses now .... CMSF esq.

[DeLaVega]

I also had problems with the infantry..

The Panthers took out all US armor, resulting in one Panther immobilized. Although I waited really long until I sent the infantry in they got caught in enough suppressive fire to stop them in the wooded area in front of the village. For the moment they were useless, I had no idea about how much US infantry is still in fighting shape and how many were still holding their "fortified" positions. I only saw a lot of question marks and had not a single identified american unit throughout the village.

With the infantry refusing to advance I used the Marder`s to put area fire on the buildings in their sight and sent the Panther into the village on a suicide mission. I raced him to the spot behind the graveyard near the chapel, right in the middle of the village... and literally surprised the US infantry, which had retreated before to the graveyard area, and the two mortar units. While the Panther took them out one by one the area fire of the Marder`s forced so many US platoons to retreat and, of course, while they were retreating they crossed the line of sight of the Panther.

After a while my own infantry recovered and in the moment they were advancing the AI surrendered.

Actually I wanted to quit the scenario after my infantry attack was stopped in its tracks, so the Panther rush was supposed to be my final move born out of desperation. Probably not a text-book attack, but a nice example of how you can turn the tide with something "creative"... :-)

[Chek]

I also had problems with the infantry..

The Panthers took out all US armor, resulting in one Panther immobilized. Although I waited really long until I sent the infantry in they got caught in enough suppressive fire to stop them in the wooded area in front of the village. For the moment they were useless, I had no idea about how much US infantry is still in fighting shape and how many were still holding their "fortified" positions. I only saw a lot of question marks and had not a single identified american unit throughout the village.

With the infantry refusing to advance I used the Marder`s to put area fire on the buildings in their sight and sent the Panther into the village on a suicide mission. I raced him to the spot behind the graveyard near the chapel, right in the middle of the village... and literally surprised the US infantry, which had retreated before to the graveyard area, and the two mortar units. While the Panther took them out one by one the area fire of the Marder`s forced so many US platoons to retreat and, of course, while they were retreating they crossed the line of sight of the Panther.

After a while my own infantry recovered and in the moment they were advancing the AI surrendered.

Actually I wanted to quit the scenario after my infantry attack was stopped in its tracks, so the Panther rush was supposed to be my final move born out of desperation. Probably not a text-book attack, but a nice example of how you can turn the tide with something "creative"... :-)

Love it

very much in the spirit of the Panzer greats

[LemoN]

I'd say your main error was that you waited until the tanks arrived.

The thing I found works best in both scenarios is speed, speed and more speed!

Use arty to stun the defenders and then immediately advance and rain down hell on any suspected enemy position. You should be able to get into the village even before the US side gets their 105mm spotter. Same with busting the bocage, 105's on the right flank and rush through as quickly as possible, using your Shermans to suppress the hedges. You should get to the German HKL as soon as the 105's end, which is around 10 minutes time. After the arty stops advance to the next hedge and keep the momentum going. So far I've only taken losses if I let my advance stall. Never give the other side even a short moment to catch breath and recover. This also keeps your forces safe from arty.

[para]

Playing as axis is fairly straightforward i'm sure you would all agree. I would like to hear how you guys did as allies on this map. Best i have done playing RT on Iron setting is a tactical defeat. The panthers are as tough as teak!

[Chainsaw]

I got total victory defending as US. Lost most of my infantry platoon but no 57mm and only 1 M4. this in WeGo. The enemy arty really pounded me hard, most of my infantry was ready to run even before the german infantry arrived. I had to retreat (or see my pixeltruppen reatreat) to behind the church before the M4s came along and restored the situation.

[para]

I got total victory defending as US. Lost most of my infantry platoon but no 57mm and only 1 M4. this in WeGo. The enemy arty really pounded me hard, most of my infantry was ready to run even before the german infantry arrived. I had to retreat (or see my pixeltruppen reatreat) to behind the church before the M4s came along and restored the situation.

Where did you place your guns? How did you dispose of the German armour, especially the 2xpanthers?

I have tried withdrawing INf to the ditch but the Germans occupy the Command Post in numbers. Which basically gives them the advantage of good cover against a counter attack. When i bring up or expose my armour the bloody panthers make short work of them from distance.

[crowbar]

only trouble is after replaying the scenario so many times you have a good idea where those us atg and everything else is going to be set up

not stonking the locations until they get spotted is a tough road

[LemoN]

Playing as axis is fairly straightforward i'm sure you would all agree. I would like to hear how you guys did as allies on this map. Best i have done playing RT on Iron setting is a tactical defeat. The panthers are as tough as teak!

