Field Marshal Blücher Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Hitting the ESC key when playing RT pauses the game but allows camera movement and issuing of orders. I hope I read your post correctly, seems like the game already supports what you're asking for. I still enjoy playing WEGO on small maps with a 30min time limit. He's talking about multiplayer. Pausing in RT is only available for single player at present. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Totally off topic, AkumaSD wins the inofficial stoex prize for the best sig line I have seen on these forums. Spot on, made me chuckle! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Totally off topic, AkumaSD wins the inofficial stoex prize for the best sig line I have seen on these forums. Spot on, made me chuckle! The "Um...whut" line? Please share for those of us who dont get it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaSD Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Spot on, made me chuckle! Haha, thanks! Please share for those of us who dont get it. Nothing really to explain. I wish I had something witty to say but I just couldn't think of anything else. I have to admit that your sig made me laugh when I noticed it last night. He's talking about multiplayer. Pausing in RT is only available for single player at present. Bah, yeah, my bad. I guess I didn't read his post correctly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 I don't know, I guess "um, whut?" is just a refreshingly different sig line than all the variations of quotes about the respective member being correct (like my own...), the people who post links to various sites in their sigs (not that I'm against that, mind you), and the folks who use quotes from movies, books etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to deride anyone else's signature, just saying that AkumaSD has managed to phrase a sentiment that made me smile in just two simple words. Aside from that, "um, whut?" is rather often what I find myself thinking when reading some posts in this forum. Like some of the stuff that got a certain member banned the other day, for instance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 stoex... why go there? There are a wide variety of political views on the board, none of which have anything to do with CM. Steve pretty much said that discussion was closed and now you're bringing it up again. Either this is a place to have political discussions or it's not, your saying you don't understand someone's political views is having a political discussion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 and your not having a political discussion ? um, whut? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 I for one had was actually frustrated by how slow RT and originally WEGO battle developed before "the blue line" was brought back. This means that I am still frustrated by how slow RT battles move compared to the "fast forward whizz" in WEGO. Added to that; the amount of time used in RT by me is further increased by my personal inclination to over manage the troops (and even more so now that there is no order delay time). This tendency is tempered by the fact that I can only influence (meddle in) the battle once every 60 seconds (the optimum compromise as far as turn time goes for WEGO if you ask me) and the extra losses that this, in fact realistic, inability to influence the flow of the battle further cuts down on the number of units I have to manage So for me WEGO is in fact much faster than RT and has such an alluring mix of control and thrilling lack of control, that removing it would really kill the CM magic. [slight move away from the subject matter] WEGO however depends on some crucial factors working properly. Such as the, what was it called, battle AI making at least reasonable decisions on things like not opening fire, withdrawing or stopping to fire and solutions to basic needs like being able to dismount during a turn. This worked well, I think, in CM1 but somehow the troops seems slightly less concerned with survival in CM2. Well, perhaps it is a concession to the RT perspective where it is now possible to make those decisions yourself. If so it is would be to the detriment of the WEGO play. In CM2´s current state I feel there really is only one critical factor that has been lost when you compare CM1 to CM2 from a WEGO perspective. That is the problem that you, most of the time, do not know exactly where your squad is going to end it´s move. The little "move end preview feature" showing the approximate position of the squad when giving the move order improved things considerably. However there still is to much uncertainty, for my taste, when it comes to the positioning of the squad compared to the abstract representation in CM where I could always be certain that, for example, the squad was in the trench, the MG would setup properly and there was no tree blocking my LOS. These problems are not as clear in RT but in WEGO you need to be able to trust in the AI to sort this out because the process of micro managing the positioning of an MG is just too time consuming in WEGO if you have to spend a turn for every little change (and this is not me being obsessive, I really think setting up support weapons is much more complicated in CM2 since there are so many things that can go wrong when it comes to positioning, LOS etc). Not sure how this can be solved but one part of me would like to see the return of the "% cover" information and some other tools to help understanding the, shall we say, quality of the squads current position 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 ... In CM2´s current state I feel there really is only one critical factor that has been lost when you compare CM1 to CM2 from a WEGO perspective. That is the problem that you, most of the time, do not know exactly where your squad is going to end it´s move. The little "move end preview feature" showing the approximate position of the squad when giving the move order improved things considerably. However there still is to much uncertainty, for my taste, when it comes to the positioning of the squad compared to the abstract representation in CM where I could always be certain that, for example, the squad was in the trench, the MG would setup properly and there was no tree blocking my LOS. These problems are not as clear in RT but in WEGO you need to be able to trust in the AI to sort this out because the process of micro managing the positioning of an MG is just too time consuming in WEGO if you have to