Am I doing something wrong?

[ShatterBone]

Hello. I own all the CMSF modules, but have never managed to get into it all very thoroughly. I bought the NATO pack and have finally been working on learning the game and putting some serious time into it.

I've started with the Canadian campaign, but it's all going a bit wrong for my command skills. I've played through the first few mission four or five times each so far, but I'm getting hosed and haven't managed a single victory yet.

I've tried various tactics so far, but I've had the most luck with killing anything in the open with vehicles, then advancing into urban areas with dismounts and vehicles behind for support.

The severity of my losses in terms of score at end of missions makes me wonder if I'm missing anything really obvious? I've read all the manuals.

Thanks

[Moon]

Unlearn what worked in the usual RTS games, and instead start thinking in terms of real people, real world situations and tactics.

Take your time, and pay attention.

Personally, I suggest playing WeGo first before tackling real-time. This will take the urge away to do the usual point-and-click "tactics"* that work in unrealistic RTS games. It will also help you "getting in close" to the action and notice the little things.

*)One common mistake by newbies is that they tend to simply throw numbers at the enemy. This works in RTS games, but won't work here. Before rushing the enemy, hose known or suspected positions with fire. Then hose them some more. Then pour serious fire onto them. Then unleash really a lot of fire on them. Then, and only then, rush in

[ChrisND]

A few important things that will serve you well in almost every NATO mission.

- Take it slowly. Very slowly. In the campaign missions especially, you are better off missing a secondary objective than taking too many casualties.

- Leverage your superior firepower. If you even suspect there is fire coming from a building and the area is cleared for fire support, blast the crap out of it with your mortars. Set the Helos to Light/Personnel, with Area Fire orders elsewhere, away from your troops. They will hunt down enemy forces and engage them with their chain guns on their own. This is safe to do with zones that are denied to artillery. Don't be afraid to set your squads to Area Fire a building that you received fire from for several minutes.

- Use smoke to cover the maneuver element when there is a high chance they will be fired on.

- Try to engage the smallest number of enemy possible with the largest portion of your force possible. This can be done by moving only a few units forward at a time, with the rest of the force providing overwatching fire support. If anyone opens up on your guys that are moving, then your entire force can engage them. A corollary is that you want to avoid moving your advancing guys into an area where the overwatch cannot help them.

[sawomi]

Don't think so much about how to win this, but think much more about how to survive this.

First law: Best to kill with arty.

Second Law: Never think in the way of 'I want to find someone to shoot', but always 'I dont' want to be found and shoot' on a modern battlefield.

Every little ditch, all the flora the hills and the rocks are your friends and so is smoke.

Only in 'hide'-status a pixelsoldat is a happy pixelsoldat.

Third Law: If you actually have to move, do it has hidden as possible and with as few units at once as possible. There should be lot's of concealed pixelbuddys behind and a little above with good few ahead and with lot's of guns ready. The bigger the caliber and faster the cadence so much the better.

[Erwin]

You have to be very patient and usually very slow in this game. Sometimes the best thing to do is call for air support or arty to cover an area, and sit back and wait the five minutes of so it takes to arrive.

This is not so much a "game" as a simulation, and that can mean it is frustrating for players who are used to faster moving game type software, shooters etc.

Think of this a game of snipers - even when you have armor.

[Lethaface]

Being not new to CMSF, I find it difficult to keep c2 links with Nato forces. For example the dutch CV9035 platoon with attached company HQ in the second mission of the dutch campaign.

None of the soldiers has a radio, so keeping the company HQ in the ride means no c2 to the squads. HQ out of the ride means no c2 with the rides.

Even the Syrian platoon HQ's have radios iirc, same goes for the company HQ's (!). Feel like living in a 3rd world country now

[MeatEtr]

The spacebar pauses the game in Real Time so you can change or edit your orders at any time. A real life saver.

