When are we going to get a Forum on the New Game?

[Killroy]

I'd like to see a new forum for the Normandy game! Sort of tired of this gibberish of SF since it's old now.

[MikeyD]

In my humble opinion they opened the CMSF forum about a year earlier than they ought and the result was it blew up in their face.

Opening a CM:Normandy forum early will probably (1) kill off the CMSF forum prematurely, and (2) allow for the construction of ever more elaborate fairy castle fantasies about what the finished game will be like. "What? No flying monkeys in the Normandy game? But we've been discussing the inclusion of flying monkeys on the Normandy forum for the past six months!"

[Sivodsi]

flying monkeys in the Normandy game?

Don't you mean 'refresh monkeys' and I think you'll agree they've been around for quite some time.

[GSX]

In my humble opinion they opened the CMSF forum about a year earlier than they ought and the result was it blew up in their face.

Well its now just 5 short months until we will all be playing CM-2 ww2 Westfront. Perhaps a good point to open the new forum would be the 3 month point in September?

I agree that when the ww2 game forum is opened then the SF one will die. I also think that when CM ww2 arrives SF will be tucked into a drawer and forgotten by all involved.

Hopefully the game will be out before the Xmas Holiday.

[Zatoichi]

I'm not so sure about CMSF being forgotten by all involved, I'll keep playing modern stuff and ww2 stuff concurrently.

I'd also not bank on CM ww2 arriving when it was originally slated - with no outside publisher forcing a release date set in stone, I think we're back to the good old 'when it's done' design philosophy.

Just my 2 pennies.

[hcrof]

I also think that when CM ww2 arrives SF will be tucked into a drawer and forgotten by all involved.

I do get quite annoyed by people who keep claiming that CMSF is a 'bad' game. I am not aiming this at you in particular GSX but please could you die hard CMx1 guys please accept that there are people (like me) who played CMx1 and quite enjoyed it but where blown away by CMSF. When CM normandy comes out I will no doubt enjoy it very much but I have a greater interest a in modern/cold war setting than WW2 so I will continue to play CMSF.

Each group of players have different tastes and in my case I will only abandon CMSF when CM:Modern warfare 2 comes out. I don't knock the multiple shortcomings in CMx1 so could you guys please stop claiming that noone likes CMSF?

\rant over

That felt better

[Pandur]

i dont think that i will play CMSF too much after CM Normandy is out i wont let it go totaly but well, bring on WWII !!

[Chainsaw]

I will probley play it 50/50. the first few weeks after Normandy release it will ofcourse be normandy only as is new and cool, but when the new and cool starts to fade off I will most likely go back to CMSF as I really dig the modern settings.

And as long as that stupid Peng challenge thread exists this forum cant die... :eek:

[Sivodsi]

And as long as that stupid Peng challenge thread exists this forum cant die... :eek:

If we're really lucky the Peng will quickly and painlessly transfer itself to the new forum, leaving this one mercifully free... at least that's what happened to the CMx1 forums when this one opened up.

[Scipio]

How about a forum for CM:A?

[BlackMoria]

If we're really lucky the Peng will quickly and painlessly transfer itself to the new forum, leaving this one mercifully free... at least that's what happened to the CMx1 forums when this one opened up.

Actually, I am hoping that there will be no new forum unless those who want the new forum promise to ask the Peng'ers over to play in the new sandbox.

Then we can bid them a proper farewell as we frog march them to the curb....er.... give them a farewell party.

[Scipio]

How about an own Peng forum?

[Wengart]

I will continue to play CM:SF concurrently with CM:N. Mainly because I have discovered the wonderful world of PBEM, and it is rather easy to play multiple games at the same time.

However, I see no reason for a CM:N forum until the release is within a week or two, and BFC wants to build some more hype. Until then there would be no reason for a CM:N forum.

But I will have to agree, the release of CM:N will most likely herald the end for most conversation on the CM:SF forums. As the questions about Tac AI, and other features intrinsic to the game engine would move there.

[bodkin]

How about an own Peng forum?

Yes buried out of sight in the bowells of the Battlefront forums, somewhere where it can't make the place look untidy.

[panzermartin]

Once Normandy comes out, CMSF will evaporate. I mean you would still like to play QBs with hordes of humvees vs BMP-2s, or GAZs artillery spotters vs Strykers? Its not only about the equipment, new QB system and all those gameplay improvements that wont make it in CMSF but will be present in CMN would render the first obsolete. Modern equipment might hold it on surface for a while but I guess it will still appeal mostly to military personnel and not to a casual wargamer who is more interested in tactics and competitive gameplay, than recreating realistic but boring convoy ambush and textbook uninspired asymmetrical MOUT situations.

