Small Arms & Ammo Types

[Wengart]

Is there a reason it is not updating the MG ammo tab?

Although the squad shows that it has 7.62 ammo the MG still says it has no ammo.

[MikeyD]

I don't understand the question.

British (are we still talking about the British?) infantry squads don't have any 7.62 weapons, just 5.56. The support squads do have the L96A1 sniper rifle which fires a 7.62 round and ammo load for that does appear in the 7.62 ammo list. When the fire support squads in the TUM WMIK dismount with their GPMG their 7.62 ammo load tops out in the list. If you acquire additional ammo, even for weapons you don't have, the appropriate ammo list rises.

Things do get slightly more complicate with Syrians. There's the short carbine 7.62 for the AK and the long high-power 7.62 for the mg. So both weapons have to share the 7.62 column. But the game doesn't cobble everything together, it still keeps track of specific ammo types.

[MarkEzra]

Is there a reason it is not updating the MG ammo tab?

Although the squad shows that it has 7.62 ammo the MG still says it has no ammo.

Look at the first pic. Notice that Infantry ammo is full in the 1st slot, while the second slot (MG ammo) is empty...

[pad152]

There isn't any. Hasn't been any since the game was released.

No fooling, this was a joke! Would it really have killed someone to put the info needed in the tool tips, jeez?

L85A2 - 5.56

L7A2 - 7.62

etc.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Look at the first pic. Notice that Infantry ammo is full in the 1st slot, while the second slot (MG ammo) is empty...

I'm pretty sure you are incorrect.

That second slot is for the 7.62x39. Expend all an MGs ammo, then reload from a BMP. That second bar will go up, but the MG shouldn't fire. The MG ammo is tracked in the ammo tab of the unit, not the ammo bars.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

No fooling, this was a joke! Would it really have killed someone to put the info needed in the tool tips, jeez?

L85A2 - 5.56

L7A2 - 7.62

etc.

I will certainly agree that the tooltips are severely and indeed even surprisingly underused.

But I also hope you agree that you could've framed it in a more neutral way. No-one is expecting angelic behaviour here but your comment comes across as needlessly hostile. If the Adam episode taught us anything it is that we should try a bit harder to get along with one another.

Courtesy doesn't cost you anything, god dammit!

[Wengart]

I just know when I get ammo for the Marines MMG the tab to the right of the mg picture will say like 500. Whereas it remains empty for the Syrian MMG.

[Pandur]

There is no Marine or Army Manual in the Demo, Duh!!! The info isn't in one manual but three different ones. How is someone just trying the British demo to get all of the manuals, huh? Next time try learning how to use a spell check next time, Ok!

as it was said here there is the CMSF manual and the CMBF manual in the demo. so i dont see wheres the problem. again, all you need to know is in there.

btw. you are the first wich gives me the "you are right but you suck in english, so you must be wrong" argument. funny that one attacks a non native english speaker about his english, while he gives you valuable information

thats not nice

9mm for pistols...

its 7.62x18 for the syrian pistols guess its a Makarov, no western 9mm Para weapon.

MarkEzra;

now, you said you can reload the MGs, but as i see it in the sceens you made it didnt worked.

MG´s have their ammo displayed in the "ammo tab" where vehicles have it displayed. after you resupplied the MG it still has "nothing" in the ammo tab.

so i stongly suspect that your MG team got 7.62x39 ammo now, and if they would have AKMs instead of AK74´s they could use it. but as it looks on the sceens you just gave em ammo they cant even shoot with their rifles.

did you tried to deploy the MG and tried to get it to shoot with area fire or so? iam quiet confident that it wont shoot, no matter how much 7.62x39 you give them in the syrian vehicles

[Wengart]

Actually, I just tested it, and the MG did not fire after refilling on 7.62 ammo. I have some pictures, but I am having trouble uploading. Anyway, if you attempt to have the MMG fire it will not. Even after refilling with 7.62 ammo.

[Pandur]

no need to post pics its like that since v1.0, i dont know why people still confuse this at times.

[MarkEzra]

First Thanks to Wengart and Pandur. The Syrian MG teams will not fire re-supplied 7.62 ammo. It will fire it's rifles only when when resupplied with 5.45 ammo (naturally). Wegart's point about Blue MG teams re-supply slot may be part of this problem. I've reported this as a bug. Thanks again. Here's the pic

The Inf 5.45 re-supply does work as advertised. Here's the pic

Inf resupply of 7.62 Does not fire (naturally

I'll post a final pic when I check out the resupply for Blue MG teams but I expect Wengart observation to be correct.

[TempV]

its 7.62x18 for the syrian pistols guess its a Makarov, no western 9mm Para weapon.

PM (Pistolet Makarova) shoots 9x18 mm rounds. They are similar but not identical to Western 9x18 Police. Sometimes these cartriges are called 9 mm Makarov.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x18mm_Makarov

[Pandur]

TempV;

lol crap, my bad for mixing up the longer 7.62 of the Tokarev with the X x 18mm round of the PM. really could have checked that befor i posted.

MarkEzra;

thanks mark, took quiet some time to spott this, even after threads where made about this month ago.

while we are at it, since we lack 7.62x54 rounds in the vehicles we cannot resupply the red snipers either. i guess if this is a bug, its buggy for the MG´s AND snipers

[Peter Panzer]

Nice work Wengart, Pandur and Mark.

Any chance the fix for this can be slipped into v1.20 given that it hasn't been rolled out yet or is it far too late for that sort of thing?

