Concerning multiplayer...

[Dennis50]

I'm trying to figure out what is going on here concerning multiplayer. Charles went to the trouble of coding in multiplayer and it plays very well in real time. Not sure where to start here. I'll start with PBEM... this is just me but, I can not get into pbem, prolonging a game days if not weeks in 1 minute increments. I guess some people do it because of a supposed lack of time... but you will see some post that they are good for 2 or 5 turns a day. If you can do that many turns a day why not do it real time and get the battle over with. The reason I don't want to do pbem is because 2 days, 3 days from now I have my mind on something completely different. When I'm in the mood to play I want to play right now to conclusion. Do other people want to only do pbem because they want the option to study the board for as long as they feel is needed before they take their turn? Is it that serious to them? My history of multiplayer is as follows... use to play alot falcon 4.0 back in the day until I got tired of doing the falcon dance. Obviously that's real time, no pbem. Used to play 688i/hunter killer with an online group called the seawolves. Again real time, no pbem. Also played with the wolfpack club playing sh3/destroyer command. Again real time, no pbem.

I'm just curious. Is no one here interested at all in playing this game real time? If that's the case then I know I'm wasting my time.

I'm truly interested in other peoples thoughts on this. So please do post here and give your thoughts on the multiplayer aspect pro or con.

I know that the force selection for QB is kinda hokey. So I been playing around with red vs. red in QB to get as close to a balanced force as possible. I like it.. it plays out very well. I think I should give credit here to markezra because I think he did alot of the work on the quick battle maps.

Anyway, it just seems to me that one part of the game is really going to waste... when it actully is alot of fun.

Discuss please.

Regards,

Gunz

[MeatEtr]

It's not that most prefer playing PBEM with a scenario taking weeks to months to complete. It's simply a matter of convenience. It's much easier and quicker firing up a PBEM and emailing it than trying to line up a time to meet. Especially with differing time zones. Have you tried PBEM much? It's not that bad, you'll get use to it and it'll grow on you.

Also it hurts that there's no MP lobby or browser to quickly and easily find an opponent for real time. Something that BF acknowledges in order to give MP a much needed shot in the arm. Just don't know where and when it will be coming though. Besides, having a opponent finder forum is a bit archaic.

Things will change though when CMN ships with the newer QB. Since QBs in CMSF are hit or miss, QBs were popular among CMx1 TCP/IP players. So since we're getting a bigger and better QB, you'll see more MP going on.

[Jonny(FGM)]

When I first heard about how PBEM works (with CMx1) i think i actually laughed, now i really appreciate it.

It allows me to have multiple games on the go at once and to play them at my convenience. I still play a lot of CMx1 games TCP/IP but with the lack of a WEGO mode for CMSF that makes TCP/IP a no go for me

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Hehe, my initial feelings were much the same. I thought CMx1 PBEM was bafflingly old fashioned at first. Until I started playing it and the ability to play turns in my own time actually grew on me.

And my play style much improved. In TCP play and even rapid return PBEM I was prone to impulsive tank charges (and on one embarrassing occasion even a StuG rush!) whereas a PBEM with a leisurely pace would be a more carefully considered affair. Some time to mull things over did me the world of good. And much of this mulling over you could do away from the computer. I'm still a seat of the pants player at heart. I'll not spend hours observing the terrain and studying every option very carefully, no min-maxing of every order or for hours on end.

Oh, the many strategies thought up under the shower, at work or doing the grocery run. The amount of fun could really be stretched out. I've spend entire workdays being happy because I knew that I really humbugged my opponent in the turn I sent just before leaving the house. Eight hours of enjoyment out of a single turn... can't beat that with real time play!

I prefer Real Time while wailing on the AI, but I finds it can quickly become too stressful to do it multi-player. No pause means I feel under the gun for the entire duration. That really needs to be made more attractive. Out of the current possibilities PBEM is pretty much the only way I'd consider playing CMSF.

But I don't really understand GunzAbeam's beef. There's several clubs where he can get his multi-player jollies, even RT. So why do you feel it's going to waste if you like RT so much?

[Scipio]

Hehe, my initial feelings were much the same. I thought CMx1 PBEM was bafflingly old fashioned at first. Until I started playing it and the ability to play turns in my own time actually grew on me.

And my play style much improved. In TCP play and even rapid return PBEM I was prone to impulsive tank charges (and on one embarrassing occasion even a StuG rush!) whereas a PBEM with a leisurely pace would be a more carefully considered affair. Some time to mull things over did me the world of good. And much of this mulling over you could do away from the computer. I'm still a seat of the pants player at heart. I'll not spend hours observing the terrain and studying every option very carefully, no min-maxing of every order or for hours on end.

Oh, the many strategies thought up under the shower, at work or doing the grocery run. The amount of fun could really be stretched out. I've spend entire workdays being happy because I knew that I really humbugged my opponent in the turn I sent just before leaving the house. Eight hours of enjoyment out of a single turn... can't beat that with real time play!