[Zatoichi]

Nope. I will enjoy CMSF for the foreseeable future, especially once the British and NATO modules have been released.

I am not ex-military, I don't play QBs especially, and I will play CMSF and WW2 stuff concurrently. I like the tactics the modern setting enforces, and I have plenty of competitive games with friends via PBEM which are not ambushing convoys or even asymmetrical MOUT.

Admittedly, these forums will slow down once the WW2 forum is active and the game released, but that doesn't mean everyone will stop playing just because you will.

[Lethaface]

Modern equipment might hold it on surface for a while but I guess it will still appeal mostly to military personnel and not to a casual wargamer who is more interested in tactics and competitive gameplay, than recreating realistic but boring convoy ambush and textbook uninspired asymmetrical MOUT situations.

If you have only played boring convoy ambush and textbook uninspired asymmetrical MOUT situations, that must be another game then the CMSF (incl. marines) that I have played.

I find it strange how many lovers of the WWII genre feel they need to express 'the fact' that CMSF or modern warfare wargames are not 'real' wargames and are total cr@p. (not only directed against you, ali-baba, you are more like the messenger that gets shot )

It's even becoming mildly annoying.

Unless specifically asked for I wont go in detail about the depth and tactical interesting situations I have encountered in the wargame CMSF. Ofcourse I have also played boring convoy ambushes and uninspired MOUT situations, but if that happens I press 'ESCAPE + CTRL-Q'. There are plenty of very inspired non-boring scenarios available for CMSF, in my opinion. If you dont share that opinion, fine But dont tell others what they are supposed to like.

The same thing would be serving all WWII games off as utterly repetitive; come on! how many WWII games have we seen untill now? Its all the same old boring tactics, shoot the tiger in the ar$e or you will lose all your pathetic ill constructed British tanks to its *mighty* KWK L70 88MM high velocity gun. Etc etc...

Now actually I find WWII games very attractive and can't wait for CM:N, I love using the Tiger's 88 to take out those silly crusaders And that time after time after time.

But I guess its easy to find reasons (read fallacies) why a game about a particular type of theater, sucks. It's a dead beaten horse by now on this forums so there is no absolutely no worth in posting your opinion about how awfull CMSF is. OFC you can post your opinion another time if you like it, but please don't turn it into a fact.

[Runaway!!!]

Western front.

Eastern front FTW!!!

[GSX]

I do get quite annoyed by people who keep claiming that CMSF is a 'bad' game. I am not aiming this at you in particular GSX but please could you die hard CMx1 guys please accept that there are people (like me) who played CMx1 and quite enjoyed it but where blown away by CMSF. When CM normandy comes out I will no doubt enjoy it very much but I have a greater interest a in modern/cold war setting than WW2 so I will continue to play CMSF.

Each group of players have different tastes and in my case I will only abandon CMSF when CM:Modern warfare 2 comes out. I don't knock the multiple shortcomings in CMx1 so could you guys please stop claiming that noone likes CMSF?

\rant over

That felt better

No offence taken at all. My conclusions are based soleley on what I read here. Steve stated in no uncertain terms that CM ww2 would be out in 2009 and so I can only take his word for that.

Then theres the problem of support. Theres only 1 coder and excellent as he may be there will always be a finite limit on his time and so I imagine that time will be spent coding ww2 features and not SF ones. 2.0 will therefore more than likely be the final patch and NATO the final module. SO BF will not be supporting the game as such.

On to the guys here. Most of the scenario designers will no doubt be turning their talents to ww2 and I forsee the already paltry amount of scenarios for SF drying up too.

So with no new modules and a limited amount of player support, a QB system that does not lend itself much to anything interesting, I honestly believe that SF will slip quite quickly into that bottom drawer we all have for wargames that we once played and get taken out once in a while.

Longevity for any game I believe rests with the community and if that isnt large enough or interested enough the game surely cant last to more than a few guys who play the same scenarios and campaigns over and over. Thats not for me.

So, and getting back on topic, I dont see much activity in the SF forums once the ww2 one opens and its probably best for BF to hold off opening one for as long as possible.

[General_solomon]

I don't know about you guys/gals but i am looking forward to play what if scenarios when all the cmsf modules come out. especially, US vs NATO forces.

CM:N will be awesome, but i don't think i will ever uninstall my CMSF for a long while.

so, even if BF does create another forum for Normandy, i will still perform my obligatory daily troll of this forum once or twice a day.

you guys thought the refreash monkey was bad, you have not met the troll monkey.

"I'll take my answer off the air"

[panzermartin]

If you have only played boring convoy ambush and textbook uninspired asymmetrical MOUT situations, that must be another game then the CMSF (incl. marines) that I have played.