[YankeeDog]

Don't want to disappoint you, but I'd put a week's pay on that it's too late for any new fixes to make it into 1.20. If they've already put the 1.20 demo out, they've moved on to packaging the patch and Brit module, and post-gold issues like making sure it's compatible with various versions of CMSF (Gamersgate, Paradox, etc.). In fact, given that the demo is already out, I think it's likely that BFC wanted to have 1.20 out by now, but some sort of unanticipated compatibility/packaging problem is slowing up the works.

But I wouldn't give up all hope; I'm guessing there will be a 1.21 not too far in the future. There's usually a few issues that slip through the cracks whenever new items and features are released. These will need to get cleaned up.

[Pandur]

i am also pretty sure that its much to late to add a new ammo type into the vehicles and test this in just a few days.

but i dont mind, its spotted, so it will be fixed sooner or later.

[MarkEzra]

i am also pretty sure that its much to late to add a new ammo type into the vehicles and test this in just a few days.

but i dont mind, its spotted, so it will be fixed sooner or later.

Yep... I'll keep a close eye on this.

[LukeFF]

Can I make a request here for the ammo description for the American M2 .50 cal machine gun? It's always bugged me that, no matter the vehicle, the ammo description is always given as 12.7mm. All of the US service manuals I have read (including the "Dash-10") refer to the cartridge as .50 BMG. Never have I ever heard of .50 BMG being referred to as "12.7mm" by American forces. Thus, I think caliber description should be re-worked as follows:

-American units: .50 BMG

-British/other NATO units: 12.7mm

[Wengart]

I would think keeping a standard name across all armies would be easier for the player to understand. Especially if they are not a very gun/ammo savvy person.

On a side note, does anyone know of a scenario that mixes forces. Such as Army and Marines vs. Syrians?

[slug88]

On a side note, does anyone know of a scenario that mixes forces. Such as Army and Marines vs. Syrians?

There are a few towards the end of the stock Marines campaign. Not aware of any individual scenarios that do this, however.

Looking forward to some joint UK-US action at some point during the BF campaign! I'm sure the two forces will link up at some point during the invasion.

[Bulgaroktonos]

So wait a minute. Who can get resupplied by the 7.62 ammo in the Syrian BTRs? If it's not the venerable 7.62 x 54r, the only other Soviet round it could possibly be is 7.62 x 39, but does anyone in the Syrian Army use that? And moreover, why would a BTR have stores of two different rifle rounds?

[c3k]

Gents,

For whatever it's worth, nice catch, good job sticking with it despite some unhelpful comments.

Something I think would help both the players and the developers would be a FULL description of ammo. Not just "7.62mm" but "7.62x39mm", or "5.56x45mm", or "5.45x39", etc., etc. Why? Well, it would ENSURE that the ammo being grabbed matches up with the ammo the weapon uses. I would heartily endorse a tool-tip feature which identifies the weapon and the ammo that weapon uses. (In fact, I have endorsed such a UI change in the past.)

This ammo naming change would help the developer to ensure that the weapon is linked to the proper ammo. (I do NOT have any idea if that's the problem related in the screenshots, above.)

I don't know if this would help the ammo resupply problem with the various sniper rifles. (If I am wrong, I apologize.)

This is NOT meant as a complaint, merely a suggestion for IMPROVEMENT.

Thanks,

Ken

[Wengart]

Right now the 7.62 ammo is used for AK-47 family of weapons. Along with a few LMG's such as the RPK. While 5.45 is used for the AK-74 family.

[akd]

So wait a minute. Who can get resupplied by the 7.62 ammo in the Syrian BTRs? If it's not the venerable 7.62 x 54r, the only other Soviet round it could possibly be is 7.62 x 39, but does anyone in the Syrian Army use that? And moreover, why would a BTR have stores of two different rifle rounds?

Let's compare a Reserve Mechanized Infantry Platoon to a regular Mechanized Infantry Platoon. Both are mounted in BTR-60PBs, and the ammo stored in the BTRs does not change based on the type of unit or dismounts carried. For both reserve and regular, the BTRs carry 1728 x 5.45mm and 352 x 7.62mm that can be acquired by dismounts (they also have over 2000 7.62x54R for the coax, but this can't be acquired).

The HQ units make for a good comparison.

Ignoring the RPG, Reserve Mech. Inf. Platoon HQ has:

3 x AKM (7.62x39)

1 x RPK (7.62x39)

1 x AKS-74 (5.45)

1 x SVD (7.62x54R)

It starts with one bar of ammo in the first (unbelted) column, and 1/3 full in the second (belted) column. If 5.45mm is acquired, the first column increases. If 7.62mm is acquired, the second column increases. It needs all three ammo types for resupply. The SVD will stop firing independently from the other weapons in the unit. Once all ammo is exhausted, if 7.62mm is acquired from the BTR, the AKMs and RPK will resume firing, but the AKS-74 and SVD will remain silent. The unit can acquire two of the three needed ammo types for resupply from the BTR, but the BTR carries so little 7.62x39, that the unit can only keep up fire after resupply for a few minutes at most.

Regular Mech. Inf. Platoon HQ has:

4 AKS-74 (5.45)

1 x RPK-74 (5.45)

1 x SVD (7.62x54R)

It starts with the first (unbelted) column half full, and the second (belted) column empty. If 5.45mm is acquired, the first column increases. If 7.62mm is acquired, the second column increases. It needs only two types of ammo for resupply, but the BTR only carries one (5.45mm). The second column acquired 7.62mm goes unused as there are no 7.62x39mm weapons in the unit. The SVD will stop firing before the ammo in the first column is exhausted. After all ammo is exhausted, if the unit acquires 7.62mm from the BTR, no weapon in the unit will resume firing. Clearly the ammo supply for the SVD is tracked, but not displayed in the UI. The unit does not use ammo from the second column.

[Bulgaroktonos]

So it's 7.62 x 39. Gotcha. An area where things can be improved I guess.