Of new Syrian unities for CMSF?

[sfhand]

Sfhand. I think Dr Who type brain controlling alliens would make a funner campaign, but go ahead, have fun. ...

I'm not sure why you feel this way, but surely you've noticed that many of the complaints about Syria as an opponent center around the quality of the Syrian equipment and troops. My plans will add some balance to the fight in a way that I think will make for a more enjoyable and challenging experience. Hopefully you'll try it before passing judgment

[Sequoia]

What I meant was alliens would take over the brains of the Blue Force of your choice thereby providing all the reason you need for a backstory for a blue vs blue campaign.

I agree more blue vs blue scenarios would be a good thing. I'm sure we'll get others doing them once the Germans come in the next module and people will want to refight WWII with 21st century weapons.

[sfhand]

Forgive me, I'm a little slow... but it seems to me that your Dr. Who idea would best be implimented after the Space Lobster module is released.

[GSX]

Sure, to my knowledge there are no (confirmed) plans for giving the Syrians additional kit. But the Blue forces haven't been furnished with anything they don't (or wouldn't) have.

I'm sorry Detrich but this is just not true. The battle in Syria takes place in 2008. Some of the kit the Brits use, specifically the Typhoon aircraft were not available then.

As someone else pointed out, where did the Syrians get all those T-90s from.

If its fictitional anyway, why not have a bit of licence to make it a bit more interesting, within the bounds of reality.

[Battlefront.com]

GSX,

If its fictitional anyway, why not have a bit of licence to make it a bit more interesting, within the bounds of reality.

Er... which is why the Syrians have T-90SAs, Marines have M32s, etc. The key thing is "within the bounds of reality". Of course it is a gray area, but it does mean staying as close to actual reality as possible. Some of the requests people have come up with over the years are about as close to reality as me walking on the moon sometime this afternoon

Steve

[Damian90]

So do we see T.U.S.K.-II? :-)

First kits starts apeer in late 2008 IRCC.

[flamingknives]

I'm sorry Detrich but this is just not true. The battle in Syria takes place in 2008. Some of the kit the Brits use, specifically the Typhoon aircraft were not available then.

As someone else pointed out, where did the Syrians get all those T-90s from.

If its fictitional anyway, why not have a bit of licence to make it a bit more interesting, within the bounds of reality.

Were they not? My information indicates that they would have been available from the middle of the campaign.

[Sequoia]

GSX,

Some of the requests people have come up with over the years are about as close to reality as me walking on the moon sometime this afternoon

Steve

Well that's a bit of an exageration. It's more like your chances of winning this weekends lottery. The wildest things I can remember people asking for is the EFV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditionary_Fighting_Vehicle and some Swedish vehicle and, of course, motorcycles and instead of horses, camels.

P.S oh and I asked for this http://www.supacat.com/products/atmp/ but I wasn't really serious.

[Sergei]

Were they not? My information indicates that they would have been available from the middle of the campaign.

Also it's to be kept in mind that an impending big war would probably have resulted in some projects and acquisitions being finished months ahead of time. In the reality that we know, the Western powers spent year 2008 patrolling against guerrillas and terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the CMSF reality, however, they were busily arming themselves for an invasion of Syria.

[Dietrich]

I'm sorry Detrich but this is just not true. The battle in Syria takes place in 2008. Some of the kit the Brits use, specifically the Typhoon aircraft were not available then.

Is the Eurofighter Typhoon the only aircraft/vehicle/weapon available to Blue in CMSF which would not have been available to the real-life BLUFOR in the time frame which CMSF simulates? Either way, I'm perfectly willing to stand corrected.

Perhaps one reason (albeit a small one) why people gripe so much about the Syrians not having more kit is because Blue seems to always have top-notch equipment. Admittedly, this applies most to Blue tanks -- in other words, I don't recall having played a scenario with plain ol' M1A1 HC models rather than M1A2 SEPs or USMC M1A1 FEPs.

As someone else pointed out, where did the Syrians get all those T-90s from.

If its fictitional anyway, why not have a bit of licence to make it a bit more interesting, within the bounds of reality.

So the availability in CMSF of T-90s and BMP-3s (which the Syrians could have but don't actually) is proof that Red should be furnished even more kit it doesn't really have?

[Sivodsi]

So the availability in CMSF of T-90s and BMP-3s (which the Syrians could have but don't actually) is proof that Red should be furnished even more kit it doesn't really have?

Sure, why not? The principle has been broken.

I think some people are complaining out of a sense of 'fairness'. Blue gets all this new kit to play with, and compare this to Red who has same old same old.