Total victory.

[para]

Total victory.

basic training?

[scottie]

Playing as axis is fairly straightforward i'm sure you would all agree. I would like to hear how you guys did as allies on this map. Best i have done playing RT on Iron setting is a tactical defeat. The panthers are as tough as teak!

Playing as the Allies i really enjoyed this scenario. Managed to keep the Germans out of the village using mortars (105s too) for the most part but cannot remember the victory types sorry. (Keep a platoon in reserve in the gully ready to plug gaps). Keep other platoon in buildings narrow away from direct cannon fire.

Racing shermans to the left cross roads (as seen from allied side) victory location i have flanking shot on an german inf attack and the Panthers , then the TDs at the otherside (allied top right) of the map looking for a side shot if they (panthers) take the bait ... works well if they do. If not the shermans chew up the infantry attacking the village.

Trouble i have been finding is the Panthers wont move far off the hill , they stick there in overwatch even when the inf attack grinds to a hault. They never move in and attempt to grab a victory location .... maybe the TAC AI assesses the risk as too high with flanking Sherman.

[bodkin]

Scottie,

I think there are several different AI plans because I've had the Panthers attack down the flanks after a while which actually made them more vulnerable to tube guys.

[Chainsaw]

Where did you place your guns? How did you dispose of the German armour, especially the 2xpanthers?

I have tried withdrawing INf to the ditch but the Germans occupy the Command Post in numbers. Which basically gives them the advantage of good cover against a counter attack. When i bring up or expose my armour the bloody panthers make short work of them from distance.

I left one 57mm on the left side behind the church in a low-line (think it was default setup there?) and the other on the very right hand last building, covering the right area. it nailed a Marder (both survived the fight!)

I sent my Shermans rushing down the village as covered as possible so they got inside the village and therefore covered against the panthers (exept for one that never arrived, the one I lost)

The panthers got finished by my M10s. I put them in overwatch on the ridgeline behind the village, 3 out of the 4 M10s found the panther first and fired at it, after 6 rounds it was KO. the 2nd panther was diposed of in the same way with 7 or 8 rounds hitting it in short session so they abonded it, the minute after it was brewed up by a last round from the M10s.

I called down arty fire on pretty much my own positions (as most of my infantry had died or retreated back) and the orchard, after that I moved in 2 shermans and mopped up whatever was left of the germans.

[scottie]

Tell you what though , the game offers so much more playing it using the Turned Based option it really does. Only way to appreciate the little details , watch what the units do , see what rounds hit and from where. You just cannot get this from the Realtime option IMO , even although Realtime can offer that quick excitement fix.

[LemoN]

basic training?

Iron. :cool:

[para]

It is a good challenge as allies and i'm really enjoying it. Sooner or later the Axis will pay dearly for their arrogance.

[GhostRider3/3]

**Spoiler Alert**

Freaking AI is pretty damn good. "Closing the Pocket" First played as Germans. All in all I decided to go straight up the middle with my infantry.

1. Started with a barrage of Mortar fire in the orchard 'linear" and where I thought I would hide a AT gun on the edge of town. SE side.... Also began a Barrage to the Town with my 105mm Artillery... Actually must have had a good spot.. came in Heavy and anhilated alot from the looks of the After Action review..

2. After the Artillery the Panthers arrived, They began pinpoint direct HE fire on MG positions in town.

3. The Marder III's arrived and I positioned all but 1 of them on the East side... with 1 Panther ( The other Panther had already made a fast track to the woodline to the West...and was hunting. The other Marder III headed due west to provide more assistance to the other Panther.

4. HUGE Fire fight breaks out upon discovering the M-10's and Shermans. they were coming from the SW, Middle, and 2 Shermans from the SE.... Lost 1 PSW during this time to the west side of the Village. 1 Panther took a few hits but proceeded to take out 3 tanks before loosing optics and Comms. The 3 Marder's on the same side took out another 2 M10's while the other Panther took out the last remaining US tanks. The tank Battle lasted about 4 minutes.

5. I started recieving prep and spotting rounds to two MG squads. before I knew it they were getting pelted with 105rnds and injured a partial Marder III crew.

6. I manueverd my men and my Smoke rounds were inbound to the town.... My Infantry engaged what was left of the US infantry forces...and my Panther Tanks engaged the remaining ATG and basically flanked the town with direct HE fire.... Needless to say it was a German total victory.

It was super cool seeing the action up close.. Freaking amazing.. Playing as the Americans was even funner... to be continued.