spend a turn for every little change (and this is not me being obsessive, I really think setting up support weapons is much more complicated in CM2 since there are so many things that can go wrong when it comes to positioning, LOS etc). Not sure how this can be solved but one part of me would like to see the return of the "% cover" information and some other tools to help understanding the, shall we say, quality of the squads current position This is, tangentally, one of the reasons I long for the return of moveable waypoints. It would be a lot easier for me to drag a waypoint and check los than to have to replot it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 sfhand, Your criticism of my post is not entirely unfounded, however I think that is mostly due to my phrasing and the fact I posted without menace but also without thinking a lot...let me clarify: I do not nor did wish to engage in any form of political discussion on this forum. What I really meant to say was that I didn't understand why someone would invite trouble upon themselves (like the risk of being banned) by voicing such opinions here in such a fashion. Anybody is free to their opinions in principle, but the choice of where and how to represent them is the line where one's own opinions can become open attacks on other members of society. Which is not ok and never will be. That line was crossed deliberately and so blatantly in the case at hand that it baffled me why anyone would undertake such a trespassing. The spirit of the poster in question made me think 'um, whut?' as opposed to the content of his post. That said, there are also posts where the actual content leaves me in the same kind of confusion - mostly when folks use a lot of military abbreviations or lingo which I simply don't understand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 stoex, FWIW, I didn't think malice was behind your post which is why I asked "why go there". As far as "Anybody is free to their opinions in principle, but the choice of where and how to represent them is the line where one's own opinions can become open attacks on other members of society. Which is not ok and never will be." goes, well, this line is crossed all the time in our society, and not just by Riff Raff. Politics is a dirty business... Hopefully we can agree on the need for moveable waypoints in CM:N! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hopefully we can agree on the need for moveable waypoints in CM:N! With you all the way on that one! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euri Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I recently turned to Wego and found out that (a) I reach victory with considerably less casualties than RT and ( the scenarios' time limit seem now more than enough, while in RT I always felt time was never enough. The reason is that Wego allows me to set up a choreography of maneuvers (so action evolves on all corners of the map) and at the same time forces me to be very-very careful in exposing my troops to enemy fire (in the knowledge that I will not be able to correct a decision sooner than 60 secs after) I believe that 60 secs turn is ideal exactly for those two reasons: allows better coordination - and demands a very careful approach both at the same time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Glad you have forsaken the darkness and returned to the light, grasshopper... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm a fan of playing in real time and using the pause feature liberally to issue orders. It doesn't make for a bad simulation when you consider that it is up to the player to make almost every single decision for every unit on the map. Want your tank to be in a hull-down position? It can't do it on it's own so you have to tell it exactly where to go. In real life the tank commander would do this, squad leaders would make the squad splitting decisions, platoon leaders distribute tasks to the squads, etc. It would be impossible, for me at least, to do all of this without pausing, but I am slow. In other words, the player isn't just in the role of the company or batallion commander, he has to micromanage at lower levels as well. Of course I also like to play wego every now and then for the replays. I too am glad BF put in the effort to include multiple play styles! The issue of being able to instantly give/change orders in RT and the general lack of command delays seems to be brought up time and time again, quite a good explanation Alan, I should use that as my sig To me command delays are a poor fudge. Due to the fact you play all roles it is irrelevant: you are the squad leader. Furthermore, if you were to take command delays to their logical and realistic conclusion you would be sitting in a tent with a map talking on a radio (and surely anything less would be a half-done job and rather gamey), which would not in any way resemble Combat Mission - as a matter of fact I'm pretty sure that has been said a while ago, not sure who by. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The counter argument addresses the inherent gaminess of being able to coordinate an entire battlefield essentially instantly as if everyone is a perfect robot with no confusion, nobody misunderstanding orders, and none of the other variables of RL combat. In this respect many of us believe that having to plan at least 60 seconds ahead is one way to compensate for "God-like" powers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Yeah, what he said. I enjoy WeGo. The argument against WeGo, that it caters to "control freaks", is counterfactual. In WeGo, once I press the "go" button, I am powerless to do anything. I am out of control and must watch what unfolds. RT allows total control. The pause function allows me to micromanage every single unit at every second of battle. "Target there", "Reverse out of danger, now!", "Pop smoke to help your buddy", etc. (RT multiplayer avoids that.) I'm glad both styles are included. Play what you like and let the others do the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The counter argument addresses the inherent gaminess of being able to coordinate an entire battlefield essentially instantly as if everyone is a perfect robot with no confusion, nobody misunderstanding orders, and none of the other variables of RL combat. Isn't that the original argument? Instant orders to all units is unrealistic > you are every unit and currently have to be > ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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