What are the aircraft loadouts?

[Guest Guest]

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[c3k]

Oh, my. Hmmm, I think you need to do a forum search under "c3k" and "User Interface". There, you'll find several threads devoted to issues such as these. None of them have the information you seek. We (the royal "we") can only hope that this information will become available to the player in future iterations of the game.

Good luck,

Ken

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[MikeyD]

Generally speaking, there's a description of aircraft loadouts on page 181 of the v1.10 manual. And I really mean 'generally'. Though aircraft loadouts are specific and researched, I don't recall ever seeing hard data on what's going on "under the hood" with aircraft in the game.

[Battlefront.com]

Aircraft Loadouts are not affected by Equipment at all. They are purely affected by the type of aircraft, it's bias towards infantry or armor, and it's "weight" in terms of power (i.e. Heavy, Medium, and Light). These factors are seen in the Editor. The "weight" determines, if relevant, the size of the munition and also the quantity. The "heavier" the bigger the bombs and the more of them.

True enough, there is no indication of what the loadouts are in terms of x number of y munition. This was initially by design because it's not relevant since you, the player, can't micromanage what is released. However, it's clear that there is some utility to having this information. Unfortunately we haven't got around to changing the UI so it's visible to the player. It's on our list of things to do

Steve

[akd]

Aircraft Loadouts are not affected by Equipment at all. They are purely affected by the type of aircraft, it's bias towards infantry or armor, and it's "weight" in terms of power (i.e. Heavy, Medium, and Light). These factors are seen in the Editor. The "weight" determines, if relevant, the size of the munition and also the quantity. The "heavier" the bigger the bombs and the more of them.

True enough, there is no indication of what the loadouts are in terms of x number of y munition. This was initially by design because it's not relevant since you, the player, can't micromanage what is released. However, it's clear that there is some utility to having this information. Unfortunately we haven't got around to changing the UI so it's visible to the player. It's on our list of things to do

Steve

Yes, but can't you just tell us? While it would be nice to know during the mission in some pretty UI form, this information would be far more helpful when using the editor. I'm beginning to suspect the dog ate that list...

[Aacooper]

The pilot would obviously know the loadout, but what about the commander on the ground (i.e. the player)? CMSF would have the best commo between the plane and the company commander, but even then would you know how many cannon rounds the helicopter has? With the current system it's obvious when the 500lb bomb is dropped, and that's fine. I think it would give the player too much information to say x of y munition. Once it's CMx2 Normandy, the player would be happy to notice what type of airplane is flying around.

[Apocal]

Doh. Ok. If I knew what I was looking at when stuff exploded I may be able to just figure this out trial and error... but I don't know a 1000 pounder from a 500 pounder when they boom.

Yes, you do.

500lbs - "That was pretty cool."

1000lbs - "Whoa!"

2000lbs - "HOLY ****!"

[JonS]

The pilot would obviously know the loadout, but what about the commander on the ground (i.e. the player)?

CAS a/c check-in with the ground control party, and advise what sort of 'splody fings they're carrying.

[theFightingSeabee]

Yeah, the ground guys calling it in will know what's coming, whether it's a 500 pounder, a 2000 pounder, or a strafing run. Certainly I, as the commander, want to know what's being dropped.

[c3k]

Yeah, the ground guys calling it in will know what's coming, whether it's a 500 pounder, a 2000 pounder, or a strafing run. Certainly I, as the commander, want to know what's being dropped.

Exactly. CAS is not run by the seat of their pants. There are procedures. One of those procedures is for the CAS aircraft to tell the ground controller what ordnance they are carrying as well as how long they can stay on station.

I'm glad to hear that BF.C is going to allow that information to be seen by the player.

Thanks,

Ken

[Clavicula_Nox]

Yes, you do.

500lbs - "That was pretty cool."

1000lbs - "Whoa!"

2000lbs - "HOLY ****!"

Yeah, but I don't want to sit around for 6-9 minutes hoping for a HOLY **** and getting a few cannon rounds instead.

[Dietrich]

I don't want to sit around for 6-9 minutes hoping for a HOLY **** and getting a few cannon rounds instead.

Or worse: sit around for 6-9 minutes hoping for a 2000-pounder and then get . . . one less tick on the fast-mover's JDAM counter.

While playing the second mission of Field Marshal Blücher's Operation Hangman campaign, at least twice (I don't remember if it was more times than that) a fast-mover's status read "attacking" and the (presumably) JDAM counter went one tick lower, but no bomb landed. Admittedly, the briefing did say something about the two CAS jets being able to provide only one bomb each. (Something to do with fast-movers' skill level, perhaps?) But when an air support asset "attacks" and apparently expends ammo but no ordinance lands on the map, what is that supposed to represent/simulate? A dud bomb? A so-off-target-it's-not-even-on-the-map fire mission? A scrubbed run? I'm puzzled.

Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, though, I'm quite satisfied with the effectiveness of my support assets, both artillery and air. (But I suppose it helps that I play as Blue most of the time.)

[Clavicula_Nox]

That's happened to me a few times. I hear "30 seconds" wait....wait...wait...and nothing happens.

[Smaragdadler]

Nazi Ufos. I'm pretty sure.

[Apocal]

Yeah, but I don't want to sit around for 6-9 minutes hoping for a HOLY **** and getting a few cannon rounds instead.

That is really annoying, I agree.

[MikeyD]

A dud bomb?

Wow, I've never seen a dud bomb in the game. but I wouldn't put it past them.