I don't think any extra kit Red gets has to be the latest equipment but just something to surprise us with, y'know, like a truck or or or... whatever equipment it is not too far outside the bounds of likelihood that Syrians could have (like the T90 & BMP3). It just seems so one-sided adding to the Blue side only.

At least, if I was complaining that is why I'd be complaining.

In business terms, perhaps BFT should consider that not adding to the Red forces is not catering to those who like to play Red vs Red (who would find little reason to buy a Brit module), and the guys who like such battles are probably arguing the most vociferously for extra Red content.

[Secondbrooks]

I try to think that Red should get something, but outside elephants, trucks and ammo caches i can't think of anything which really would add something valuable to game. Basically whole Syrian army has been represented already doesn't it? Well they may have excluded some Gray Beard Division with training like 'conscript - 10', but that really DOESN'T add anything for Syrian side. They can have fairly modern kit, T-90, BMP-3s, Kornets, RPG-29s, body armors etc.

Sure it would be nice to get all of those under same battalion under same organic structure, which i'd like to call Dream Battalion. Right now i can have all those but as they are distributed bit to everywhere, sharing no information with each of other etc.

I agree that i see CMSF's current progress to be one-sided... But then again i can't really say that BFC should add more vehicles etc, i'm interested more about campaigns and missions, from official point of view (Red vs Red is interesting, Red vs Blue is even more!). However i don't expect to get those.

[Mad Mike]

The battle in Syria takes place in 2008. Some of the kit the Brits use, specifically the Typhoon aircraft were not available then.

I beg to differ ... at least with the wording.

Maybe we should say "operationally capable" instead of "available", because for sure Typhoons were available in the Air-to-Surface role (11 Sqn) by July 2008. They just finished a final exercise deployment to the US (Nellis), where they specifically practised Close Air Support and Precision Strike capabilities.

Given the rather pragamtic approach to operational employment in the UK forces, I think it is entirely imaginable (without suspending any disbelief) that the RAF would have used Typhoons in this hypothetical conflict. Typhoons were/are certainly not 100% capable yet, but by July 2008 especially the british Typhoons had a basic CAS capability which could have been employed.

[GSX]

I beg to differ ... at least with the wording.

Maybe we should say "operationally capable" instead of "available", because for sure Typhoons were available in the Air-to-Surface role (11 Sqn) by July 2008. They just finished a final exercise deployment to the US (Nellis), where they specifically practised Close Air Support and Precision Strike capabilities.

Given the rather pragamtic approach to operational employment in the UK forces, I think it is entirely imaginable (without suspending any disbelief) that the RAF would have used Typhoons in this hypothetical conflict. Typhoons were/are certainly not 100% capable yet, but by July 2008 especially the british Typhoons had a basic CAS capability which could have been employed.

My bold, which is readily available info I presume?

As it hasnt actually happened, the Tornado GR4 being the primary air asset in Aghanistan, then I dont think it could have last year. Reaching an operational capability in a Jet isnt the same as buying an extra bit of kit and slapping it on under a UOR (Urgent Operational Requirement). There is a certain amount of working up for the aircrew etc which is why you wont see the Typhoon in action even this or next year I suspect.

However,as you dont actually see the Jets in the game, any old plane can drop a bomb....

[Mad Mike]

My bold, which is readily available info I presume?

Yep, pretty much, please see the link below:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/06/23/224826/eurofighter-typhoon-proves-close-air-support-credentials-for-raf.html

As it hasnt actually happened, the Tornado GR4 being the primary air asset in Aghanistan, then I dont think it could have last year. Reaching an operational capability in a Jet isnt the same as buying an extra bit of kit and slapping it on under a UOR (Urgent Operational Requirement). There is a certain amount of working up for the aircrew etc which is why you wont see the Typhoon in action even this or next year I suspect.

Well, it wasn't / isn't UOR, this capability was part of the core development program for the british Tranche1 Typhoons. It is actually an "austere" capability, which leaves some things to be desired .. but it can be used to some degree, certainly for dropping LGBs or GPS-guided ammunition as shown in CMSF.

And you can believe me, i'm actually fully (or to be more precise painfully ) aware that a full capability is not the same as just slapping some store under a wing and take a picture of it while flying around Northwest England (for example).

So I agree with you that the british Tornados / Harriers are much more mature and reliable platforms for the CAS role.

[flamingknives]

My bold, which is readily available info I presume?

http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/defencenews/equipmentandlogistics/typhoonsdeclaredreadyforgroundattackrole.htm

As well, for another source.