I prefer Real Time while wailing on the AI, but I finds it can quickly become too stressful to do it multi-player. No pause means I feel under the gun for the entire duration. That really needs to be made more attractive. Out of the current possibilities PBEM is pretty much the only way I'd consider playing CMSF.

But I don't really understand GunzAbeam's beef. There's several clubs where he can get his multi-player jollies, even RT. So why do you feel it's going to waste if you like RT so much?

I second every word of that!!!

However, a dedicted server to support and organize both RT and PBEM H2H matches directly from ingame would be very good.

[Pandur]

i am not posting a lot here at the moment, but i feel like saying something here.

seems to me i am one of the last people still asking for TCP/IP WEGO(with replay) as this was the perfect mix for me.

it was a direct H2H game, no game drawen out over a few days or a week, it was one session of CM up to 8 or 10 houers long, in WEGO with a human opponent. i liked that A LOT.

now in CMx2 there is only play by carrier pigeon or real time. real time is just, well real time. i played, up to now, about 5 smal to medium RT CMx2 games. well it was not bad as i was craving for CMx2 multiplayer but it was not exactly fun either.

and PBEM, i tried to start one once, but after takeing 20 minutes to get both players to the setup phase, i was already annoyed.

RTwP in multiplayer is no substitute for TCP/IP WEGO with replay.

in the end i think TCP/IP WEGO with replay was more played in CMx1 then people think. especially in LAN setups like i did with a friend of mine, and it hurts CMx2 MP that it is not included.

with the options we got now to conduct MP games, i can more then understand why CMx2 is rather dead in multiplayer since it was released.

dont get me wrong here, i am still playing CMSF against the somewhat questionable scripted AI at times, becouse i like the game!

but i have no option to play a relaxing and fun MP game and this frustrates me a lot about CMx2 so far

and yea, i want more cowbell too! i better say this to keep MeatEtr from posting the traditional pic after i whined about TCP/IP WEGO

[Jonny(FGM)]

WEGO(with replay) as this was the perfect mix for me.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000

I don't get it, we have WEGO, we have TCP/IP, surely WEGO TCP/IP is basically PBEM but instead of saving a file it just gets sent straight down the internet?

[Pandur]

well the official word is that the file size is more or less tenfold to CMx1 and so, transfers take longer then in CMx1.

but i would say internet connections are tenfold too these days, so this is more played on time i think, the size is not relevant as you need to upand download it in PBEM too.

i guess its the usual BFC bottleneck. it takes 4 to 6 month to program and test it, and at that time charles cant do much other stuff.

thats why we still dont got it in my eyes.

[Scipio]

I'm playing 'British Mettle' by PBEM right now. Files are nearly 40 MB sized... In small battles, files are sized ~1-5 MB. Both players must have a really fast internet connection, or the file exchange will take 10 times longer as the turn...

[Jonny(FGM)]

Surely the same volume of data is sent during RT battles though?

And it'd still be quicker than trying to do it PBEM

[Blackcat]

"seems to me i am one of the last people still asking for TCP/IP WEGO(with replay) as this was the perfect mix for me."

Maybe only a few people are still asking for it, but that is because the rest of us have bowed to the inevitable - we ain't going to get it.

Battlefront took the view a long time ago that they would make more money by appealing to the real time crowd. Maybe they were right, we will never know. Anyway, it was a commercial decision and, as Steve has pointed out before, those of us who played TCP/IP WEGO were a small minority of their customer base.

It is a pity, but there it is.

[TheVulture]

Surely the same volume of data is sent during RT battles though?

Probably not. WeGo PBEM turns include the replay data and the map data, in addition to the orders data, since they have to contain everything necessary to play the turn from that point. RT games might well only need to transmit the map data once at the start, and then transmit the information necessary to update it as orders are given. Presumably there is some kind of CRC-esque sync cheque every so often as the game unfolds to determine wether a full resync is needed, but if it isn't then the volume of data could be relatively small.

To put it another way, WeGo has to transmit everything that RT does, and in addition has to transmit the complete map every 60 seconds of game time, plus the replay data. There may well be other differences as well, depending on how things are coded.

[zwobot]

Can RT multiplayer games be paused? I don't mean saved like a singleplayer scenario (which would be cool too) but only paused for a few seconds if there's too much happening at once and you need a moment to consolidate...

[Pandur]

@Blackcat

...we ain't going to get it.

well, good news is, it is on the "list". but last time we heared about it it was said that it will be delivered in two parts. first TCP/IP WEGO without replay(bit pointless in my eyes) and later on, they bolt the replay onto the TCP/IP WEGO option.

only problem, it takes ages. but i learned today that they hired the "first second programmer" which is a great step forward to get charles to code TCP/IP wego

[Blackcat]

@Pandur,

I must have missed the announcement you refer to. I agree WEGO without replay is pointless, in fact it would be unplayable (imagine playing a mission like Pooh from the Marines campaign when you have a minute's worth of action taking place in multiple parts of a large map).