However, in RT, I try not to engage or keep contact with the enemy in no more than two separate areas. So a two pronged attack is manageable, but anything more and you will miss important things somewhere.

[vincere]

Before rushing the enemy, hose known or suspected positions with fire. Then hose them some more. Then pour serious fire onto them. Then unleash really a lot of fire on them. Then, and only then, rush in

I still frequently underestimate how much lead an HE is needed to clean a building or other area. As moon suggests, when you think that you have supressed enough, go on and throw some more at... Hmm must remember this myself

[MeatEtr]

I still frequently underestimate how much lead an HE is needed to clean a building or other area. As moon suggests, when you think that you have supressed enough, go on and throw some more at... Hmm must remember this myself

Speaking of which, be quick afterwards getting a squad in there. The enemy sometimes, depending on quality and HQ contact, can rally from taking fire pretty quick. The beauty of RT is that you can literally get a squad in there like five seconds after ceasing fire. In turnbased mode this is much harder to to.

[ChrisND]

Speaking of which, be quick afterwards getting a squad in there. The enemy sometimes, depending on quality and HQ contact, can rally from taking fire pretty quick. The beauty of RT is that you can literally get a squad in there like five seconds after ceasing fire. In turnbased mode this is much harder to to.

It's worth noting that for small arms fire it has gotten easier in WEGO. Your troops will automatically cancel all area fire orders when friendlies enter the building tile. So you can have a squad or MG keep their heads down while another assaults. To make it even more effective, give the assaulting squad an Assault order right outside the building, with an Area Fire order. They throw a volley of grenades or two seconds before one team enters the building and their area fire order is canceled.

[MikeyD]

A good rule of thumb is "If I wouldn't do that in real life I shouldn't to it in the game". No rounding the bald crast of a hill with enemy on the other side, no rushing blindly down a street without checking for enemy first, etc. Another useful hint is "If it feels like 'cheating' then do it." Cover you advance with smoke. Do recon-by-fire against buildings. Use artillery instead of troops. If you locate an enemy strongpoint avoid them instead of fight them. Throw grenades into buildings before entering just-in-case.

[Boche]

clearing rooms has become so much easier now with the area fire clearing, in the first german mission, where in RT 1.2 i would have personally lost 10 or more KIA, i only lost 5 KIA (3 in IED) and about 6 WIA, which for my standards in MOUT wasnt bad, it all helped.

[Kat Johnston]

I'm a reasonably experienced player and started with the Dutch and Canadian campaigns - I did really badly, crashed out on the 3rd and 2nd missions respectively. I've found the German campaign much easier - though not easy - so far!

For your armour, the only thing you can rely on is that your Leo 2s have a good chance of surviving tank fire, autocannon fire and older ATGMs / RPGs over the frontal arc only, and a chance (had a pretty good survival rate from RPG29 and AT14 hits, but it's not a chance you should willingly take) of surviving newer ATGM and RPG fire over the frontal arc. Don't ever expose them to flank fire. Whichever IFVs and APCs you are using can't be expected to survive anything heavier than HMG fire (sometimes not even that) - again, in practice, most of them will stand up to autocannon fire for a little while and sometimes they'll survive RPG hits, but it's not a chance you should take. Try to put your armoured vehicles in positions where they have a line of sight to whatever you want them to shoot at, and preferably line of sight to nowhere else the enemy are likely to be. You can use buildings and other terrain to cover the flanks of the vehicles.

If one of your vehicles is hit by anything heavy and survives the attack, move it to shelter immediately, don't treat the survival as proof that it's okay where it is.