[PondScum]

Playing as the Americans on Warrior, I used my mortars and 105mm to do the dirty work. Opening barrage of harass/maximum 60mm mortar fire on the central woods marking the likeliest German advance to slow them down. Then plotted a medium/maximum 60mm fire pattern between the first and second hedges they had to cross, which caused 57 casualties as German troops went to ground. Then my 105mm FO arrived, and I sprinted him on foot to the top of the ridge to get a bare LOS into the same area. A pattern of 2 tubes/light/maximum gives you something like 20 turns with 4 shells arriving per turn. By now none of the German troops were prepared to move, so they were slaughtered. I counted just one guy who made it past the 3rd hedge.

In case this had failed, I split my squads up into individual teams, and occupied pretty much every floor of every building on the flanks, counting on dispersed firepower to cover all the angles. Didn't occupy the center buildings, since they are exposed to massive fire from the front - the German squads have multiple LMGs and SMGs, which can quickly overmatch your American squads with Garands. I also kept the MG squads back, covering keyholed lines of approach.

I left my 57mm AT guns in the setup positions, and they got lucky, killing all four armored cars. I then sprinted the three 75mm Shermans down the left flank into town: lost one to a hail-mary Panzerschreck shot, but the other two sidled up next to buildings and machine-gunned anything that was still moving. I kept the two 76mm Shermans and the four Hellcats behind the ridge, waiting for an opportunity against the six German tanks in overwatch. To improve the odds I lifted the 105mm barrage, and replotted a point-target/4-tubes/heavy/quick 105mm barrage against one Panther. After waiting for 7 minutes, eight shells landed, two of them directly on top of it - scratch one Panther.

Eventually the German AI started moving out of overwatch positions, sending one Panther down the hill and two Marders down to the bridge. My 57mm gun on the right, cowering with just two men alive after a mortar barrage, nevertheless managed to pick off one Marder in overwatch (and was promptly destroyed by return fire). I then hunted all six of my 76mm tanks over the ridge, and traded a Sherman and a Hellcat for two remaining Marders and the Panther - that Panther died hard, taking multiple partial penetrations and side penetrations. Finally I raced my last 76mm Sherman in behind the last Marder, hidden in woods at the bridge: they never saw each other till they were 30m apart. Sherman crew were so surprised they missed two point-blank shots, but their machine-gun fire caused the Marder crew to bail. The Sherman, clearly rattled, then pumped in more rounds till the Marder brewed up, and fired into another knocked-out Marder up the hill

[TrailApe]

It's just like Christmas came early isn't it?

[Kauz]

Parallell setting the 105mm arti barrage in "area" fire on the town-center or the first house line ("line") and smoking with mortar a long line parallell to the house-lines (on the first hedge position of enemy inf).

After 1-2 minutes (when smoke wall established) i rush the first hedges-line i can see.

The barrage and smoke provides enough supressing and especially spotting protection to rush with "quick"- order downhill with ALL infantry and ALL "PSW 234". You may have no losses!!!

With the 4x PSW 234 and the artillery you can generate enough suppressing fire on the hedges and houses to advance with parts of infantry to the next hedge line (using "Assault" or "quick" order).

Then use all units on maps to kill and suppress the house positions then (area fire with PSW if you do not see anyone). Reunite your complete infanty.

Then assault with about 1-2 infantry squad the easiest house defender positions you can find......and so on...

Always follow with your PSW´s...

If it works well you may need only 5 Minutes to get next/into first house(s).

In about 8 Minutes you can have about 2-4 Houses.

That should be possible with extremly low looses.

The Panthers take the classical postion in hull down position on the hill next to the spawn-point.

Try to open the turret hatch always and establish fire area...so they spot enemy early.

If you have the chance and one Panther is enough on the hill.....rush downhill with the other one and take the bridge. you can provide flank support and you are able to move later into flank of foe´s tank-spawn-hill if you feel courageous (by following the street on left side).

The Marders should always drive, stick and fight together.

-If enemy attacks your right flank. Take all Marders and drive from spawn to other side of start area---> take position on hill--->kill enemy in distance fight and then you can engage slowly downhill direction crossroad with 1-2 of your Marders.

- If enemy tanks spread out over their whole hill, split your marders in 2 groups.

1 take position next to your Panther and support the distance fight.

the other should drive right flank of the starter hill and do the same from there.

After 2 rounds you always should change position with marders (cause of enemy artillery)

I played it about 4 times, one time was iron...)

Here my last fight (basic) :

Total victory 160:1000