poesel Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Disclaimer: I know this is a one time evidence in a video of a several weeks old beta version of the game. This issue may very well already being moot. There is one scene in the VAAR where two shermans drive into each other and the models intersect (clipping). This kills very much the suspension of disbelief for this scene. AFAIK getting the pathfinding for an AI is difficult while collision detection is not (this game should even excel at high speed collision detection . If I could choose I would rather have the tanks bumping into each other and going nowhere than clipping and getting somewhere. The former I can blame on the stupid tank drivers (which makes it a 'human' problem so I stay 'in game'), the latter I can only blame on the game programing itself (which takes me out of the game). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetori Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Disclaimer: I know this is a one time evidence in a video of a several weeks old beta version of the game. This issue may very well already being moot. There is one scene in the VAAR where two shermans drive into each other and the models intersect (clipping). This kills very much the suspension of disbelief for this scene. AFAIK getting the pathfinding for an AI is difficult while collision detection is not (this game should even excel at high speed collision detection . If I could choose I would rather have the tanks bumping into each other and going nowhere than clipping and getting somewhere. The former I can blame on the stupid tank drivers (which makes it a 'human' problem so I stay 'in game'), the latter I can only blame on the game programing itself (which takes me out of the game). I don't know but I didn't react as it could be the effect of the relative spotting. Ie the tank was probably not identified 100% and so the position could be off by several meters with the currently selected spotter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Disclaimer: I know this is a one time evidence in a video of a several weeks old beta version of the game. This issue may very well already being moot. There is one scene in the VAAR where two shermans drive into each other and the models intersect (clipping). This kills very much the suspension of disbelief for this scene. AFAIK getting the pathfinding for an AI is difficult while collision detection is not (this game should even excel at high speed collision detection . If I could choose I would rather have the tanks bumping into each other and going nowhere than clipping and getting somewhere. The former I can blame on the stupid tank drivers (which makes it a 'human' problem so I stay 'in game'), the latter I can only blame on the game programing itself (which takes me out of the game). It something that happens and if I understood correctly will remain in the game as it is not that easy to deal with (given the time/budget constraints). It also exists in CMSF and in 99% of the time you don't see. Maybe that is the reason why it stands out . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vein Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Is this not because there is still an amount of abstract positioning going on. Although the units are 1:1 their position within a single 'action spot' is abstracted. So the tanks could both be in the 8m sq (I think) action spot but not in the exact position as depicted by the 3d models. I'll add another 'I think' in here just to ram home my uncertainty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Is this not because there is still an amount of abstract positioning going on. Although the units are 1:1 their position within a single 'action spot' is abstracted. So the tanks could both be in the 8m sq (I think) action spot but not in the exact position as depicted by the 3d models. I'll add another 'I think' in here just to ram home my uncertainty. I believe you are wrong on this. The positioning is not abstract as the hit calculations depend on where the polygons of the shell and the polygons of the tank model intersect. No point in making stuff 1:1 and then having abstract position I reckon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vein Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I don't know. I know it has been mentioned (and playing CM:SF confirms this) that the SPOTTING is from action point to action point and NOT from model to model so... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I don't know. I know it has been mentioned (and playing CM:SF confirms this) that the SPOTTING is from action point to action point and NOT from model to model so... The action spots are a map that says whether or not it makes sense to do a spotting check. That way computer power can be saved. No point in doing a spotting check from the foot a of a hill to the other side of that hill. If it does makes sense to do a spotting check, then a finer spotting mechanism kicks in. The target line available to the player does not always give all the information or nuance of the situation. And if you observe infantry squads you'll often see situations where only one or two guys are shooting while the others cannot see the target. The positioning is most definitely 1:1 (that or I have learned nothing from reading these forums). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I don't know. I know it has been mentioned (and playing CM:SF confirms this) that the SPOTTING is from action point to action point and NOT from model to model so... That too is incorrect. Or rather, only half correct. The crude spotting is from action spot to action spot at first to save CPU cycles, but does get resolved to 1:1 if the action spot check gives the thumbs up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vein Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Aha! Cool. That does then make it a little worrying that tanks go through one another. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm pretty sure that the clipping in that video is a result of an unfortunate set of circumstances rather than the norm - a narrow lane with a bunch of burning tanks and extremely limited manoeuvrability, plus the AI plans given to the tanks seemingly converging on that one rather congested spot. I certainly don't see this kind of thing very often in CMSF, so I'd be really surprised if it was happening more often in CMBN. You still can have the dreaded 'After you.' 'No, after you.' 'No, I insist, after you!' thing happen when when a bunch of vehicles bump into each other, but this has been addressed in subsequent CMSF patches to the point where it really doesn't happen that often either. So yeah, it's the exception rather than the rule I expect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger33 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I have played a lot of CMSF in the last few weeks and can't recall any clipping at all, definitely nothing that bad. Most likely a freak occurrence. The vehicles bumping into each other does happen occasionally but can be avoided if you are paying attention. Usually I only see it when I'm being lazy and give 5+ vehicles the same move orders and the lines get all criss-crossed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 IIRC the soft edges tanks is actually a feature. In the first days of SF it was found to be a hindrance so some “give” was worked in. This isn’t just for the player but the AI as otherwise you end up with tanks piling up at a bottleneck and the AI, as it works on a unit level, being unable to unjam them. The LOS map works from centre to centre of each 8x8m action spot. This is like a trigger to the engine to say “look here”. The engine then examines the units on a cm2 basis to see if LOS is possible, then applies the spotting rules to that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The odd bit of clipping is nothing to worry about surely..if it happens in CMSF I've not noticed as either it doesn't happen or I'm to engrossed in the game... As I haven't noticed and if it does happen then it will be rarely and minor.... No game is perfect...none...some are better than others and some are alot better than the rest...this will be alot better than the rest...but like any game you could go through it with a fine tooth comb to find all it's little faults if you like...but to me thats pointless...as long as there are no game breaking bugs and the game offers huge amount of enjoyment then I'm more than happy... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'll repeat myself from the other thread: I see this rarely, not often enough for it to be an issue. The vast majority of the time vehicles will stop a few meters short of an obstructing vehicle and wait for them to get out of the way. The scenario in question is somewhat unusual in that it crams a lot of shermans in tiny spaces, and the likelihood of seeing it is higher. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'll repeat myself from the other thread: I see this rarely, not often enough for it to be an issue. The vast majority of the time vehicles will stop a few meters short of an obstructing vehicle and wait for them to get out of the way. The scenario in question is somewhat unusual in that it crams a lot of shermans in tiny spaces, and the likelihood of seeing it is higher. I'll second that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 A lot of the vehicle clipping issues can be avoided by the scenario designer, with the sensible placement of AI Orders, and limiting the number of vehicles assigned to a particular AI Group within the Editor. Also, units can be assigned as reinforcements, since the number of AI Groups are limited to 8. This prevents to many vehicles from trying to move to the same spot on the map at once. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.