[LJFHutch]

In the German campaign I got pretty attached to my guys, in one mission I lost half a squad to an RPG and thought "bugger that!" and I let loose every 155mm shell on the village, didn't take any more fire

Another thing is to remember what you're fighting and what you have. If the enemy is lightly armed I tend to use the MBT's as bullet magnets to discover the enemy locations, then I pour fire on them and advance my lighter stuff up. After that anything that looks suspicious receives about 10 seconds of continuous fire from everything in sight - usually a lot

[Boche]

In the German campaign I got pretty attached to my guys, in one mission I lost half a squad to an RPG and thought "bugger that!" and I let loose every 155mm shell on the village, didn't take any more fire

Another thing is to remember what you're fighting and what you have. If the enemy is lightly armed I tend to use the MBT's as bullet magnets to discover the enemy locations, then I pour fire on them and advance my lighter stuff up. After that anything that looks suspicious receives about 10 seconds of continuous fire from everything in sight - usually a lot

yeah sounds familiar , with germany every soldier you loose is a hinderance

thats the thing, draw fire from a distance, pummel it, movin closer, pummel it abit more and storm!

[finalcut]

And watch where you call in an airstrike.I am in the German campaign,and lost 11 guys to a badly placed CAS run from my Tornado.Only lost 13 on the whole mission,11 to friendly fire is not cool.

[ShatterBone]

Thanks for the tips. I've been advancing much more slowly now, putting lots of fire down on any positions that shoot at me. The battles go better, with my casualties staying much lower and in some cases, just single digits.

Now I just need to search for that illusive win. :cool:

[Lethaface]

Sometimes it can be a good idea to move a large part of your force in order to attack from another angle. In that case use artillery smoke(preferred) or vehicle smoke to cover the maneuver and use a quick or fast move with everyone mounted in their vehicles to the new spot.

Especially when attacking a urban area across open ground or when facing ATGM ambushes this can pay off nicely. Vehicles moving at high speed are harder to hit so if if your destination is well covered you have a good chance of surviving the maneuver while a full strength frontal assault can be quite casualty heavy.

The difficult bit is to do this quick enough within the scenario's time window.

[sawomi]

Some more tips to learn CMSF:

I. (Basic Training)

- Always play Iron mode right from beginning.

- Start with small rural WEGO Quick Battles against AI, both sides UNCON combatants/fighters, then trow in Syrian SOF, then Mech Forces and Armor and later add Blue.

- Play some 'all random' QB. Don't bother to win, just take the forces you get and try to make out the best of it.

This all will give you a feeling about what is possible to do and what not with all the different weapon systems/unit types/conditions of units+terrain and time/weather

II. (Advanced Training)

- Play scenarios/campaigns against AI. (WEGO/'Real Time' - as you like)

- If you are a CMx1 veteran take some conversion scenarios like 'Chance Encounter' or 'Riesberg' first, if you have played the originals.

- Try to win this all against AI.

III. (study)

- Read the battlefront forums threads about tactics and the available guides you can find.

III. (to the real Front)

- Play PBEM against CMSF players around the globe and try to win. (Good luck!)

[Waaarg]

I would play in vet, but don't be afraid to game it until things start to click. Re-load an attack that you lost half your squad and try again with different tactics. Ask for a cease-fire, scout the map, then use the concepts and strategies from the forums.

The Canadian campaign is harder than either US camp or the UK one. The 2nd mission is rough as PT did an excellent job. The way the mission plays out, even though you may have a massive firepower advantage, it's quite easy to get into situations where you are locally out gunned. And you can spend every round suppressing buildings and root out 10% of the bad guys.

Biggest advice would be to spend a lot of time reading the forums. There's a ton of great info, I learn something new every day. The manual is great as an army reference.

[MeatEtr]

No I certainly would not play in Iron mode for learning purposes. Start off in Basic training mode so you can actually see what it takes to suppress the enemy. Then work your way up.

Heck I never play in Iron mode anyway, you can't see your other units sometimes due to no LOS or C2. So I consider it more of a user interface hassle. Elite is my preferred mode since it is just as realistic as Iron mode minus the players visibility of their own units.

Just keep in mind what the differences are between the skill modes. Details here on page 42-43 of the manual.

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2&Itemid=223