CM:NORMANDY - Vegetation

[Volltreffer]

I brought this up a while back under my previous Username: Götz von Berlichingen but with the Forum issues I have been away for some time.

I have seen some of the early CM:N pics with the temperate climate vegetation and already I am happy that we will be out of the desert.

Steve had said that there were going to be improvements with the vegetation, trees etc... Will they now be 3D instead of RPC that follow the camera? One of the big LOIF's (Loss of Immersion Factors) in CM:SF and I guess any other CM game is the ugly landscape when in a zoomed out aerial view.

There are plenty of game developing companies out there that have created very convincing - low poly trees and bushes - that very much add to the immersion of the game. Achtung Panzer - comes to mind as being great in this area as it can show vast forrests with little impact on frame-rate.

Some of the vegetation in CM:SF does look ok and ground level but I am forever reluctant to zoom out (which lets face it is necessary) as it ruins the immersion. Immersion is king...along with the obvious good gameplay there is to be had in CM games - it will keep you coming back for more.

I do quite a bit of 3D Architetural modelling so I can to some degree sympathise with how large areas can chew up processing power + RAM very quickly - although it would be nice to see if these areas are being looked at to be improved apon etc...

P.S. The same goes for buildings etc...

[panzermartin]

Oh yes. Has this been fixed or improved? Do woods have more volume?

I know its not an easy task to make a landscape looking good from all angles but imo mid distances and iso views should be a priority rather than close up detailed branches. It's also a gameplay thing, I almost miss the CMx1 more predictable woods thickness.

[MeatEtr]

Oh yes. Has this been fixed or improved? Do woods have more volume?

I know its not an easy task to make a landscape looking good from all angles but imo mid distances and iso views should be a priority rather than close up detailed branches. It's also a gameplay thing, I almost miss the CMx1 more predictable woods thickness.

Actually I've barely noticed this weird looking terrain when zoomed out. But of course I'm all in favor for making it look better for CMN.

Although a bit off topic, more about the UI graphics, but can we not have neon green graphic gun/afv icons? Something like Scipio's mods makes so much more sense for CM.

[Volltreffer]

Oh yes. Has this been fixed or improved? Do woods have more volume?

I know its not an easy task to make a landscape looking good from all angles but imo mid distances and iso views should be a priority rather than close up detailed branches. It's also a gameplay thing, I almost miss the CMx1 more predictable woods thickness.

Exactly...!!! Draw distances should be scalable for those of us who have PC's that can handle the extra pixels. Lets face it, its a 3+ year old engine now (albeit always evolving) but I fail to see how most PC's cannot run CMx2 well enough to have long draw distances.

If depth of field was introduced that would save on prcessing power am I right...? things in the distance appear blurred - out of focus at ground level (realistic) and frees up PC power (my assumption).

The density of forrests is another one - again Graviteam have done this very well in Achtung Panzer. Their trees are far from Hi-Res but are very very effective and add alot to immersion.

I know this topic could branch off into any number of sub-topics and fix requests but even things like building damage (inclusive of different stages of damage visually depicted) and rubble could be done better... I would be happy to model it all for free...!!!

[panzermartin]

I was a bit disappointed with the trees in CM:Afghanistan. Surely, CMSF wasnt programmed to portray dense woods etc but I fear we wont see any changes in CM:N either, just different textures. I hope we somehow get shaded 3d trees/bushes.

CM:A:

CMBB:

CMBB looks better because due to the lack of lighting, all things look color balanced.

Cant say the same for CM:A. Terrain is shaded and trees are not. This combined with the disappearing/popping tree syndrom and the distortion of 2d lods gives an ugly result to an otherwise quite convincing visual engine.

[phil stanbridge]

Agree with the above however let's not forget that screenshot you are using there is a seriously modified CMBB. I'm sure CMN will eventually be heavily modified also, although things like shader and lighting and stuff like that do pose some serious technical problems especially with the current revision of ATI and Nvidia drivers and there is no way modders' can resolve that. In some ways it's two steps forward and one step back. That's progress for ya!

[sawomi]

CMA with Hardenberger's Bushes and Tree textures mod

I would say that CMx1 pic is not CMBB but CMAK and the CMA pic is from the demo.

[PaulMG]

Was the CW flag a giveaway?

[Thomm]

If depth of field was introduced that would save on prcessing power am I right...? things in the distance appear blurred - out of focus at ground level (realistic) and frees up PC power (my assumption).