I find it strange how many lovers of the WWII genre feel they need to express 'the fact' that CMSF or modern warfare wargames are not 'real' wargames and are total cr@p. (not only directed against you, ali-baba, you are more like the messenger that gets shot )

It's even becoming mildly annoying.

Unless specifically asked for I wont go in detail about the depth and tactical interesting situations I have encountered in the wargame CMSF. Ofcourse I have also played boring convoy ambushes and uninspired MOUT situations, but if that happens I press 'ESCAPE + CTRL-Q'. There are plenty of very inspired non-boring scenarios available for CMSF, in my opinion. If you dont share that opinion, fine But dont tell others what they are supposed to like.

The same thing would be serving all WWII games off as utterly repetitive; come on! how many WWII games have we seen untill now? Its all the same old boring tactics, shoot the tiger in the ar$e or you will lose all your pathetic ill constructed British tanks to its *mighty* KWK L70 88MM high velocity gun. Etc etc...

Now actually I find WWII games very attractive and can't wait for CM:N, I love using the Tiger's 88 to take out those silly crusaders And that time after time after time.

But I guess its easy to find reasons (read fallacies) why a game about a particular type of theater, sucks. It's a dead beaten horse by now on this forums so there is no absolutely no worth in posting your opinion about how awfull CMSF is. OFC you can post your opinion another time if you like it, but please don't turn it into a fact.

Who said CMSF is awful? Sorry for sounding like a thick head but its more than a matter of taste here and its not only a WW2/modern debate but a deeper one. CMSF more or less was a testing/training ground for the upcoming big thing which isnt other than the family of WW2 games. It was and still is a WIP. CM WW2 would be a WIP too but with a smoother curve from what I can tell.

I'm happy too, playing the game but funnily I'm more happy installing each new patch. For instance I waited for 1+ year to get a working TCP/IP function. I dont see how this would stand on even ground with the Normandy title which I expect to be an excellent game out of the box and superior in EVERY SINGLE aspect of gameplay.

Here is a shortlist of features promised for CMN that WONT make it in CMSF :

-Authentic and fully researched historical setting.

-Rather balanced oppositions and hardware.

-Complete new QB system with cherry pickin and other goodies. Now we get some funny combos of TOW-2 vs hordes of conscript AKs and the march of the light UAZ brigade.

-Both sides will receive the same care when desinging missions.

-Possible stock campaing from the "bad guy" perspective.

-Improved inf AI, animations etc.

-AT guns

-Ground AAA

-On map Mortars

-Hit texts

-kill stats

-Slower pace+less lethal weaponry = more unpredictability

-Random weapon allocation among squads

-More varried terrain

-More variety in buidlings

-More vareid weather

-Dynamic Water

-Bridges

-Complete overhaul of the vegetation graphics. No more disappearing trees once shooting starts or when drawing vehicle paths.

-Improved FX graphics.

-Unlimited potential of expanding the series covering the whole WW2 period.

-Pausing for online games (at last)

-Possibility to find more than one buddy online at the same time to play a TCP/Ip session.

-Possibilty of ladders and tournaments and all this stuff that is missing from CMSF and makes playing against the AI feel like watching paint dry.

And the list might well get much bigger once the game is released. I dont see how someone who thinks this would be a better product belongs to the WW2 vs Modern type of camp. I was one of the most enthusiastic regarding the shift towards modern. Middle east and all this cool russian (firstly) and then US hardware ought to be presented in a wargame. But now its time to go back to traditional values :-)

[Scipio]

Once Normandy comes out, CMSF will evaporate. I mean you would still like to play QBs with hordes of humvees vs BMP-2s, or GAZs artillery spotters vs Strykers? Its not only about the equipment, new QB system and all those gameplay improvements that wont make it in CMSF but will be present in CMN would render the first obsolete. Modern equipment might hold it on surface for a while but I guess it will still appeal mostly to military personnel and not to a casual wargamer who is more interested in tactics and competitive gameplay, than recreating realistic but boring convoy ambush and textbook uninspired asymmetrical MOUT situations.

I have no general problem with the setting and equipment in CMSF, but since I favour PBEM-QBs, I agree that the game engines technical weaknesses in regard of my special preferences may kill CMSF for me.

[hcrof]

-Slower pace+less lethal weaponry = more unpredictability

I am of course looking forward to all of the things on your list but I have to argue the point here. Playing PBEM (which I do almost exclusively) means that what you can't see is much more important than what you can.