If this was CMx1 I'd suggest the attacking plane was scared off by groundfire. I wonder if CMSF models this 'under the hood' without telling anybody. Like if you're going against decent experienced units like Republican Guards the enemy would be more likely to keep your air assets at bay. Its almost impossible to tell by 'anecdotal evidence' since we get air asets every five scenarios (maybe) and don't a tally of who the aircraft was attacking.

[JonS]

AIUI, 'empty' planes will go through the motions of carrying out an attack. You can access the UI, the radio squarks all occur, but ... nothing falls out of the sky.

IIRC, BFC did this deliberately as they felt that having the green a/c icon grey-out after running out of ordnance would be too confusing (along the lines of "hey - where'd my planes go!?"). I'm not convinced that the current solution is any less confusing.

OTOH, CAS is a bit of a funny beast. I was advised a while ago that - when integrating CAS or AH into fireplan - it's best to get them in as early as possible, since if you try to include them later the pilots will likely bollix it by turning up early, or late, or not at all. So, get them in and out before the infantry start moving, and use dependable assets (direct fire wpns, mortars, artillery) for time- and timing-critical support.

[MikeyD]

My air assets do a superb job of repeatedly attacking abandoned civilian autos! Or the closest Blue unit.

[Clevinger]

Yeah, even an Abrams with a FBCB2 and an IFF equipment can be nailed if the main gun pokes inside the kill zone of a Cobra...

Those pilots really hate armored pussies

[BlackMoria]

Yeah, even an Abrams with a FBCB2 and an IFF equipment can be nailed if the main gun pokes inside the kill zone of a Cobra...

Those pilots really hate armored pussies

You don't even have to be touching the CAS kill zone.... just being outside it puts one in danger of munitions applied to your precious whatever, as I found to my chagrin when one of my HMMVs got served up a 500lb 'party cracker' in 3:10 to Yuma. Vehicle was 100m outside the CAS zone.

And I hold my breath anytime I have Apaches working the map. Apache rocket attacks have very large 'beaten zones' and since one can't control the direction they attack from, so being even 500 metres outside the CAS area can mean one can take a stray rocket in the pie hole.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

And I hold my breath anytime I have Apaches working the map. Apache rocket attacks have very large 'beaten zones' and since one can't control the direction they attack from, so being even 500 metres outside the CAS area can mean one can take a stray rocket in the pie hole.

Unless you lurked on these forums for a very, very long time before joining, you probably missed one of the greatest thread titles of all time: "Apache Rocket Attack: Drunken Shotgun of the Gods."

They toned down the inaccuracy a couple of patches ago, but yeah, rockets are still somewhat inaccurate.

[YankeeDog]

Unless you lurked on these forums for a very, very long time before joining, you probably missed one of the greatest thread titles of all time: "Apache Rocket Attack: Drunken Shotgun of the Gods."

They toned down the inaccuracy a couple of patches ago, but yeah, rockets are still somewhat inaccurate.

Yeah, the accuracy of hydras is much better now.

But I still wish they'd somehow give an indication of the run-in angle for Hydra strikes. AIUI, for weapons like the Hydra, that have a much larger error in range than in bearing, run-in angle is very carefully coordinated between the pilot and the forward observer, precisely to avoid hitting friendlies. At present, in CM, you can't even tell what the run-in angle is, let alone control it.

I can live without being able to control run-in angle. At times, factors like terrain and enemy AA threat restrict the possible run-in angle so it's not entirely realistic to allow the player to set the run-in angle to whatever he wants. But I'd at least like to see what it is, so I can move my units off the line of bearing before the strike comes in (or just not use the strike at all, if it's impractical to get my units out of the bearing line).

[Dietrich]

I've never seen a dud bomb in the game, but I wouldn't put it past them.

In the course of playing a recently released scenario, I used my Forward Observer (with comms to all higher echelons and "small x" comms to the air asset, estimated response time 8 minutes) to call the on-station Harrier for a "Heavy" attack on a tall, narrow building on the far side of the map. The FO had direct LOS to the target building. Three times the Harrier called "Dash One is in the pod" and the FO replied "Roger, cleared hot", yet each time no bomb was dropped. The Harrier's status read "Attacking" each time. Why the repeated scrubbed attack runs? What might have been going on "under the hood" to have caused the Harrier to actually not attack? (I don't remember if any of the Harrier's ammo indicators ticked down with each "attack".)

Also, helo rocket inaccuracy is such that if the target is small enough, all rockets in a given salvo might well miss. Thus helo rocket attacks seem better suited for suppression and a modicum of casualty-inflicting rather than doing much damage.

[General Jack Ripper]

I was playing Hold the Line a few days ago, and to be honest after 45 minutes of constant Apache and A-10 attacks there was only 2 instances of air strikes going awry. I used area targets on average about 150m in front of my positions, and while some attacks came very close to my trenches, only two Hydra runs by apaches actually hit my own positions, causing a few casualties. (Good thing I had my squads split into teams and spread out!)

For the most part, the CAS came in on target, and was very precise. The Hydras do have a good size spread, but they used rockets mainly against infantry and light vehicles, so only a couple rockets had to hit the target to knock it out.

Anyway, I guess that's not entirely on topic, but that was a really fun fight those Apache drivers really earned their pay on that scenario. I also learned to stagger the CAS request so there will always be a couple Apaches doing runs without any wait time.

I think I'll go play that again now...

(/StrangeRanting)