I could be completely wrong here, but I think that DoF involves multiple renders of the same scene from slightly different camera positions. Not exactly a way to save processing power.

Best regards,

Thomm

[sawomi]

That and the UI-map + the whole setting.

But Ali-Baba is not wrong. Graphics could be better. On the other hand, the most important point are the game mechanics in CM, graphics was always second. In the end we must take, what we get.

[phil stanbridge]

I did wonder why Canadians were fighting on the eastern front But I thought it might have been a western front mod for CMBB (which I think exists in some shape or form!).

[Waaarg]

Wow the side by side comparison is quite striking. I hadn't noticed before, and I spend 90% zoomed out

How does the current CMx2 textures compare to the high res ( want to say photorealistic but my memory is sketchy) packs we could DL for CMx1?

[bodkin]

Wow the side by side comparison is quite striking. I hadn't noticed before, and I spend 90% zoomed out

How does the current CMx2 textures compare to the high res ( want to say photorealistic but my memory is sketchy) packs we could DL for CMx1?

CMx1 with high res mods and graphics settings maxed out dosen't compare too badly to CMx2.

CMx2 still suffers a bit with buildings looking rather sterile, I'd like to see the building model come with a base footprint texture which looks like someones actually lived in it, worn foot pads, a little bit of paving etc rather than looking like it's been beamed in by a ufo and no ones ever set foot in it.

[Marc Anton]

Ok here is the "real" CMBB ^^

[LongLeftFlank]

.... I believe there are a few of these here and there in Afghanistan (and at higher altitudes in Syria too -- those cedars are not confined to Lebanon). Seems like those tall poplar-like "Type E" trees could be modified easily enough.

[panzermartin]

To those of you who talk about modified CMAK/CMBB...its not about the mods but about the terrain drawing engine. You can only do so much with textures. Tree trunks and branches are 3d and can be shaded. They look fine. Tree foliage is 2d bitmaps, with no shading apparently. Like brush/grass doodads. Like doodads, what you get is trees that look like bilboards and bright against a shaded hillside, or dark agaisnt lighted grass. Also woods in the distance look very weak. I'm sure buildings will be great in Normandy, there is no engine limitation to make nice 3d cottages, and Steve said that they will add characteristic types (barn etc) this time. But foliage?

Overall I think the game looks good ..some things like curved roads, better SFX would be nice but with proper vegetation I bet the difference would be really really big.

[AslakH]

I won't bet any money on better foliage and buildings in CMN.

I love Achtung Panzer. It's awesome. Graphically it's a little better than Steel Fury (yes, it is based HEAVILY on SF).

The gritty feeling adds to the immersion. But I do not feel like I'm in control of the units. They do whatever they feel like some times. When tanks brew up - kick ass. Watching the Popovs run from the tank like a human candle. And the nice physics. CMSF has NO physics in-game. I do not count ballistics. They are coded, and add nothing to immersion.

P.S

Achtung Panzer has weather.

I still prefer CMSF. Because it is way cooler.

I also would be hugely surprised if the railroad tracks were more than just textured representations in CMN(looking at the last bones), because that might have worked in 2001, not 2010. But who knows? Other than the beta testers and devs.

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Volltreffer]

Im having the same flashing light (night battles) with my Nividia drivers at the moment that others have been having so im just hoping that is sorted before worrying about the graphics on release...

Im confident that with the new engine - and European (temperate) climate, we will have a far superior looking game than the CMx1 series. Granted it may take a bit of hi-res modding to things like grass, undergrowth, trees etc... to see it really come of age.

I just hope that we can at last have the foliage density that is required to create a realistic normandy setting - not least of all the birds eye views of maps to handle better and not have strange shapes.

[Thomm]

CMSF has NO physics in-game.

Vehicle suspension animation involves physics.

Grenades bounce correctly off of terrain and structures, if I remember correctly.

Best regards,

Thomm

[phil stanbridge]

Im having the same flashing light (night battles) with my Nividia drivers at the moment that others have been having so im just hoping that is sorted before worrying about the graphics on release...

It won't be sorted I'm afraid Strictly speaking it's not a BFC problem, it's an Nvidia/ATI one. Something to do with the Open GL routine. Either Nvidia/ATI pull their fingers out and fix their drivers, or BFC start to use DirectX instead of Open GL. Maybe the latter will happen, but not for some years I doubt. Only option for us is to stick with it, or use an older card; which will support older drivers. I use a new 460GTX so I'm stuffed!

[flammenwerfer]

Any official word on this...?