If CMx1 style TCP/IP WEGO happens I shall be over joyed, but I shan't be holding my breath.

[c3k]

Add my vote (for whatever that's worth) to the TCP/IP WEGO list. Yes, with replay would be better...

Ken

[stoex]

Another +1 to TCP/IP WeGo

[troupierLEON]

count me in! TCP/IP WeGo GO!

[Tactical Wargamer]

i am not posting a lot here at the moment, but i feel like saying something here.

seems to me i am one of the last people still asking for TCP/IP WEGO(with replay) as this was the perfect mix for me.

it was a direct H2H game, no game drawen out over a few days or a week, it was one session of CM up to 8 or 10 houers long, in WEGO with a human opponent. i liked that A LOT.

RTwP in multiplayer is no substitute for TCP/IP WEGO with replay.

in the end i think TCP/IP WEGO with replay was more played in CMx1 then people think. especially in LAN setups like i did with a friend of mine, and it hurts CMx2 MP that it is not included.

with the options we got now to conduct MP games, i can more then understand why CMx2 is rather dead in multiplayer since it was released.

dont get me wrong here, i am still playing CMSF against the somewhat questionable scripted AI at times, becouse i like the game!

but i have no option to play a relaxing and fun MP game and this frustrates me a lot about CMx2 so far

and yea, i want more cowbell too! i better say this to keep MeatEtr from posting the traditional pic after i whined about TCP/IP WEGO

Couldn't agree with you more!!!!

[Tactical Wargamer]

Can RT multiplayer games be paused? I don't mean saved like a singleplayer scenario (which would be cool too) but only paused for a few seconds if there's too much happening at once and you need a moment to consolidate...

I agree a pausable or variable speed RT is acceptable in my opinion. Last I heard it was way down on the list or not at all

RT MP is one speed fits all :eek:

[nelly]

"To be or not to be"... that is the question .. to be able or not to be able to become a multiplayer is my question..

i`ve written some and read many posts on the subject and even with the latest cmsf the issue of multiplayer still arises. why is it that with the number of players out there nobody has taken the issue further and questioned the ability and accessibility of the multiplayer mode .. i mean if you buy an electrical appliance and it doesn`t work, you take it back and they fix it or give you one that does work . the cm series is advertised and sold with multiplayer function but in reality this seems to this player to be so complex a deal its unattainable. after 6 years of trying to join a mp game i finally decided to accept defeat and move on. i`ve been told that various sites exist and i`ve tried to access them .only to find out that they are members only and you have to be sponsored by a member...sub forums exist somewhere on the battlefront site ,i`ve been told.. really?? couldnt find those .. it seems to me that although people do manage to get it to work its not really an option for someone whose not so computer literate.. why so complicated .. i mean i`m not after an equity card i just thought it might be fun to test out my ideas and tactics against other like minded people.. the concept of click button and play must have been something i dreampt of.. but i`m sure i`ve seen it somewhere.. i can accept defeat i just dont like retreating..

[nelly]

"To be or not to be"... that is the question .. to be able or not to be able to become a multiplayer is my question..

i`ve written some and read many posts on the subject and even with the latest cmsf the issue of multiplayer still arises. why is it that with the number of players out there nobody has taken the issue further and questioned the ability and accessibility of the multiplayer mode .. i mean if you buy an electrical appliance and it doesn`t work, you take it back and they fix it or give you one that does work . the cm series is advertised and sold with multiplayer function but in reality this seems to this player to be so complex a deal its unattainable. after 6 years of trying to join a mp game i finally decided to accept defeat and move on. i`ve been told that various sites exist and i`ve tried to access them .only to find out that they are members only and you have to be sponsored by a member...sub forums exist somewhere on the battlefront site ,i`ve been told.. really?? couldnt find those .. it seems to me that although people do manage to get it to work its not really an option for someone whose not so computer literate.. why so complicated .. i mean i`m not after an equity card i just thought it might be fun to test out my ideas and tactics against other like minded people.. the concept of click button and play must have something i dreampt of but i`m sure i saw it somewhere.. i can accept defeat i just dont like retreating..

[MarkEzra]

Make mine a double!

[Jonny(FGM)]

after 6 years of trying to join a mp game i finally decided to accept defeat and move on.

I presume you were trying to play CMx1?

Over at www.thefewgoodmen.com and www.theblitz.com CMx1 is still played actively and both are free to sign up with no sponsorship system. Not too many people play CMSF there but i expect a lot will be when CMN comes around

[slug88]

I presume you were trying to play CMx1?

Ahem........

and even with the latest cmsf the issue of multiplayer still arises.