In WW2 you notice the Tiger when it shoots (and misses). When playing a human in a modern setting you cannot afford to make that kind of mistake so you start having to play mind games with your opponent to force him into a situation where you shoot first. Unhinging an enemies defence with maneuvre is more possible with the faster and more powerful modern weapon systems. Likewise, a single well placed ATGM can deny the enemy huge areas of the map. He doesn't know where it is and until he does he has to change or delay his whole battleplan.

To put it as a terrible analogy I would say CMSF is poker to CMBB's chess. Slightly faster paced, less is revealed to the player but (IMO) more fun

Its a different style of play and I would argue it is just as unpredictable or more so than WW2 and that is why I love CMSF.

Edit: I will however reserve judgement on CM: Normandy, I am judging WW2 by CMBB and I hope to be pleasently surprised by the gameplay of the new game

[panzermartin]

I am of course looking forward to all of the things on your list but I have to argue the point here. Playing PBEM (which I do almost exclusively) means that what you can't see is much more important than what you can.

In WW2 you notice the Tiger when it shoots (and misses). When playing a human in a modern setting you cannot afford to make that kind of mistake so you start having to play mind games with your opponent to force him into a situation where you shoot first. Unhinging an enemies defence with maneuvre is more possible with the faster and more powerful modern weapon systems. Likewise, a single well placed ATGM can deny the enemy huge areas of the map. He doesn't know where it is and until he does he has to change or delay his whole battleplan.

To put it as a terrible analogy I would say CMSF is poker to CMBB's chess. Slightly faster paced, less is revealed to the player but (IMO) more fun

Its a different style of play and I would argue it is just as unpredictable or more so than WW2 and that is why I love CMSF.

Well I get your point. I dont like PBEM so I'm limited to my RT experience which multiplies the pace of the game-no time really for mind games, impossible to do this with no pause and no TCP/IP wego. But doesnt sound a lot different than CMBB's mind games with AT guns and tank ambushes. The difference is in CMBB unpredictability continued even when you revealed your assets, with lengthy shot exchnanges, ricochets etc. Luck could turn the advantage into disadvantage, terrible sometims but huge fun too

[Lethaface]

Who said CMSF is awful?

Ali-baba,

The hint at "boring [...]" and "uninspired [...]" makes me feel something is awful

I surely agree with you that CM:N will (or should at least) be "better" then CMSF if you look at the simulation aspect, primarily because of new features added after CMSF. The historic proven realism will be more accurate too, but I'm not sure how much it matters. How much difference would it make to the game if CMSF was 100% based on actual real life data? OFC it would rock to know every mm is correct, but given that BF.C will be at least very close, it doesn't really change the tactics you can use using the perhaps-not-fully-realistic-depicted-ingame-equipment.

If the modern theatre would be the second title in CMx2 and CM:N the first, I guess all those new features would have gone in CMSF first and something similar could have been said about CM:N.

I guess and hope there will be more balanced scenarios and more scenarios from the 'RED' point of view in CM:N. Fully with you there, actually. Ofcourse, over time the interest in the CMSF forum/game will decline. Everything ages and especially a new piece in the family (CM:N) will pin some customers to the new title away from the old. However, I guess there will be plenty of people still playing CMSF after CM:N comes out. Everything bores after a period of intense interest, so I guess it will be nice to use a M1A2 SEP TUSK or whatever after your 1000st sherman was cracked in a big explosion killing all crew.

The thing that mildly annoys me at times is that quite a number of people on this forum with a favor for WWII balancing, realism, etc (with is fine obviously), try to find (obsolete collections of) facts why a WWII game is by definition better then any modern warfare game and bring them back on the forum (as fallacies) why CMSF is lesser a wargame, merely a simulation or just nothing compared to the Holy WWII CM.

I don't understand why all of that energy is invested into derogative posts about a game they do or do not actually like(?), instead of for example wondering how good CM:N will be, playing another CMx1 game or watching private ryan for the zillionth time

Let me have fun with my puny poor Syrian regular forces trying to take out that unrealistic depicted Abrams tank using a meagre RPG-7

I do ask myself why the reserve forces are so often my opponent as Blue, or my forces as Red. Bring up that elite Special Forces, T-90's, AT-14's and BMP-3's and not even a open terrain map would be easy for Blue. OFC Red still has to use different tactics, if your not the strongest you have to be the smartest.

And bring that RED campaign, someone With that new 4 hour limit the slow artillery is a lesser problem then before.

I hope to play CMSF a long time still and at least want to give someone a beating using The Holy Dutch forces that will rise to their throne in the Nato module. Now that will be definitely better then any other game ever; i wonder why BFC still makes repetitive WWII games, while everyone in the world (except the few WWII historicians) will clearly want to be playing the mighty ol' Dutch